A Plus, a Farallon Etherwave and internet...

[numero6]

Hi everyone,

As the title says, I'm the proud owner of a Plussed 512, a Farallon Etherwave localtalk-to-ethernet bridge and of an internet connection - and my goal is obviously to make those 3 comunicate !

I've already read many pages about connecting these old Macs to internet, and it seems quite difficult to get homogeneous informations, that's why I'd like to tell you what I am doing : maybe someone can help me or maybe some other can benefit from this experiment

First, the basics : I run system 6.0.8, the Etherwave bridge is connected to the modem port of the Plus on one side and to my router on the other (and is 12V plugged too...). I've set the router so that the Etherwave has his own IP address (a sticker on its base gave me its MAC address).

Now the software part : Appletalk is On, and I'm tying to get the connection via MacTCP: the only choice in its main window is - logically- Localtalk. I've entered manually the settings for it to connect with the router and... bingo ! the Etherwave bridge does show some data transfer (blinking leds), as well as my router (its "kbyte counter" sums up, both for transmitting and receiving).

But... the only application I have (for the moment) to test my connection is Eudora. I've set it up to receive and send mail but the only thing I can get is a "Domain Server Name not responding" error or something like this (I'll post screen capture with the exact error number later).

So that's it for the moment, I'lL keep testing different settings but if anyone sees I've made a mistake so far please tell me !

Thanks for your attention :-*

 

[porter]

First, the basics : I run system 6.0.8, the Etherwave bridge is connected to the modem port of the Plus on one side and to my router on the other (and is 12V plugged too...).

1. LocalTalk runs on the printer port.

2. Do you have a MacIP gateway?

 

[numero6]

1. Thanks 8-o I'll try that then

2. No - why should I ?

 

[numero6]

2. No - why should I ?

Well I've done a bit of google and found "why" on my own... But errrrr I haven't found "how" ?!

 

[numero6]

MacTCP settings :





What Eudora says :

 

[shred]

The problem is that LocalTalk can't "do" tcp/ip (the "internet" protocol) - it can only handle AppleTalk and that's it.

MacTCP allows you to work around this limitation by wrapping ("encapsulating") tcp/ip inside LocalTalk packets. This is called "MacIP" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacIP). For MacIP to work, you also need something on your ethernet network that understands both AppleTalk and tcp/ip and can unwrap the tcp/ip packets and put them out on the Internet.

This is ideally performed by a LocalTalk to Ethernet router (hard to find these days). There are also software routers and MacIP gateways, like the old "Apple Internet Router" that you can run on a second, ethernet capable Mac to do this - but you don't really want to be running a second Mac just to hook a Mac Plus up to the 'net.

[EDIT] Your domain setup in MacTCP looks a bit weird too. Under the "Domain Name Server" column, the "Domain" text boxes have your domain name ("68kmla.org" or whatever) on the left and the DNS server IP on the right. I'm pretty rusty on this stuff now, but I think it was conventional to have at least one entry with the domain name "." (just a period) to represent all domains other than your own.

 

[Charlieman]

The Farallon EtherWave is a "full TCP/IP" device and should act like a conventional ethernet adapter. They're a bit on the slow side, but adequate for basic use with a Plus or SE. It looks to me that the drivers aren't installed properly. You should see two network device entries in the MacTCP dialog -- one for LocalTalk and one for the EtherWave. Apart from that, it's just typical MacTCP setup.

 

[numero6]

There are also software routers and MacIP gateways, like the old "Apple Internet Router" that you can run on a second, ethernet capable Mac to do this - but you don't really want to be running a second Mac just to hook a Mac Plus up to the 'net.

Well why not, my PB is next to the Plus so it could perfectly do that... Is there any MacIP software for Leopard I could install on it ?

[EDIT] Your domain setup in MacTCP looks a bit weird too. Under the "Domain Name Server" column, the "Domain" text boxes have your domain name ("68kmla.org" or whatever) on the left and the DNS server IP on the right. I'm pretty rusty on this stuff now, but I think it was conventional to have at least one entry with the domain name "." (just a period) to represent all domains other than your own.

I've tried that too, in fact in the screen capture you can see that the "default" setting is like you say.

 

[numero6]

It looks to me that the drivers aren't installed properly. You should see two network device entries in the MacTCP dialog -- one for LocalTalk and one for the EtherWave. Apart from that, it's just typical MacTCP setup.

I have no driver for the Etherwave ; but I could reinstall MacTCP maybe something is wrong.

 

[shred]

Ok, I'm not familiar with the EtherWave product, but you described it as a "bridge". I have never seen a LocalTalk to Ethernet bridge that is capable of MacIP, but I guess it's possible that one exists. Usually, the MacIP feature is in routers, since bridges tend to be "dumb" devices. With the routers, you get configuration software so that you can define ranges of IP addresses to make available via MacIP. I don't know if this would apply to a MacIP capable bridge.

If the EtherWave is a bridge and connects to the Mac via LocalTalk, it shouldn't need a driver on the Mac. To confuse matters, there does appear to be an EtherWave branded ethernet adaptor that connects via the Mac Printer port, but uses its own, proprietary technique to communicate with the Mac for 3x LocalTalk speed. This would require a driver, would then appear as a second device in MacTCP, as Charlieman described and wouldn't need MacIP, since it would be an ethernet adaptor, not bridge or router. (Are you confused yet ???)

I use a device called an "EtherRoute TCP", which is a full blown AppleTalk bridge to get my old Macs on the Internet.

 

[porter]

Alternatives include using a serial port to another host and using PPP between them.

 

[PowerPup]

Hello, I'm PowerPup. I just joined the forum. (Awesome forum by the way.)

I almost succeed in a similar attempt, it ended up not working so well because I could not find a stable browser to work on my Mac Classic II. :lol:

What I had done was I used my PowerBook 3400 with IPNetRouter, this allowed me to route my DSL internet through the laptop's printer port and to my Mac Classic II.

I did some research and it seems your Farallon Etherwave has some sort of support for TCP/IP.

If your PowerBook G4 has Mac OS 9, you can use this guide to set it all up. Just make sure AppleTalk is set to Ethernet. And your Etherwave will do the rest. (I could even make a guide if it helps.)

---------------------------------

Okay, While writing this up I thought I'd also look for the drivers for your Etherwave, after some googling I ended up back to this forum! Link

If v2.3 doesn't seem to work you can try v2.2.2

If the drivers work out then you probably won't need any of the info I posted above. :lol:

Oh well, it was fun typing it.

Hope this helps.

 

[numero6]

Are you confused yet ???

Yes I am, that's why I started this post in the first place - but that's part of the fun isn't it ? :lol: Thanks for the help anyway. My router is one of those "box" (as we call them here in France) my ADSL/Cable TV/Phone provider gave me, so I can't install any MacIP software on it. I'll have to use my PB as an intermediary then...

If your PowerBook G4 has Mac OS 9, you can use this guide to set it all up. Just make sure AppleTalk is set to Ethernet. And your Etherwave will do the rest.

I'd like to be able to use the Plus anytime so running OS9 on my PB wouldn't be very convenient. But as it seems there's an OSX version of IPNetRouter so I could give it a try ! But first I think I'll make a test with the drivers you indicated me.

And you're right, this forum is awesome

 

[numero6]

IPNetRouter for OSX doesn't have any more MacIP capability :-/ So if I want to be using the PB as a gateway I'll have to find another software, like Vicom's SurfDoubler or Vicom's Internet Gateway.

By the way, a friend should send me a copy of Apple IP Gateway (although it is uselees for my purpose), let me know if you are interested.

 

[porter]

Tiger explicitly prevents you registering either IPADDRESS or IPGATEWAY AppleTalk names using NBP. So no MacIP gateway on Tiger upwards.

 

[numero6]

 

[PowerPup]

It IS possible to use the Classic version of IPNetRouter on a 68k machine. I had made a little DNS and mail server with a LC III once. Just put a Ethernet card in there, get it all setup, then use one of those mac to VGA monitor adapters so that it would continue booting without a monitor attached. and Ta-da! I had even added a sound file in the Startup Items folder so I would know it finished booting.

So if you can get your hands on a second 68k mac that CAN have Ethernet. That would work too.

 

[Bunsen]

There's also Apple's own LocalTalk Bridge software:

System requirements
System 7.1 or later.

Memory requirements:

* LocalTalk Bridge / approximately 70K

* Open Transport / 5 MB [68k] or 8 MB [PPC].

Hardware Requirements:

* at least a 68020 processor.

* LocalTalk port and an alternate interface (Ethernet, Token Ring, or Infrared).

 

[porter]

There's also Apple's own LocalTalk Bridge software

Yes, but it doesn't provide the MacIP gateway.