7100 vs 6100

[System7]

Both are very loaded. Both are in a match to earn my favor. Its a death match between beige macs.

7100:

80mhz 601 & 512k Cache

Maximum RAM

1gb HD

OS 7.6

No CD ROM

Standard PDS Video

6100:

Sonnet G3

52mb RAM

1gb HD

OS 7.6

CD ROM

AV Card

One has better cooling than the other. One has a greater retro factor. One is slimmer. Only one will win in the minds of the people. Soon, I will test them each for one day as my computer, pitting them to massive stresses. Which one that works properly, gets chosen as top Nubus PPC from the last 2 I have not gotten working yet. :beige:

 

[porter]

When I got my first new PowerPC, it was a toss up between a 6100 or a 6200+ethernet, the prices were very similar.

I choose badly and went for the 6200 and ever since wished I had the 6100 especially when they got MkLinux going on it, and somebody had managed to load AIX programs on it.

Ironically, now the 6200 is flying with Debian Sarge, and the 6100 is still stuck with MkLinux.

 

[MacJunky]

As long as you do not need much expansion you could put some of the RAM from the 7100 into the 6100 and use the 6100.(they both use the same 72pin in pairs of 2 right?)

Alternatively, I have not seen the 7100 case's innards but if it is anything like the 7300 case(prolly not much knowing Apple) then you might be able to stick both 1GB HDDs in that.

I personally would go for maxing the RAM in that 6100 though. It has that G3 and the AV card as well. 7.6 would be pretty nice on that G3.(assuming there is compatible software for it in 7.6)

The only reason the 7100 would be better in my opinion is possibly more room inside, more nubus slots and more RAM slots. The 7100 case is also uglier in my opinion.

*shrug*

 

[Unknown_K]

I have a pair of 6100's (one has the DOS card) and a pair of 7100 (7100/66). If you do not need Nubus slots I say go with the 6100 with PDS video. For some reason I don't care for the 7100 case design. One of the 7100's has a G3 card with PDS passthrough, works well except that the onboard SCSI is so slow that running OS 9 even with a G3 is too slow. Great for system 7.6.1.

I would take a 8100 over either (or my 81/110 Radius).

 

[LCGuy]

The 7100 any day. Why?

- Faster in stock form...although most 7100s were the 66 Mhz version, same as the 6100/66, there was also a version which used the 80 Mhz PowerPC 601, which was never offered in the 6100.

- More RAM slots, the 7100 has 8, meaning its cheaper and easier to upgrade than the 6100, with its 2.

- 3 NuBus slots AND a PDS slot, in comparison to the 6100's single PDS slot that requires a right angle adaptor or G3 upgrade, and no NuBus slots unless you find the very rare 601 PDS to NuBus adapter

The King of NuBus PowerMac Hill, however, is the PM8100, which has all the advantages of the 7100, but in a tower case with an extra drive bay, and was offered in even faster versions, with speeds starting at 80 Mhz, and the faster versions having 100 or 110 Mhz CPUs. I've owned two 8100s, an 8100/80AV and an 8100/110AV, and absolutely loved them both, they were great machines. That said, if someone offered me a 6100, I'd snap it up in a heartbeat - I'd love to get back into the 601 PowerPC game.

 

[Outlander]

I love the 6100 series, strangely thou I never liked them when they came out. The 7100 series I never really liked simply because of the IIvx case design it used. I always found that case to be flimsy and it always seemed to vibrate especially when a CD ROM was used. There's nothing wrong with the 7100 function wise, just a personal thing.

One of my 3, 6100's has got a newertech G3 card in it, I love it. Had to return it back to stock 66mhz clock speed, the G3 card would not function with the machine clocked to 80mhz I guess the frequency on the G3 card was just too high with the 40mhz bus. That and the fact I had to remove my dos card kind of sucked(not the G3's fault, switched to an HPV video card), but emulation is fine with RealPC.

OH! And I would like to get ahold of the 1mb cache module if anyone is selling one of those or knows where to find one.

 

[trag]

- More RAM slots, the 7100 has 8, meaning its cheaper and easier to upgrade than the 6100, with its 2.

The 7100 has four memory slots and paradoxically, actually has a lower RAM capacity. The 6100 can go to 264 MB with a pair of 128 MB SIMMs. The 7100 will only support 32 MB SIMMs for a maximum of 136 MB.

The King of NuBus PowerMac Hill, however, is the PM8100, which has all the advantages of the 7100, but in a tower case with an extra drive bay, and was offered in even faster versions, with speeds starting at 80 Mhz, and the faster versions having 100 or 110 Mhz CPUs. I've owned two 8100s, an 8100/80AV and an 8100/110AV, and absolutely loved them both, they were great machines. That said, if someone offered me a 6100, I'd snap it up in a heartbeat - I'd love to get back into the 601 PowerPC game.

The real kind of NuBus PowerMac Hill is the PM9150 with a 120 MHz PPC601, and four NuBus slots. However, it has issues if you want to use a G3 accelerator and an HPV video card.

 

[trag]

OH! And I would like to get ahold of the 1mb cache module if anyone is selling one of those or knows where to find one.

They are unobtainium, unless you find someone with an old one who is willing to sell. There were never that many of them sold and once the G3 upgrades came out, that pretty much ended the market for larger L2 cache modules.

Newer Tech made one. I'm not sure if anyone else did. It should be possible to build one, but the cost would probably be a couple hundred dollars because of the circuit board.

 

[Bunsen]

6100 / 1mb cache module

You can't use motherboard cache if you have a G3 fitted. Besides, they have cache on them.

 

[tyrannis]

Soon, I will test them each for one day as my computer, pitting them to massive stresses. Which one that works properly, gets chosen as top Nubus PPC from the last 2 I have not gotten working yet.

If you plan on subjecting them to an intensive task deathmatch, is the 7100 not the better choice by default? The heat-related failures with G3 6100s seem to involve max RAM and accelerated video, so maybe it's not an issue.

 

[Bunsen]

Firstly, remove the power supply from the 6100 and pull out the useless air filter. Useless because it's actually facing the wrong way to keep dust out, it keeps dust in. :?: :?: All it does is end up clogged with gunk and impeding proper airflow.

Secondly, check and if necessary (which it almost certainly will be) wipe and replace the heat transfer paste between the 601 CPU and heatsink. Ditto the G3 if you can work out how to dismantle it safely. The 601 heatsink clips through the motherboard at the corners IIRC.

Thirdly, place a barrier under the 6100 to physically separate the incoming cool air from the outgoing hot air. I used a folded dishcloth diagonally from the front right foot to the left rear foot.

 

[alk]

Great tips, Bunsen!

Have you done an in-depth study of where hot air stagnates inside the case?

I've always loved the 6100. It's a great little machine, but the 30/33MHz bus is a killer! One day I'll get around to ordering a crystal and overclocking mine. Having good info on cooling would probably help that project. I suppose I could map out the airflow myself, but if someone has already done it... ;-)

Peace,

Drew

 

[Bunsen]

Have you done an in-depth study of where hot air stagnates inside the case?

Can't say that I have.

In brief, air flows in under the HD at front-left, and out via the PS at top-right.

My subjective impressions were that installing a CD drive helped to direct airflow over the CPU, and that the train wreck pileup of RAM, SCSI and power cables right next to the PS inlet was a potential bottleneck. I'm not sure where or how it could be improved - removing the internal SCSI cables and booting externally might help, but then you lose the low profile feetsmac sex factor. Rounding the SCSI cables might lead to clearance problems over the RAM - ditto with tidying up the PS cables. But as always YYMV and I encourage experimentation.

"Come over here, Beaker, and hold these two wires. No, this won't hurt a bit"

I've wondered about placing a second case fan - either blowing in/out the Nubus port or out a new hole above the HDI video connector - but I have doubts about how that would affect airflow. I note that small fans can be found that fit nicely into the top of the 601 heatsink , and that Output Enablers sell them with their overclocking kits. That at least should help keep the 601 cool, and it might get some more air blowing around the G3.

Other options, in reverse order of ludicrousness, would be a better heatsink on the 601, a better (quieter?) PS fan, ducting, cooler-running or solid state hard drive, externalising the PS, heatpipe, liquid cooling, und so weite.

When I get back to 6100 experiments, I'll also see what could be done about supplemental cooling for the PDS G3 - maybe a salvaged sideblower fan from a notebook could be squeezed in their somewhere.

Searching the old forum archive here and the old applefritter forums should yield some more data.

 

[Temetka]

I'd go for the 6100 myself.

It's got the cool case, and supports more RAM.

I'd replace the heatsink with a larger one and of course new paste. Then a low speed G3 (which would smoke the 601), a 128MB stick of RAM and I'd be set for some retro fun.

 

[Bunsen]

The 6100 requires a matched pair of RAM SIMMs

 

[Temetka]

That shouldn't be a problem. I've got a box here with darn near 100 sticks of 72-pin RAM. Should the OP need some, I am more than sure could dig him up a pair of matched 32MB or maybe possibly a matched pair of 64MB sticks.

 

[Unknown_K]

I think the OP left the forum.

 

[Mars478]

I think the OP left the forum.

The OP was banned, he is MacintoshMan AKA System7.

He was the one making all of the fake 68k movies

 

[Unknown_K]

I think the OP left the forum.

The OP was banned, he is MacintoshMan AKA System7.

He was the one making all of the fake 68k movies

I seen about 3 seconds of one of those movies, would have banned him just for that.