Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
So cool, just do it! Things appear to be SIMMering very nicely on this front! [
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Updated 2023-07-12: Hello, Guest! Welcome back, and be sure to check out this follow-up post about our outage a week or so ago.
030 powered 512k, thoughts on maker?
- Thread starter unity
- Start date
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
THX! [] ]'> I know it's been Holiday Season, but have any of you lucky three had the chance to take a stab at getting the Quick30Plus up and running. The info Bolle provided is a treasure trove for this project. I used RAMdisk+ back in the day, great stuff. That alone sounds like it's getting the job done in setting the onboard SIMMs up in Silicon Disk mode. Add Compact Virtual and you're in extended RAM heaven for the Compact series.
< /impatient mode >
] ]'> I know it's been Holiday Season, but have any of you lucky three had the chance to take a stab at getting the Quick30Plus up and running. The info Bolle provided is a treasure trove for this project. I used RAMdisk+ back in the day, great stuff. That alone sounds like it's getting the job done in setting the onboard SIMMs up in Silicon Disk mode. Add Compact Virtual and you're in extended RAM heaven for the Compact series.< /impatient mode >
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techknight
Well-known member
My accelerator came in the Plus upgraded 512k, and a HyperDrive 2000 Sticker which the drive is long gone, but its power supply and fan wasnt. But they did leave that little "gem" inside there.
I think I paid $15 for the machine at hamvention.
I think I paid $15 for the machine at hamvention.
Bolle
Well-known member
So I got around to installing Compact Virtual 3.0.2 on the SE with the Total Systems card.
The installer will ask you what kind of card you have in your machine and will automatically set the correct amount of RAM to be used as virtual RAM in the control panel.
It also disables the "Use RAM >4MB as RAM disk in finder" option in the accelerator control panel.
In System 6 it now shows up with 8MB RAM (4MB+4MB - my Total Systems only supports 4MB)
In System 7.1 it also shows 8MB but things are looking a bit strange. The unused RAM does not show up correctly and I am not sure if the OS can use all of the 8MB. Then again I think that Compact Virtual never really supported System 7 that well.
I will test the Novy as soon as the caps for my analog board arrive. The Classic is spread out in parts around the house right now.
The installer will ask you what kind of card you have in your machine and will automatically set the correct amount of RAM to be used as virtual RAM in the control panel.
It also disables the "Use RAM >4MB as RAM disk in finder" option in the accelerator control panel.
In System 6 it now shows up with 8MB RAM (4MB+4MB - my Total Systems only supports 4MB)
In System 7.1 it also shows 8MB but things are looking a bit strange. The unused RAM does not show up correctly and I am not sure if the OS can use all of the 8MB. Then again I think that Compact Virtual never really supported System 7 that well.
I will test the Novy as soon as the caps for my analog board arrive. The Classic is spread out in parts around the house right now.
Bolle
Well-known member
Adding some pictures:
System 6 about dialog
Compact Virtual Panel
View attachment 11137
Compact Virtual explanation on how it moves around the hardware addresses
Gemstart control panel - notice the disabled "Copy ROM to RAM" option. This has been disabled since I installed Compact Virtual because memory addressing magic is now handled by Virtual and not the accelerator init.
I did the same in System 7.1:
About Dialog - notice how the system notices that there is something "wrong" with RAM. Instead of just displaying 8MB like System 6 it shows that it is using virtual memory on the HDD.
Accelerator Control panel - notice how the RAM disk option is currently not active even though boot settings say it should have been activated. This is due to Compact Virtual - most probably - using the RAM disk for VM in the background. This different driver allows the ROM to RAM thing even though Compact Virtual is installed. I just had the idea that this most probably explains the difference in "unused memory" in the about panel. If you add up the numbers for "used by system", "free" and the size of the ROM you end up with roughly 8MB as well. So at least this - to me - mystery has been solved.
View attachment 11141
I am still not 100% sure if it really is using the RAM Disk as VM, as Compact Virtual also puts a swap file with the size of the complete RAM size on the HDD.
But I did some benchmarks already yesterday:
1. Compact Virtual disabled
2. Compact Virtual enabled set to 8MB - so only "real" RAM used
3. Compact Virtual enabled set to 16MB - using 8MB real RAM and 8MB VM on the HDD
From fastest to slowest the outcome was 1->2->3. So at least to me this seems as if Compact Virtual is indeed using the motherboard RAM (and additional RAM - say >4MB - from your accelerator) for virtual memory.
I will do this test again with the Novy as soon as the Classic is up and running again.
System 6 about dialog
Compact Virtual Panel
View attachment 11137
Compact Virtual explanation on how it moves around the hardware addresses
Gemstart control panel - notice the disabled "Copy ROM to RAM" option. This has been disabled since I installed Compact Virtual because memory addressing magic is now handled by Virtual and not the accelerator init.
I did the same in System 7.1:
About Dialog - notice how the system notices that there is something "wrong" with RAM. Instead of just displaying 8MB like System 6 it shows that it is using virtual memory on the HDD.
Accelerator Control panel - notice how the RAM disk option is currently not active even though boot settings say it should have been activated. This is due to Compact Virtual - most probably - using the RAM disk for VM in the background. This different driver allows the ROM to RAM thing even though Compact Virtual is installed. I just had the idea that this most probably explains the difference in "unused memory" in the about panel. If you add up the numbers for "used by system", "free" and the size of the ROM you end up with roughly 8MB as well. So at least this - to me - mystery has been solved.
View attachment 11141
I am still not 100% sure if it really is using the RAM Disk as VM, as Compact Virtual also puts a swap file with the size of the complete RAM size on the HDD.
But I did some benchmarks already yesterday:
1. Compact Virtual disabled
2. Compact Virtual enabled set to 8MB - so only "real" RAM used
3. Compact Virtual enabled set to 16MB - using 8MB real RAM and 8MB VM on the HDD
From fastest to slowest the outcome was 1->2->3. So at least to me this seems as if Compact Virtual is indeed using the motherboard RAM (and additional RAM - say >4MB - from your accelerator) for virtual memory.
I will do this test again with the Novy as soon as the Classic is up and running again.
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Bolle
Well-known member
And another one - I did a quick and dirty "scan" of the manual that came with my Novy as I found this to be a quite interesting read.
Novy Quik30-compressed.pdf
Novy Quik30-compressed.pdf
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techknight
Well-known member
Too bad its the wrong board, its for a Classic. The one we have is for 128/512/plus
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
Pretty much.
edit: can't read the text, but the results look a little like you might need MODE32 to access more than the 8MB of RAM you say you're getting.
edit: can't read the text, but the results look a little like you might need MODE32 to access more than the 8MB of RAM you say you're getting.
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james_w
Well-known member
Could you share where you found the installer for Compact Virtual and for GemStart 3.0? (I have the control panels on an SE but not the installers themselves)
Thanks!
unity
Well-known member
Well this was a waste of a couple hours. First problem was not knowing what system version I could use. So I went with 6.0.7 but I just could not get it to boot without a Finder is damaged or busy issue. Im using Gemstart 2.1 by Total Systems as is says it works with Novy Quick30. The init does show and then zoom across the screen, but then the issue. Im going to have to try some more system image files or something. Anyway, bed time.
Bolle
Well-known member
I am only using gemstart 2.1 as the download link dor gemstart 3 on the driver museum seems to be dead. Compact Virtual can be found on gambas site.Could you share where you found the installer for Compact Virtual and for GemStart 3.0? (I have the control panels on an SE but not the installers themselves)
Thanks!
Bolle
Well-known member
Just found a copy of Gemstart 3.0 here -> ftp://ftp.heise.de/pub/ct/projekte/gemstart.sit
Then just for reference Gemstart 2.1 is here -> http://vintageapple.org/macdrivers/accel/gemstart.sit
The latest Systech driver I could find so far (5.42) is on the driver museum as well -> http://vintageapple.org/macdrivers/railgun.hqx
There are supposed to be later versions as well, but I could not find those yet. The Compact Virtual readme states that versions up to 4.98 of the Systech driver should exist.
The 5.42 download on the driver museum contains version 3.5 as well, which may work better with System 6. I had 6.0.7 crash with 5.42 but it seems to work fine with 5.35, which is the version on the floppy that came with my Novy board.
I did also try the Systech 3.5 driver in 6.0.7 but with this one Compact Virtual would crash.
I am also still having sound issues with both, the Novy and the Total Systems/Quesse board (which are supposed to be based on the same design anyways) no matter what combination of OS (6.0.7, 7.0.1, 7.1, 7.5.5) and driver I try.
The supposed 7.0.1 sound fix from the Systech driver also does nothing but slow down everything. The sound is getting a little bit less worse with the patch loaded, but distortion and pops are still there.
It seems like they tried to slow things down via wait states or something so that the sound manager could keep up with the calls to it beeing done faster than what it was designed for.
I did put up an image of my Systech 5.35 driver floppy here in case someone wants to tinker with that one: http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=54467431024269080251
Then just for reference Gemstart 2.1 is here -> http://vintageapple.org/macdrivers/accel/gemstart.sit
The latest Systech driver I could find so far (5.42) is on the driver museum as well -> http://vintageapple.org/macdrivers/railgun.hqx
There are supposed to be later versions as well, but I could not find those yet. The Compact Virtual readme states that versions up to 4.98 of the Systech driver should exist.
The 5.42 download on the driver museum contains version 3.5 as well, which may work better with System 6. I had 6.0.7 crash with 5.42 but it seems to work fine with 5.35, which is the version on the floppy that came with my Novy board.
I did also try the Systech 3.5 driver in 6.0.7 but with this one Compact Virtual would crash.
I am also still having sound issues with both, the Novy and the Total Systems/Quesse board (which are supposed to be based on the same design anyways) no matter what combination of OS (6.0.7, 7.0.1, 7.1, 7.5.5) and driver I try.
The supposed 7.0.1 sound fix from the Systech driver also does nothing but slow down everything. The sound is getting a little bit less worse with the patch loaded, but distortion and pops are still there.
It seems like they tried to slow things down via wait states or something so that the sound manager could keep up with the calls to it beeing done faster than what it was designed for.
I did put up an image of my Systech 5.35 driver floppy here in case someone wants to tinker with that one: http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=54467431024269080251
Bolle
Well-known member
Some more messing with the various drivers it turns out that either of the Dove, Mobius, Applied Engineering, Extreme Systems or Radius are all either based on Gemstart or the Systech driver.
The Mobius one seems to be the newest of those named above (Systech 4.99) and it works with 6.0.7, 7.0.1 and 7.1 for me.
The Mobius one seems to be the newest of those named above (Systech 4.99) and it works with 6.0.7, 7.0.1 and 7.1 for me.
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
IIRC, Novy OEM'd Accelerators for Total Systems, a mail order distributor. Two page spread in 'World & 'User issues but no catalog with the equivalent of the very cute Kerry on the cover arriving monthly. :-/
james_w
Well-known member
MOS8_030
Well-known member
Did you ever get this accelerator card working?
I'm messing with mine and not having a lot of luck.
Mine doesn't want to boot with any of the drivers I've tried.
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