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Updated 2023-07-12: Hello, Guest! Welcome back, and be sure to check out this follow-up post about our outage a week or so ago.
An open letter to the 68kMLA community...
- Thread starter ~tl
- Start date
Christopher
Well-known member
I came around to learn more about the "golden age" of macs. Small talk is for the feeble. 
I joined here originally to try getting help with my old Powerbook that I have since gotten rid of. I then later came back to brag about my recent conquests, and then I found out what a pleasant community it was, so I kept posting. Though I do agree it has gone downhill a little bit here, and proof of that is that you admins have to enforce rules more strictly, which would be a stupid move if things were working out fine for you guys beforehand. My personal opinion is that the times these forums were the best for me would have to be October 2008 - January '09, if you could get /everything/ back to the way it was then it would be just great.
Cheers.
Though I do agree it has gone downhill a little bit here, and proof of that is that you admins have to enforce rules more strictly, which would be a stupid move if things were working out fine for you guys beforehand. My personal opinion is that the times these forums were the best for me would have to be October 2008 - January '09, if you could get /everything/ back to the way it was then it would be just great. Cheers.
II2II
Well-known member
well i have kinda been away for a wee while as far as active posting - outwith the RC channel anyway.
golly whats to be said - what happened?
there was always banter in each thread by people; you were in essence talking to another person about the repair or problem in question - over time you get to know 'the person'. oftentimes a problem becomes a repeated post between two or three people and everyone else is a spectator - so be it and let folk belether when doing it - its their thread not yours.
hijacking threads is a different matter however. if the thread wanders that's a different thing.
an 18+ forum? WTF?! - for porno pics and the use of the word f@ck? why?
what rules do you want - state them and leave it at that.
banning software requests?
the old machines live and die by the old software - we absolutely should be passing it along to each other for FREE always and forever, that's the point.
Intellectual property be damned, both that machines and the software dies if folk cant get at it. liberate what in the end?
finally - this conversation has came up time and time again over the years - as i recall - usually there is a balance between the buffoons - as i class myself - and the serious folk. the balance surely is out of whack if this post is needed.
its a computer forum - we are all sad geeks - folk come here to talk about old computers - hang about for a while and relationships develop - people talk bollox when in a relationship - other folk can look away - the odd (polite) swear word is not going to kill anybody, even if they are 10 years old.
there you go - my rant on the issue. i have many fond memories of here, some great help was offered and while infighting has always also been a feature, this seems daft.
flame on...
golly whats to be said - what happened?
there was always banter in each thread by people; you were in essence talking to another person about the repair or problem in question - over time you get to know 'the person'. oftentimes a problem becomes a repeated post between two or three people and everyone else is a spectator - so be it and let folk belether when doing it - its their thread not yours.
hijacking threads is a different matter however. if the thread wanders that's a different thing.
an 18+ forum? WTF?! - for porno pics and the use of the word f@ck? why?
what rules do you want - state them and leave it at that.
banning software requests?
the old machines live and die by the old software - we absolutely should be passing it along to each other for FREE always and forever, that's the point.
Intellectual property be damned, both that machines and the software dies if folk cant get at it. liberate what in the end?
finally - this conversation has came up time and time again over the years - as i recall - usually there is a balance between the buffoons - as i class myself - and the serious folk. the balance surely is out of whack if this post is needed.
its a computer forum - we are all sad geeks - folk come here to talk about old computers - hang about for a while and relationships develop - people talk bollox when in a relationship - other folk can look away - the odd (polite) swear word is not going to kill anybody, even if they are 10 years old.
there you go - my rant on the issue. i have many fond memories of here, some great help was offered and while infighting has always also been a feature, this seems daft.
flame on...
As abandonware goes, to put it simply as TL said, we're a public forum, not a private club.
Abandonware can be traded in private clubs because the copyright cop organizations can't google filenames and find a hotline server.
Abandonware can not be traded on this board because the copyright cop organizations can google filenames and find things here.
I've been here longer than most, 7 years. I'd say that if there's any reason you don't want the forum to change, it's just because we're not as lenient as we have been in the past. My thoughts on this are that years ago we had a great community, the rules were pretty similar, so I suspect a lot of it is just based on who is around at any given time, and how they behave.
If you think the forum is on a downhill decline, what I'd do is actually evaluate your own behavior on the forum, maybe you're not the model of forum perfection that you should be talking about.
Abandonware can be traded in private clubs because the copyright cop organizations can't google filenames and find a hotline server.
Abandonware can not be traded on this board because the copyright cop organizations can google filenames and find things here.
I've been here longer than most, 7 years. I'd say that if there's any reason you don't want the forum to change, it's just because we're not as lenient as we have been in the past. My thoughts on this are that years ago we had a great community, the rules were pretty similar, so I suspect a lot of it is just based on who is around at any given time, and how they behave.
If you think the forum is on a downhill decline, what I'd do is actually evaluate your own behavior on the forum, maybe you're not the model of forum perfection that you should be talking about.
that was a little off don't you think? My comments were general statements and you feel the need to turn it arou d and blame the issue (in a back handed way at that) on my behaviour?
What aspect of my behaviour are you suggesting is a problem?
Why did you feel the need to make this personal?
I have two things to say. Firstly, this letter seems to be making things worse, not better. Secondly, the Lounge should simply be nuked. It's one of the biggest problems with this forum - it's where people disrespect each other, post a load of stuff most of us are not interested in, and generally it attracts the wrong sort of people. It's rather clear that the members of this forum want to discuss old Macs. As such, there is no reason for a Lounge - we could do without it quite happily.
Mars478
Well-known member
Access to the Lounge should be optional. It is still a part of this community, If we were to nuke the lounge imagine how many more sub-forums we would have to make. But on the other hand nuking the lounge would make it strictly Apple and *nix stuff. Thats what we want correct? Maybe we could start to remove access to the lounge with existing users able to post in the lounge and new ones not able to, and over time the lounge gradually should become irrevelant in a forum about vintage Macintoshes.
LCGuy
LC Doctor/Hot Rodder
He wasn't explicitly aiming his comment at you, he was aiming it at everyone who thinks the forums are going downhill.
I personally think it would be quite a shame to see the Lounge get nuked, as a community united by interest we do need an area where we can relax and talk about things that are not related to Macs. I've been a member of quite a few forums over the years and this is the only one where people have had issues with an Off-topic forum like the Lounge. If people evaluate their behaviour, and maybe think before posting, and take responsibility for their actions, we wouldn't have the problems that we do. Ideally, members should be able to self-moderate their posts, and think about what they're saying before they say it, and think about how others will interpret and respond to their posts, and think again as to whether they really should post. This is how the forums used to work, and how they should still work.
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
Here's my take on it: I've been here as an irregular for almost as long as anyone but the founders who broke off from the MacAddict forums to pursue their infatuation with the old iron. The barracks Lounge has ALWAYS been a place for all kinds of strange technological info, current events discussion, and personal information exchange. IMHO, what goes on in the Lounge has kept the 68kMLA alive and well as an active posting community. Many offbeat types may even choose to join and begin collecting the old iron just for the kind of fellowship available here.
If you want a vision of what this place will become with a lounge that's off limits to visitors and devoid of the trials and tribulations of everyday life, just take a look at 'fritter! The forums over there appear to be terminally ill, the postcount abysmal, many of the most knowledgeable active members conspicuously MIA, while here, the COMMUNITY remains active and interesting, on topics strictly technical and those simply of human interest.
It has been the internet fora such as these that have, almost singlehandedly, destroyed the MUG COMMUNITIES in many places. People didn't join NYMUG just for the technical info available, they came for social contact at a physical clubhouse and to general meetings to socialize just as much, or more-so, than the speakers, the shareware library floppies and Mac paraphernalia, and the occasional presentation/demonstration, by Apple's and the Software companies' reps, of the most recent hardware and software releases.
The barracks, 'fritter and other sites became the new, virtual manifestations of the physical clubhouses and the Lounge and "remember outdoors" of the social aspects of the, once vibrant, Mac User Group COMMUNITIES. I'd hate to see this COMMUNITY go the way of the MUGs and 'fritter, which has thousands of "visitors" who are there for the content, but do not deign to join in the once vibrant forum community over there.
As an aside, the founding forum mods didn't quite know how to handle this lunatic old guy who seemed to know more about peripherals and how to get the most out of the old iron than anyone they'd run across, and could Google up info faster than almost anyone else. They also couldn't quite figure out what to do with the amazingly creative and endearingly oddball creature we all affectionately labeled "the maniac." So what did they do . . .
. . . IIRC, they created new fora and made the two of us mods, if not on the same day, within a very short period of time. With my new access to the War Room, I discovered this info and the thought processes that went into maintenance of this place as well as the vision of the founding few. Some have wandered off, some return occasionally, and some disappear completely for years only to reappear, and re-up again to become the constant contributors they had previously been, to this vibrant and helpful COMMUNITY!
In my case it was this COMMUNITY of eager youngsters and their personal banter in the lounge that had convinced me to enlist. I chose a username that reflected my long experience with CPUs of every sort and dove right in! The kids were avidly collecting the Macs that were the bread and butter of my sign business in NYC, and the ones I had never been able to afford. So I began collecting the old iron that had been on my dream list back in the day, and advised the kids about the little things they'd never heard of, that had elevated the performance of the lesser Macs of my direct experience, at times, to heights of productive capability that outpaced that of the more expensive, newer Quadras.
Over the years, I've watched the kids grow up into fine, responsible young adults, without the (reasonable level of) social interaction in the lounge, I could never have noticed this development in youngsters I felt proud to consider to be my friends, not just mere internet acquaintences.
IMHO, ANY CHANGE to the original setup will only hinder future development of this last bastion of caring, helpful and knowledgeable PEOPLE, who form this wonderful virtual COMMUNITY and virtual remnant of the bricks & mortar MUG communities!
At any rate that's my two cen . . . erm . . . $4.87. :I
jt: whatever! =8-\
If you want a vision of what this place will become with a lounge that's off limits to visitors and devoid of the trials and tribulations of everyday life, just take a look at 'fritter! The forums over there appear to be terminally ill, the postcount abysmal, many of the most knowledgeable active members conspicuously MIA, while here, the COMMUNITY remains active and interesting, on topics strictly technical and those simply of human interest.
It has been the internet fora such as these that have, almost singlehandedly, destroyed the MUG COMMUNITIES in many places. People didn't join NYMUG just for the technical info available, they came for social contact at a physical clubhouse and to general meetings to socialize just as much, or more-so, than the speakers, the shareware library floppies and Mac paraphernalia, and the occasional presentation/demonstration, by Apple's and the Software companies' reps, of the most recent hardware and software releases.
The barracks, 'fritter and other sites became the new, virtual manifestations of the physical clubhouses and the Lounge and "remember outdoors" of the social aspects of the, once vibrant, Mac User Group COMMUNITIES. I'd hate to see this COMMUNITY go the way of the MUGs and 'fritter, which has thousands of "visitors" who are there for the content, but do not deign to join in the once vibrant forum community over there.
As an aside, the founding forum mods didn't quite know how to handle this lunatic old guy who seemed to know more about peripherals and how to get the most out of the old iron than anyone they'd run across, and could Google up info faster than almost anyone else. They also couldn't quite figure out what to do with the amazingly creative and endearingly oddball creature we all affectionately labeled "the maniac." So what did they do . . .
. . . IIRC, they created new fora and made the two of us mods, if not on the same day, within a very short period of time. With my new access to the War Room, I discovered this info and the thought processes that went into maintenance of this place as well as the vision of the founding few. Some have wandered off, some return occasionally, and some disappear completely for years only to reappear, and re-up again to become the constant contributors they had previously been, to this vibrant and helpful COMMUNITY!
In my case it was this COMMUNITY of eager youngsters and their personal banter in the lounge that had convinced me to enlist. I chose a username that reflected my long experience with CPUs of every sort and dove right in! The kids were avidly collecting the Macs that were the bread and butter of my sign business in NYC, and the ones I had never been able to afford. So I began collecting the old iron that had been on my dream list back in the day, and advised the kids about the little things they'd never heard of, that had elevated the performance of the lesser Macs of my direct experience, at times, to heights of productive capability that outpaced that of the more expensive, newer Quadras.
Over the years, I've watched the kids grow up into fine, responsible young adults, without the (reasonable level of) social interaction in the lounge, I could never have noticed this development in youngsters I felt proud to consider to be my friends, not just mere internet acquaintences.
IMHO, ANY CHANGE to the original setup will only hinder future development of this last bastion of caring, helpful and knowledgeable PEOPLE, who form this wonderful virtual COMMUNITY and virtual remnant of the bricks & mortar MUG communities!
At any rate that's my two cen . . . erm . . . $4.87. :I
jt: whatever! =8-\
macgeek417
Well-known member
Exactly.
Unknown_K
Well-known member
I think you people are missing the point, what keeps the 68kmla going is the people who have knowledge of 68k and early ppc macs who come to talk about them, and then maybe some other somewhat related stuff. There is no other viable 68k mac forum that I know of, this is it. Branching off into OSX and X86 mac was not a good idea.
If you want to shoot the breeze then go to the IRC channels.
If you want to shoot the breeze then go to the IRC channels.
macgeek417
Well-known member
There are no Intel mac forums here yet.
Mike Richardson
Banned
Removing The Lounge is like saying you can't discuss anything except Macs at a Mac swap meet.
Mike: Yeah, those new MacBook Pros are awesome.
Joe: They're pretty great.
Mike: So how's the wife?
Moderator: BANNED FROM THE SWAP MEET.
That would be a pretty lame swap meet.
Just like a swap meet exchanges goods, we come here to exchange ideas. Just like at a swap meet, while the primary focus is Macs (in this forum, 68K Macs), the venue also serves as a convenient time to discuss other topics with a group of people already gathered, some of which may be interested in your alternative topic.
For example, I posted a few threads about my van. Some people here know a lot more about vehicles than I do, and their advice was helpful. Those people who were uninterested in reading about the van could easily choose not to read that topic. I was able to gather some helpful information. The topic was even somewhat relevant since that van hauls Macs around at least every week from what would have otherwise been their certain doom in the hands of illegal chinese recycling operations.
Had that topic been prohibited, I would have had to register at some other forum, introduce myself, give them a blood sample, or whatever other ridiculous practices they have these days, just to post one topic about a van just to have half the people tell me I'm a moron or otherwise fail to provide useful advice, and then get banned for saying the word "dang" or violating some other inane forum rule.
You will not find very many social constructs in which it is downright prohibited to discuss topics other than the one at hand, although there may be inappropriate topics in particular circumstances. When it comes to fourms, the area for these off-topic discussions is generally relegated to one sub-forum. Those who, for whatever reason, dislike these kinds of topics may avoid them by not visiting that sub-forum.
Mike: Yeah, those new MacBook Pros are awesome.
Joe: They're pretty great.
Mike: So how's the wife?
Moderator: BANNED FROM THE SWAP MEET.
That would be a pretty lame swap meet.
Just like a swap meet exchanges goods, we come here to exchange ideas. Just like at a swap meet, while the primary focus is Macs (in this forum, 68K Macs), the venue also serves as a convenient time to discuss other topics with a group of people already gathered, some of which may be interested in your alternative topic.
For example, I posted a few threads about my van. Some people here know a lot more about vehicles than I do, and their advice was helpful. Those people who were uninterested in reading about the van could easily choose not to read that topic. I was able to gather some helpful information. The topic was even somewhat relevant since that van hauls Macs around at least every week from what would have otherwise been their certain doom in the hands of illegal chinese recycling operations.
Had that topic been prohibited, I would have had to register at some other forum, introduce myself, give them a blood sample, or whatever other ridiculous practices they have these days, just to post one topic about a van just to have half the people tell me I'm a moron or otherwise fail to provide useful advice, and then get banned for saying the word "dang" or violating some other inane forum rule.
You will not find very many social constructs in which it is downright prohibited to discuss topics other than the one at hand, although there may be inappropriate topics in particular circumstances. When it comes to fourms, the area for these off-topic discussions is generally relegated to one sub-forum. Those who, for whatever reason, dislike these kinds of topics may avoid them by not visiting that sub-forum.
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
I humbly submit that you are the one missing the point. Unless the great crash has artificially trimmed the term of your enlistment, you were not here for the many, sometimes heated, discussions in the lounge and certainly not for those in the war room which led up to some of the forum additions/deletions.
Please try not to be so cavalier in banishing "shooting the breeze" to the IRC channels, or whatever newfangled timesink has replaced "chat" from back in the day. Some of us are uncomfortable about even exploring such nonsense.
IMHO, if someone is ONLY interested in ANY kind of computer, in this case older Macs, they are not the types of people that I would care to bother wasting my own time to post an answer to whatever question they might have, or the kind of person with whom I would wish to associate, much less help, IRL.
Time is each of our's most valuable possession, it's only available in some unknown, finite quantity and should be spent wisely. IMHO, if this place EVER EVEN CONSIDERS becoming merely a techno-geek info source and inhibits in any way the social aspects of the MUG environment many of us remember and love . . . my ( | ) is outta here so fast geeky little heads will spin and I KNOW, that I'd be missed by the community here.
Any of you Macs discussion only types, please put yourself in your comrades shoes and ask yourselves if YOU would be missed.
'nuff said, I'm outta this negative vibe ridden thread,
jt
JDW
Well-known member
Seems like a good idea to me, although after all the years of my coming to this site, I never did use "New Posts." But then again, having to wading through irrelevant posts was my main reason why. For years, I've always just bookmarked the Compact Mac thread and I come there every day to see new posts (i.e., those of a technical and Classic Mac relevant nature). That's why most of you won't notice me posting in other forums often. I prefer the "techno-geek" aspect of 68kMLA and like the fact that the Compact Mac forum eschews the Twitter type mentality (e.g., "I'm eating ice cream now, wearing pink pijamas... And of course, since you are my friend, you really want to know this. And even if you don't want to read it, it makes me feel so much better to say it in public.")
I guess that would include me, so I shall share my thoughts. Personally, except for the hard disk crash we lost a priceless amount of classic Mac info and except for the rather strict crackdown on online auction discussions (which to my surprise included the deletion of an entire thread), I like this site just as much as I did when I first became a member. Of course, I cannot remember when that was because it was before the hard disk crash and that history was erased. :
So I personally do not feel that this forum is on a "decline."
While reading through this thread, I was amused by the off-topic discussion on Abandonware/Piracy. Seems like this thread is under threat of becoming The New Lounge! 8-o
Now after writing all this, I feel like I've socialized way to much.
Time to get back to the core reason for being here... Vintage Macing!
