4400/200 - dirty to clean

[jessenator]

Looks like a great little machine!

It runs pretty well right now. Can't wait to get 8.1 or 8.6 on it, just for a lighter weight OS.

I like that this is a more controlled method  

Yeah, I was worried at first that it wasn't working at all, but it just takes more time. I saw enough horror photos of botched Saran wrap jobs that I tried to figure out another way...

 

[toples50]

Great work for an incredible machine!

I'm still looking the metal top bar for my Power Mac 4400...

 

[jessenator]

Great work for an incredible machine!

I'm still looking the metal top bar for my Power Mac 4400...

Thanks! Let me PM you about the eBay listing I got (there's still another one)

 

[Cory5412]

Very nice work on this!

OS: if 9.1 isn't fast for you (and thinking about it, I'm both surprised and unsurprised, compared with, say, my 8600 where 9.1 is Fine(TM)) then I'd consider going to 7.6.1.

8.1 is probably my next favorite compromise if HFS+ is important to you. 7.6.1 (and really, 7.5.5 too) will work fine as a single big volume on that hardware, maybe use DC6 images for collections of very small files or do like a 4GB boot partition and a [rest of the drive] data partition if you're worried.

 

[CC_333]

8.1 does have some nice amenities that help it into the 21st century, such as Carbon Lib support, so it can run a fair number of early Carbonized programs (AppleWorks 6, initial versions of iTunes, etc), though 8.6 would probably be best if you need HFS+, as it was the best of the 8.x line, and had most of the bugs worked out.

Other than that, I agree with Cory5412. For speed, 7.6.1 would probably be best (can Carbon Lib work on 7.6.x? Architecturally, it and 8.1 aren't terribly different).

c

 

[jessenator]

Thanks for the input

I have the the legacy restore cd and 7.6.1 is only an update on that collection. I've read the 4400 in particular can't boot 7.6.

Can you upgrade from 7.5.3 to 7.6.1? Or is it just a matter of booting from CD or other volume, installing the base system, then installing 7.6.1 before you attempt to boot?

I also read the 4400 can't run 7.5.5, but I'll gladly be corrected in that one.

So far I haven't used up 2GB my CF card, so maybe I can get by with what you suggested. I don't mind 2 partitions or even three.

Ugh Monday can't come soon enough and I'll have a working CD-ROM again.

Really the only reason I had 9.1 was, as mentioned earlier, the only thing I actually got installed and booting from my bridge machine (ibook). But hopefully Monday will bring me a tastier treat of a bridge Mac

 

[Cory5412]

You can pick up a PC/OSX-burnable ISO of 7.6.1 from here: http://personal.stenoweb.net/oldmac/ if you'd like. The iMac/233 8.1 CD should also work.

I had thought the 4400 shipped with 7.5.5, but perhaps it was 7.6.1.

If you have 7.5.x on it now, you can upgrade, although I'm personally a fan of doing clean installs, it's not like the media is hard to come by at this point.

Re carbon applications: In writing, most Carbon aplications need 8.6 or newer, and I personally don't tend to recommend 8.5/8.6, in favor of going all the way to 9.0.x or 9.1, in order to get the last of the application support and features. The amenities of 8.1 are purely the better finder, shipping with updated OT/AS *(which you can add to 7.6.1) and HFS+.

 

[jessenator]

Thanks for the link!

I had thought the 4400 shipped with 7.5.5, but perhaps it was 7.6.1.

7.5.3, even though 7.5.5 was already released and 7.6.1 dropped not long after, according to 65scribe at any rate. His boxed version still had the promo piece for 7.6 in it. From all I read, 7.5.5 is a no-go. It looks like all the Tanzania models don't support 7.5.5… I have the ISOs of the basic restore disc and the Small Business bundle disc, both with version is 7.5.3 and system enabler 827.

I'll hopefully get a chance to run through all the programs I want to use on this machine and see which one is best suited. 

 

[Cory5412]

7.6.1 is clearly the best version anyway.

I have the ISOs of the basic restore disc and the Small Business bundle disc, both with version is 7.5.3 and system enabler 827

Because this is the thing I'm always asking:

Did you image those (if so, how and/or are you willing to reimage them) or were they on, like macgarden? (If they're there, I'll find them eventually, I'm on "apps_D", the fourth folder and the OS collection folder is the last of ~55 folders to work on.)

 

[jessenator]

were they on, like macgarden?

Yeah. Some posts have nicely indexed DL sections, and others are woeful :/  

I have #1 & #3 from this page: http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/power-macintosh-4400-software-media-set

No need for the tutorial, except to laugh—it's all Performa tutorials anyways.

These were available under the 7.5.3+ extras page

http://macintoshgarden.org/sites/macintoshgarden.org/files/apps/PM4400-200_WW.ZIP
World Wide version 7.5.3

http://macintoshgarden.org/sites/macintoshgarden.org/files/apps/PM4400CD_753.ZIP
7.5.3 (North America?) Version

http://macintoshgarden.org/sites/macintoshgarden.org/files/apps/PM4400-160CD_UK.ZIP
4400/160 Version (7.5.3)

 

[jessenator]

So my CD-ROM is here and it works!

However, I can't boot from any burned disc I have...  It'll read them just fine when I'm booted into 9.1, and the 9.1 OE disc I have boots just fine as well.

So far only the UK 4400 7.5.3 (which I somehow burned) and the NA 4400 small business restore CD will boot. Niether 7.6.1 retail nor 8.1 boot at all. My inexperience tells me it's the lack of the system enabler, but then how does it boot with other Macs? I might experiment with an upgrade...

 

[omidimo]

MacTracker lists Original OS as 7.5.2 via System Enabler 827

 

[jessenator]

Weird. The original discs are definitely 7.5.3. MT could be wrong I guess. Maybe I'm misremembering too. Was 7.5.3 called update 2 or something weird? The nomenclature for 7.5 and its variants seemed scattered, but then again it was the Spindler era...

Worked just fine to restore system from disc and then a quick update to 7.6.1 and I'm golden! Not even a system enabler in the system folder. Runs smooth.

Just need to download a UDF extension and the Rage128 drivers. Although I've got good native support as it is. It's nice and light. Uses about 1/3 of the RAM 9.1 did.

 

[jessenator]

 

[EvilCapitalist]

Somewhat amusing that the Sonnet box art clearly depicts a 4400, when I'm betting the majority of folks buying these were picking them up for 64/6500 towers and the TAM.

 

[jessenator]

Somewhat amusing that the Sonnet box art clearly depicts a 4400, when I'm betting the majority of folks buying these were picking them up for 64/6500 towers and the TAM.

Exactly… I've never seen numbers, but I'm guessing those two eclipsed the 4400 sales, or at the very least were kept around longer… I had never even heard of the 4400/7220 until I joined this forum.

In all truthfulness, I'm preferring this upgraded 4400 over the G3 MT I got, but it might just be the optimization going on with 7.6.1—I haven't found a bootable Mac OS 8.0/8.1 image out there— I tried one from Macintosh Garden, labeled as the Beige G3 restore disc, and tried to match what little they had regarding ROM revision compatibility (my MT is rev. 3), but no dice—however, I have noticed the OE CD-ROM is spotty in its ability to read burned discs. Might just be dirty… The Plextor CD-R is just fine, and I finally got a Toast 4 upgrade so it recognizes it, so I can put it through its paces.

I'll probably track down an 8.0 retail image somehow. (maybe it's on Cory's repository?) 8.5 retail booted right up, but it feels weird to me for some reason I can't pin down. I want to do a full suite of my own "tests" on the optimal OS for each, so I'm guessing it's either 8.0 or 8.1 for the Gossamer MTs/DTs, but correct me. I've read 8.6 it its time was "not all it's advertised to be" but that came from a questionable internet source.

Once my loopback cable arrives I'm going to test the PC card in the 4400 first. The guy I got it from tested it and it registers as a video card, but with no drivers, etc., that's probably fairly accurate.

 

[jessenator]

So, meh news.

The 64MB EDOs I got were single-banked/ranked, and for some reason the computer only recognizes half of it so go figure. Well, if anyone needs 3.3v RAM for their IBM build or whatever, I'll give them a good deal. My PC card loopback cable came though

 

[CC_333]

Would these work in my PowerBase 200?

I'm not sure if it's the RAM or the logic board, because there's this weird problem I hadn't noticed before where it sees a 64 MB DIMM as 16 MB (with 8 MB as logic board RAM?) and the stock 32 MB as 8 MB? 32+64+64 should equal the maximum of 160 MB, but I only get 96?

Anyone know what the problem might be, and if a reasonable solution exists? I'd replace the logic board with the other one if ADB and PS/2 weren't both dead (they probably share the same, apparently defective circuit?)

Thank you?

c

 

[jessenator]

Would these work in my PowerBase 200?

I'd totally send them your way, but I looked on Mac gurus and those need 5v 2k refresh DIMMs apparently, though. Bummer.

 

[jessenator]

I think I'd like to try 8.1 (especially now I have a 3-PCI riser and can use a non-COMMII card with other things) just for kicks, but I'm liking the performance I'm getting with System 7.6.1