About 9 days ago, my 1400cs froze while I was using it so I restarted it and it would no longer boot. I booted off the OS 9 CD and it offered to initialize the disk. I declined and ran Disk First Aid on the disk. Note that I am using a 2GB Compact Flash card via a Compact Flash to IDE adaptor as a hard drive. It said "Problem: Keys out of order, 4,365" and Disk First Aid was unable to repair it. So I formatted the drive with Drive Setup and did a clean install of OS 9. It was fine until today. I started having problems with error messages, then the Finder could no longer be started because of something to do with the system file "ObjectSupportLib". So I booted off the OS 9 CD and ran Disk First Aid and got the same error only the number is 4,258. It still boots this time, but since the finder can't be started, it doesn't really matter. This could be a coincidence, but this happened both times while I was working with MacWrite files I wrote on my Macintosh Plus and transferred over via floppy. Why did this happen ago so soon? Is it a problem with using a compact flash card as a hard drive? Or a problem with the compact flash card?
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1400cs file system corruption
- Thread starter sega dude
- Start date
techknight
Well-known member
the compact flash card is starting to go bad.
I have 3 compact flash cards myself, and they are riddled with nothing but problems. They really arnt designed for what we are putting them through. I dont know if the built-in controller supports wear leveling or not. Its hard to say. I would say the cheaper cards probably dont have built in wear leveling, or they are using REALLY cheap flash memory.
Some of the flash memory used in consumer devices have bad flash blocks right off the semiconductor assembly line. That cheaper flash memory makes its way into consumer devices such as this.
The Nintendo Wii was notorious for having bad flash blocks when new, usually they are marked and mapped out as bad so the system doesnt attempt to use them. Same thing with the PS3, The PS3 would actually develop bad flash blocks as time went on and as a direct result, it would display the red screen of death. Not all units did this though, there was a particular manufacturer they used for the flash memory, and those models were the ones that caused problems. Others were not.
The same thing still happens. The cheap throw-away USB sticks, and CF/SSD cards use the low grade flash memory which have bad blocks new right from the manufacturer. Flash memory is sold in grades if I am not mistaken. Low grade has bad blocks, and high grade is perfect but MUCH more expensive.
If it was up to me, and if they ever existed (which I dont think they did), I would have use CF based battery-backed SRAM cards.
I have 3 compact flash cards myself, and they are riddled with nothing but problems. They really arnt designed for what we are putting them through. I dont know if the built-in controller supports wear leveling or not. Its hard to say. I would say the cheaper cards probably dont have built in wear leveling, or they are using REALLY cheap flash memory.
Some of the flash memory used in consumer devices have bad flash blocks right off the semiconductor assembly line. That cheaper flash memory makes its way into consumer devices such as this.
The Nintendo Wii was notorious for having bad flash blocks when new, usually they are marked and mapped out as bad so the system doesnt attempt to use them. Same thing with the PS3, The PS3 would actually develop bad flash blocks as time went on and as a direct result, it would display the red screen of death. Not all units did this though, there was a particular manufacturer they used for the flash memory, and those models were the ones that caused problems. Others were not.
The same thing still happens. The cheap throw-away USB sticks, and CF/SSD cards use the low grade flash memory which have bad blocks new right from the manufacturer. Flash memory is sold in grades if I am not mistaken. Low grade has bad blocks, and high grade is perfect but MUCH more expensive.
If it was up to me, and if they ever existed (which I dont think they did), I would have use CF based battery-backed SRAM cards.
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Elfen
Well-known member
SRAM cards in CF format would be great. Too bad they only come in PCMCIA format. But would it solve some problems with CFs?
I'm not pointing a finger of blame to anyone here, SSDS are sensitive to static and power spikes, more so than the rest of the system with CF's being that much more sensitive.
SegaDude, how long have you had this set up running, and where you got this CF from?
I know that when errors happens on SSDs and on CFs, they happen quite fast and without warning.
TechKnight, I know that "Modern" CFs supports wear leveling and bad block blocking, with Modern being any thing from 2005 - 2008, depending on the manufacturer. But there are many older cards being sold as new that do not have these "Modern" options on them/ Furthermore, counterfeiting of CFs is quite high, where you think you are buying a name brand with such protections when it is a cheap knock off with nothing to protect the data within. Worse are "high milage" used CF cards being sold new, one can not tell how often CF was written too since there are no "odometers" on them. If anything, peeling off their metal cover might give you the age of the chips by its date codes but that's it.
Most of my systems are on SSDs with 1/2 of them on CFs since 2005 or before. I do keep a weary eye on them, knowing that some would begin failure soon but so far I've been lucky.
Personally, I would like to know what and how it happened.
I'm not pointing a finger of blame to anyone here, SSDS are sensitive to static and power spikes, more so than the rest of the system with CF's being that much more sensitive.
SegaDude, how long have you had this set up running, and where you got this CF from?
I know that when errors happens on SSDs and on CFs, they happen quite fast and without warning.
TechKnight, I know that "Modern" CFs supports wear leveling and bad block blocking, with Modern being any thing from 2005 - 2008, depending on the manufacturer. But there are many older cards being sold as new that do not have these "Modern" options on them/ Furthermore, counterfeiting of CFs is quite high, where you think you are buying a name brand with such protections when it is a cheap knock off with nothing to protect the data within. Worse are "high milage" used CF cards being sold new, one can not tell how often CF was written too since there are no "odometers" on them. If anything, peeling off their metal cover might give you the age of the chips by its date codes but that's it.
Most of my systems are on SSDs with 1/2 of them on CFs since 2005 or before. I do keep a weary eye on them, knowing that some would begin failure soon but so far I've been lucky.
Personally, I would like to know what and how it happened.
Last edited by a moderator:
techknight
Well-known member
Here is the problem with bad blocks in flash. Any flash memory that has a block that is bad, will be corrupt with no chance of error recovery or anything. its just corrupt, marked, and blocked.
That also means the data that was inside that block, is now toast. What if that was the partition information? boot sector? or critical system file? Well it breaks. lol.
That also means the data that was inside that block, is now toast. What if that was the partition information? boot sector? or critical system file? Well it breaks. lol.
Elfen
Well-known member
True Techknight. But such areas are not always written unless a virus hits the system. The directories are a weak point as they are constantly updated with every file write. but they should be able to take 1-million writes in most cases.
68kAlex, yes, an industrial CF is better for longevity and more file writes. Many name brands have industrial versions of their products.
SegaDude, that CF looks old. Bought it used from ebay? It looks like it went through a lot of mileage! Question for you, SegaDude, you had Virtual Memory on with the CF?
68kAlex, yes, an industrial CF is better for longevity and more file writes. Many name brands have industrial versions of their products.
SegaDude, that CF looks old. Bought it used from ebay? It looks like it went through a lot of mileage! Question for you, SegaDude, you had Virtual Memory on with the CF?
