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Updated 2023-07-12: Hello, Guest! Welcome back, and be sure to check out this follow-up post about our outage a week or so ago.
An open letter to the 68kMLA community...
- Thread starter ~tl
- Start date
Bunsen
Admin-Witchfinder-General
Absolutely. If you don't like what goes on in the Lounge, IGNORE IT. No-one's holding a gun to your head to read every single thread in there.
You can't change human nature. Everyone loves a chat, and a gossip, and whether you personally approve of it or not, it WILL happen. Many of us have made FRIENDS here, and the words of support to members in crisis is as much a part of building a community as helping them resurrect a rusty old Plus logic board. Kill one, and you kill the other - why would I bother offering my assistance without some sense of fellow-feeling and commonality with my comrades in arms?
Having NO Lounge would only result in all those "off-topic" discussions spilling over in to all the other forae, and in to unrelated threads. Try to imagine that.
Pull the leash too tight here, and we'll end up a tumbleweed-strewn, wind whistling ghost town like the once awesome 'fritter.
Hear hear.
Did we ever :-/
That's actually not a bad idea. I would support that. And the robots.txt restriction should only apply to the second category.
My thoughts on the lounge:
* Remove - NO
* Nuke and Pave - NO.
* Auto delete after {x} time - NO.
* Cherry pick, delete chaff - NO.
- Valuable information DOES exist in the Lounge. It should remain searchable from inside the forum. I don't believe it is either practical, from a time and labour point of view, or appropriate, for the mods to judge which threads are relevant and worthy of retention.
* Logged in members only, no Google index - YES
* Two categories - Off topic IT/Tech, and Other - YES
To me, a minor point compared to the others, but I absolutely agree.
And my personal gripe: PLEASE use the "Quote" button appropriately. Quoting the ENTIRE post directly above yours to add a three line comment is entirely unnecessary. If you are replying to specific points in a previous post, please quote only those points. EDIT the quote. Ghah.
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
Concur.
8-o
Exactly!
IF, we split the lounge into two sections, perhaps: the lounge and offbeat tech or some such: emulating 'fritter's other tech and remember outdoors I might be convinced that this is a good concept.
However, from day one of my enlistment, the lounge has been a hotbed of everything ranging from proscribed technical discussions right down to what can only be considered outright silliness. I strongly feel that such discussions enhance the "quality of life online" for our membership AND act as a magnet for the same type of avid collectors/offbeat personalities that nearly all of us seem to me to be here at the barracks.
It might actually be a good idea to have a "frequent flyers" type "lounge" that IS only open to registered members and 'bot free. An appropriate title might actually be the barracks! Such a forum might well act as an enticement for enlistment to those visitors interested in the old iron info, the discussions of offbeat tech, and the banter about non-tech/reasonably limited personal issues in the lounge.
The natural curiosity of such personality types will very likely be piqued by the mere existence of something closed off to them, such as a forum the likes of the barracks, further increasing enlistments!
IMHO the answer to our current dilemma might be :
1) splitting the lounge into THREE different categories as outlined above . . .
2) offering THREE different options for the selection of current posts . . .
3) more, but a reasonable level of, use of the "sticks of justice" . . .
4) and more frequent movement of "off forum" discussion into the proper category, most conspicuously, the barracks.
BTW: the definition of "off topic" discussion is not clear to me at all. I was under the impression that it applied to posts within a specific thread, NOT to the initiation of threads as a whole, and most CERTAINLY not to topics posted in the lounge.
The definition of the lounge has always been crystal clear, it was for the posting of anything unrelated to any specifically defined forum. Therefore the suggestion that discussions in the lounge can in any way be defined as "off topic" seems, to me, to be an oxymoron.
With the exception of a single lounge being available only to logged on members, I think we are in complete agreement on all other issues. With the addition of something along the lines of the barracks, that single caveat would disappear . . .
. . . and hopefully we can put an end to this increasingly divisive topic . . .
. . . and end the alarming rate of increasingly hostile postings. >
jt =8-/
p.s. thanks a lot, b! I'm freakin' cross-eyed from trying to straighten out the quote function in a post, within a post!
p.p.s. pretty sure it still isn't right, if you don't like it and can find my errors, feel free to edit.
Rodus
Well-known member
If you don't like the lounge don't read it - simples. Without a forum like the lounge where people can let of steam an talk off topic the other Mac related forums will become far more clogged up with inane, off topic talk which will really rattle people. Not indexing the Lounge makes sense but even deleating the posts seems pointless unless we need the server space badly.
macgeek417
Well-known member
Hmm, this topic has certainly made "progress" and I find it fairly amusing. I will put my real 2 cents in on the matter, even if I end up just reiterating what has already been said.
My best advice is to just CHILL OUT. This is an internet forum, not something that will cause the world to implode if it gets out of hand. To the people that think all of the off-topic "bullshit" should be removed and this forum be strictly on-topic, know that this place wouldn't be very enjoyable at all, with every community you have to have that community aspect. Where you can share your opinions with the people that share similar interests to you, where you can make friends and show off your desktop background etc. For those of you whose argument is that twitter/myspace/facebook is for this kind of thing, you are right, but unless everyone in your friend list happens to be interested in 68k/PPC macs, this place serves an important purpose.
As for the piracy/abandonware debate, just drop it, it's illegal and you are lucky that it held out for as long as it did. It really doesn't bother me because it was around long enough that I know where to look for this stuff, and who to PM if I'm looking for something obscure.
I prepare for any replies, rude or not.
Regards,
MMP
My best advice is to just CHILL OUT. This is an internet forum, not something that will cause the world to implode if it gets out of hand. To the people that think all of the off-topic "bullshit" should be removed and this forum be strictly on-topic, know that this place wouldn't be very enjoyable at all, with every community you have to have that community aspect. Where you can share your opinions with the people that share similar interests to you, where you can make friends and show off your desktop background etc. For those of you whose argument is that twitter/myspace/facebook is for this kind of thing, you are right, but unless everyone in your friend list happens to be interested in 68k/PPC macs, this place serves an important purpose.
As for the piracy/abandonware debate, just drop it, it's illegal and you are lucky that it held out for as long as it did. It really doesn't bother me because it was around long enough that I know where to look for this stuff, and who to PM if I'm looking for something obscure.
I prepare for any replies, rude or not.
Regards,
MMP
Scott Baret
Well-known member
It's a problem because some members have unnecessarily slandered sellers due to lack of knowledge, high prices, or the nature of the item sold. If we do allow posting of eBay links, the discussion of sellers should result in disciplinary action. This is not a place to come and bad-mouth people who may not be as into Macs as we are. We know fair prices and specifications because we are interested in these machines. The average person may think a Quadra 700 would be worth $250 used or may think a Mac SE runs DOS simply because they inherited these computers from someone and now need to sell them.
luddite
Host of RetroChallenge
It's actually quite amazing how CSA2 manages to mostly on-topic and mostly civil without any sort of moderation whatsoever.
That's the thing isn't it... if there were no rules here we could avoid all of this bickering. ;-)
In all seriousness, I think the volume of topics discussing the administration of the 68kmla is approaching ludicrous... what the membership needs to get through its collective thick skull is that you simply can't please everyone... and really, in the big scheme of things, it's all rather trivial.
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
eBay links have ALWAYS been a great way for all the troops to see what's available and how it's priced, "correctly" or at exorbitant levels, and to find out what to be aware of in terms of inaccurate specs.
IMHO, poking fun at some of the absurd pricing levels or blatantly inaccurate specs can hardly be considered "slander." Furthermore, discussion of the relative worth of such items in open markets is an extremely valuable learning tool for new recruits, some of the middle ranks, and even old-timers, who aren't quite as current as we'd like to be in this type of information.
IMHO, the assumption that all the troops are "in the know" on ANY subject should be avoided at all costs.
At NYMUG meetings the Q&A session rules were inflexible . . .
1) We're ALL here to learn.
2) The only stupid question is the one that doesn't get asked.
3) Making fun of newbies/any snickering at their questions/disdain for those who're ignorant (in correct usage, meaning the non-insulting, accurate definition of the word) of basic knowledge was WAY OUT OF LINE!
IMHO, the same rules should be applied to topic postings and replies made by the troops here at the 68kMLA.
However, those outside our clubhouse and offering the things we're collecting, NEED to be considered fair game, as what seems absurd pricing to one member might not to another who has enough desire for that particular item and the disposable money available to meet the price. Any comrade can also contact the seller, explain the situation, and make an offer to "Buy it now" if the item is re-listed at the offered price. I've used this method several times to buy items at a "reasonable price" without violating eBays rules! The learning tools outlined above are enhanced by such relatively harmless ridicule.
IMHO, of course,
jt :b&w:
Torbar
Well-known member
I haven't read through this whole thread fully, but here is my opinion.
There should be a board for non-Apple computers, and maybe another one for non-personal-computer technology(cars, video games, tvs, cameras, etc. If not then that stuff could go in the lounge)
The lounge should have general discussion topics, but nothing too personal(I lost my job, etc)
The lounge should be open up to the public again, because it seems like activity has dropped alot.
There should be a board for non-Apple computers, and maybe another one for non-personal-computer technology(cars, video games, tvs, cameras, etc. If not then that stuff could go in the lounge)
The lounge should have general discussion topics, but nothing too personal(I lost my job, etc)
The lounge should be open up to the public again, because it seems like activity has dropped alot.
Christopher
Well-known member
This is turning into a flame war.
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
ALMOST, but not quite as yet, IMHO.
There is bound to be a certain amount of acrimony expressed on such a subject.
That said, keep it civil, comrades!
As an attempt to get things back on track:
This is, ostensibly, a military organization. Like all such organizations, especially elite sub-units of such organizations, we've developed a strong sense of tradition/culture over time. This forum was created by a few enthusiastic renegades from the MacAddict forums almost ten years ago for the purpose of liberating the old iron.
We have many traditions here at the 68kMLA, one of which is a freewheeling discussion of almost anything imaginable in the lounge, as well as, Off Topic/MARGINALLY On Topic postings in any given thread. There is a reason for the camaraderie that is readily apparent here. There is also a reason that this organization has stood the test of time. If it was merely for the dissemination of 68k lore, why has a richer source of such content such as 'fritter, had its forums turned into a ghost town?
I understand that some of the relatively new recruits may only be interested in OT info, however this is a club, and when one joins a club, it is usually (at the very least) considered rude to join and then try to change the rules or traditions of that club to suit one's own specific interests.
IMHO, it doesn't really matter why any individual enlists here, all that matters is that the 68kMLA remains a growing, vibrant community (effective military organization) and some of the suggestions made here pose a clear and present danger to the long term health of this organization.
Comrades, please read each others posts carefully, take all viewpoints into serious consideration before making a reply. But most of all, be mindful of the fact that we must keep the viability of these forums at the forefront of those reflections, not anyones individual interests!
jt =8-|
Scott Baret
Well-known member
I second that.
I think something we should consider is having a "town hall" style meeting/debate on the chat room where all the admins and moderators would be present and willing to listen to input. One question would be discussed at a time and the moderators and admins should take the first stab at answering it/looking for solutions before turning it over to the rest of the members (which should be optional for some questions).
No board is perfect but by listening to all input, especially that of members who have been here a while, I feel we can continue to make this the best community possible.
Also, to reply to a post a few posts back--the lounge should definitely be unindexed (by search engines) and, in my opinion, locked to the public. As I have pointed out there have been many posts of a personal nature left by some of our members (such as employment concerns, relationship issues, etc) that do not add to our mission as a 68K Mac organization and are, quite frankly, not the business of the general public. To me these posts show a good sense of community, as some of our members who feel the need to vent obviously trust the others on this board, but I will once again back this up with a classic car show analogy. One can drive down the highway showing off his 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado, restored and possibly hotrodded, and can show it off while driving to and from the show. The car can also be left on display for those curious about, say, the dashboard, to see what it looks like. However, if a group of guys are talking about what they bought their wives for Christmas or Hanukkah, they are likely going to do so when the general public is not around asking questions about the cars they are showing. The members are together and engaging in good, healthy talk amongst themselves (after all, socialization is a key element of human life) yet are not broadcasting this in a public area and do not share this sort of information when someone comes around to look at or ask about the cars. It's the same way on here--keep the Mac stuff for the masses to see while keeping personal thoughts or concerns private (and for that matter, off-topic stuff that's not going to add to what a guest would come to this board for).
equill
Well-known member
Until but a minute-or-two ago I had read none of the preceding discussion but ~tl's original kindling. Temetka's post (notably, but not solely) came close to enunciating the aching centre of the matter: taste. The presence of a Lounge is not inherently out-of-place for this Army, but some of the postings to it are. From comments about trading on eBay to closely personal events in the lives of our soldiers none is ipso facto out-of place, and may be instructive to other soldiers — and our sympathies must lie with any of our soldiers who are so bereft of living, breathing, close-by friendship and support that they feel forced to bare their problems here — but closure of the Lounge to passing bots and the prurient gaze of visitors is one merciful way to reduce their exposure.
We live in an increasingly tasteless age. If you doubt that, count the number of in-your-face TV ads featuring pantie-liners, penile disfunction, imaginative sexual practice and the like that will come at you without forewarning in any given week. Must we have visible instruction in the virtues and application of toilet paper caught by a WC-cam before a revulsion sets in? The tastelessness is partly generational and strongly commercial, and you can propose your own potential causes for that. However, there is no legislating for taste, just as there is none against stupidity or belligerence. Nonetheless, a qualified privilege must exist for a special-interest association such as ours, and this Army is well-entitled to voice its displeasure, civilly but unambiguously, if boundaries are overstepped in its forums.
In short, let's continue to have a Lounge. Let's also be prepared not to welcome drivel, conscious offence and dangerous overstatement in it. In the special-interest forums, history will be a better arbiter of what should be discussed than we are able to be at this moment. RIP Applefritter.
de
We live in an increasingly tasteless age. If you doubt that, count the number of in-your-face TV ads featuring pantie-liners, penile disfunction, imaginative sexual practice and the like that will come at you without forewarning in any given week. Must we have visible instruction in the virtues and application of toilet paper caught by a WC-cam before a revulsion sets in? The tastelessness is partly generational and strongly commercial, and you can propose your own potential causes for that. However, there is no legislating for taste, just as there is none against stupidity or belligerence. Nonetheless, a qualified privilege must exist for a special-interest association such as ours, and this Army is well-entitled to voice its displeasure, civilly but unambiguously, if boundaries are overstepped in its forums.
In short, let's continue to have a Lounge. Let's also be prepared not to welcome drivel, conscious offence and dangerous overstatement in it. In the special-interest forums, history will be a better arbiter of what should be discussed than we are able to be at this moment. RIP Applefritter.
de
