1984 Macintosh Guided Tour "Urban Legend"?

[Mac128]

Like most vintage Mac users, I've heard the story that the original 1984 Macintosh Guided Tour contains old-style icons and system features (indeed it is coded as System .85), because at the last minute Apple found a bug that prevented the Guided Tour from running under the final shipping operating System 1.0 (v.97). Of course that story makes complete sense, but is it true?

I just did a search on the internet and found absolutely nothing corroborating that story. And I can't remember where I read it originally. Could it too be just another urban legend that has been circulated around the vintage Mac posts based on someone's original speculation about why the Tour disk looks radically different?

The first two versions of the User's Guide also contained details that more closely resemble the System .85 used on the Tour Disk. In fact it was not revised until System 1.1 release in April 1984.

Perhaps there was never a problem at all and no one bothered to revise it because they were working so hard to finish the actual operating system in time? Anybody have some references they can supply to support this one way or the other?

 

[Kallikak]

I too have read it, both in print and on the net, but of course that is not necessarily authoritative. You could try running the Guided Tour app with System 1.0 - if it doesn't work, that would be significant supporting evidence.

 

[Scott Baret]

I think I read something supporting this in Mac Secrets, the David Pogue/Joseph Schorr classic.

One of the things discussed in the original manual and the guided tour was the "alternate disk", which was a storage area in the computer's RAM designed for copying files. It was scrapped in the final version, but that was not the reason the OS did not ship.

Evidently the Finder had some major compatibility issues. I don't have the book next to me right now so I'm a bit shaky on those details but I could help you out more tomorrow when I get it out.

Also, on some of the early guided tour disks, circa 1985-1986, there was a precursor to TeachText called "File". Anyone else ever used this little program?

 

[iMac600]

Of course it's true, I uploaded a disk image of System 0.85 a while back. Basically if you open the Guided Tour disk on a later model Mac, rename the "oldFinder" file to "Finder" and fix the Type/Creator with ResEdit... voila, you have System 0.85. It does have the "Alternate Disk" still present, along with a few other small features.

Download from http://mac.profusehost.net/crosswire/mac.zip, but I should note it only works in Mini vMac 128k or 512k. Later versions will boot it but most likely have some stability issues.

We also had a discussion about this system version in this 68kmla thread.

 

[slomacuser]

yeah, and some allready posted some videos at YouTube

[8)] ]'>

 

[Mac128]

Guys thanks for the input ... but iMac600, where is your documentation to make the assertion "of course it's true"? And Kallikak with all due respect, just swapping out system and finders, etc. isn't going to prove anything. Unless we know how exactly the Guided Tour works and interacts with the System and Finder, there's no way to just swap some files to asses the compatibility with System 1.0. Certainly Apple would not have thrown up their hands with such a minor effort (but it's certainly worth a try sometime).

Also, iMac600, I participated in that thread about System .85. I found your experiment fascinating and posted the link to the PDF insert from the original User's Guide that instructs to ignore the "Alternate Disk" as that manual is based entirely around a variant of System .85. But in addition to copy protecting the Guided Tour disk, I am almost certain Apple further crippled the System beyond what was necessary to run the Tour. Apple did not want that System out there. So constructing a stand alone system out of that disk doesn't really prove anything either.

My point here is where are the documented references that confirm the Guided Tour disk used System .85 because it was found to be incompatible with the final release System .97 at the 11th hour? Scott, I really look forward to hearing what you turn up when you have a chance. Thanks!

 

[iMac600]

Ah so it's the references you're after. I see. Hold on... just a sec...

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:33 pm

Ok, I can't blame my mistake on late night posts. Put me down for inattentive posting then.

 

[LCGuy]

Alrighty then, you asked for it.

*writes out a posting ticket for iMac600* There's a $180 fine and 4 points on your forum license for not posting properly.

Thank you, please post safely.

 

[iMac600]

But officer, I was only doing 90wpm? Surely it isn't that bad?

*takes the ticket and drives off without LCGuy noticing the bald keys on the left side of the keyboard*

 

[Scott Baret]

I got my copy of Mac Secrets out and I found the following...I'm reading from the 2nd Edition if you want to read along at home...

-On page 169, under the section of System 1.0, the book mentions Mousing Around, which was on the tutorial disk (the book states so). It also mentions that Mousing Around was the program that had an incompatibility with the Finder. What I am not sure of from here is if Mousing Around was incompatible with 0.85 or 0.97. I also think the version that the authors are referring to as being shipped on the Mousing Around disk is the one they state is not ideal for regular use.

What I believe happened here, if Pogue and Schorr are saying what I think they are, is that Mousing Around was developed to be compatible with System 0.85 and had issues when the system was redone for its "production" phase (0.97). This is why the tour disk had the older version.

-On page 171, a sidebar about folders exists. The older rounded folder is placed next to the one that was in the Mac OS until OS 8. I believe I read somewhere, possibly on G. Younk's Mac 512 site, that this folder was in 0.85 and not 1.0. I've used straight-up 1.0 on my Lisa (original MacWorks disk) and I know the folders were "normal" in it.

Anyone else agree with my theory?

WORKS CITED

Pogue, David and Joseph Schorr. Macworld Mac & Power Mac Secrets, 2nd Edition. San Mateo: IDG Books, 1994.

 

[Mac128]

Scott, God bless you! We're getting closer. So at least the incompatibility problem is documented in a reasonably reliable source.

Based on the fact that the first edition of the User's Guide, which would have gone to press much earlier than the final System release, contains almost exactly the same details as on the Guided Tour disk, I'm still not convinced it was an 11th hour discovery. I think like the manual, they most likely decided not to spend limited resources fixing it and along with the manual, released it as it was figuring it was close enough.

Thanks again. Anyone else who finds supporting or conflicting references please do post them here!

 

[fatmac]

I'm glad to see so much interest in the original Mac concept. And this particular post is a very interesting subject. There is a little to straighten out on this subject and a good deal to add to it.

I don't believe there was a .85 or .xx whatever version for the 128k Mac. I ran the original version of the OS and it simply said Macintosh Software under get info for System and Finder. Versions 3-6 may have reported the early version as 1.0. But that is something possibly added after the fact. I certainly don't remember it happening or seeing that.

Anyone running Lisaworks or whatever most likely isn't running the original version I'm talking about. I give myself some wiggle room since I've never even seen or touched a Lisa. But Lisa lacked the ROM of a real Mac. No native Lisa can boot into a Macintosh environment. Another company stepped in and developed an environment that allowed enhanced ROM to load into RAM. This allowed the Lisa to then boot into the the Finder. This essentially makes the Lisa into a Plus with a 10 inch screen. Long story short...I doubt they ever made a version of Lisaworks that patched in the original unenhanced version of the Mac ROM like the ROM in a 128k or a 512k "FatMac". You would need this for the guided tour to work. So the poster with the Lisa means well. But is probably mistaken.

I have never heard of Schorr. But I read a good deal every single thing Pogue ever wrote on the subject of Mac from 1986 or 1987 to 1994. And he really didn't know very much about the Mac sadly. I'm sure he's well up to speed by now. For old references you may want to look up Bob Levitis I believe. He went by the name Dr. Macintosh. The ultimate reference is "A technical introduction to the macintosh" It's a volume from the hardware developers toolkit.

I however can tell you a butt-load about the tour. The differences between the early version of the Mac OS and it's 3.0 counterpart. I don't believe there was a 2.0 version of the Finder as it was simply called back then. But then there was a 5.0 that was almost hushed up. It was disastrously bad. At Apple stores there was a culture of "Don't mention it". So I give myself an out should proof of a 2.0 surface I have never seen or heard of it. Never attended an Apple user group meeting that discussed it. Nor talked to anyone who used it.

I'm fairly certain that setting versions wasn't a priority back then. And this probably accounts for much of the confusion concerning early versions of the Finder or System Software as it was also called. Remember you could only get this by going to an Apple store. It's possible there was a BBS in California or someplace. But you pretty much got what you could trade for, or get from an Apple store.

In any case version 3.2 was the most popular and most feature rich until version 4 appeared. But 3.0 changed the interface behavior and look slightly. It is true that in the Original Mac System Software, the folders were more rectangular. Also the animation of a folder opening and closing didn't woosh from the icon location to the edges of the screen. When you double clicked a folder the animation bounced to the middle of the desktop and then burst out to the edges of the screen. Of course when I say animation and wosh and burst, I'm really talking about a zoom rectangle. If ppl are still interested I will post more.

 

[Aoresteen]

If you have the fist CD issue of "Develop" it has all the systems software for the Mac on it (Except for 6.0.6 AFAICR). I don't know about the Tour Disk. I remember that .97 was on it; I think I pulled .85 off of my Tour disk.

Dang, I wish I had my Mac stuff here so I could check it

Anyone have the Develop #1 CD handy?

 

[Aoresteen]

Like most vintage Mac users, I've heard the story that the original 1984 Macintosh Guided Tour contains old-style icons and system features (indeed it is coded as System .85), because at the last minute Apple found a bug that prevented the Guided Tour from running under the final shipping operating System 1.0 (v.97). Of course that story makes complete sense, but is it true?

As I recall the Tour ran FULL screen and auto booted instead of the finder. It didn't follow the Mac UI. It was written to run on a 128K single 400K floppy drive. You had to work hard to see the the system stuff on the disk.

Does anyone know if it takes you to the Finder when you get to the end and quit? I just don't remember.

 

[Kallikak]

They upgraded the Tour disk very quickly, so there are two versions of the 128K tour - one with System 0.85, and one with System 1 (0.97). Although the Tour ran full screen after boot etc, one of the options allowed you to use the true Finder, and that is why we can reconstruct the standalone System. The 128K Tour distributed on Apple Developer CDs is the later of the two versions.

 

[Mac128]

I don't believe there was a .85 or .xx whatever version for the 128k Mac. I ran the original version of the OS and it simply said Macintosh Software under get info for System and Finder.

I doubt they ever made a version of Lisaworks that patched in the original unenhanced version of the Mac ROM like the ROM in a 128k or a 512k "FatMac".

In order to see the actual system version on the Guided Tour disk you have to use resedit and look at the resource code, where .85 and .97 are designated for the original MGT and System software. There is no question that Apple was using system versions internally during the development period. What I was asking was whether Apple really broke the Tour's compatibility with System .97 and only discovered it in the 11th hour.

As for the Lisa, MacWorks was introduced in April of 1984, LONG before the 128K ROM was introduced in the Mac Plus. As a result the Mac ROM code loaded into the Lisa RAM is most definitely the original 64K ROM of the Macintosh, 128K and 512K. Considering the Lisa was discontinued in 1985, it is doubtful Apple ever updated the ROM code in MacWorks, though Sun Remarketing certainly did. That is one of the reasons that MacWorks 3.0 cannot run much above System 3, just like the original 128K. Odds are, there are other mitigating reasons MacWorks cannot run the original MTG.

 

[slomacuser]

wanted to do a better quality but do not know how, anyway this is first 10 minutes of Guided Tour ...

 

[Mac128]

I had wanted to do this myself. What did you use to synchronize the audio and output a master?

The key I think is the correct capture feature. I just downloaded "CaptureIt!" and found it accurately captures the 512x342 pixels and compresses it perfectly. The resulting .mov loaded perfectly into GarageBand and GB output a file that was just as clear as the original. I may look into it as it is shareware.

I am of course assuming it looks pretty much the way it does on YouTube once you export it from your editing software.

 

[slomacuser]

I used Mini vMac (emulator), Snapz X Pro (screen capture), GuidedTour128k mp3 (sound file) and iMovie (montage and sync).

I had to edit the .mov files to add secs or remove them to sync it with the sound, so I made only first 10 minutes, it was so much of work ...

and I would like to see your completed work in HI-res as well