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I actually use BBEdit on my modern Mac and have thought about possibly putting BBEdit on the compact Macs, but I'm not sure. I don't think I'll be writing HTML code on them very often, leaving that up to my modern MacBook Pro. However, I'm currently working on writing content for a section of my website I'm revamping shortly using Word 4.0 and converting it to RTF files when completed. I may even write my blog post discussing the FloppyEmu using the Classic and Word 4.0 or the SE and TeachText. (I may use TeachText on the SE because I feel the SE hasn't got much use. Unfortunately, with just 1 MB of memory and only being able to read double-density/800k disk images, I don't think I can load Word or even MacWrite 2 on it.)

 

In regards to the MacPaint Files and converting them: I was looking at the thread you're referencing lately. It appears GraphicConverter costs $40, which is kind of steep personally to just transfer MacPaint files to a JPG or something similar. PICTure This was another solution offered, but according to @benanderson89it doesn't work very well. It's not the end of the world.

 

In re ConcertWare: I'll post a picture sometime tonight or this weekend when I have some more free time to do so, but on the Classic and Mini vMac it would show the folders but none of the contents - which I'm assuming means it is expecting a certain file type. I have two .mid files in both folders for testing, but neither show up. Earlier this summer I found out a key combination which "forces" the Finder/open dialog box to show all files. But even then I don't think it would open, and I don't remember the key combination.

 

The Macintosh Garden page for ConcertWare says that it was tested and works on an SE FDHD. A comment seemed to echo that, pointing out that you can have the software play the MIDI file without the need for any external MIDI devices. (Which is what I want.) So I'm guessing it's a problem on my end/user error and not a problem with the software itself.

 

Is there any other MIDI playback programs for System 6? I know with System 7 your options are more plentiful, but I have no plans to stick System 7 on either of these machines.

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Sorry for double post, I hit 'Submit' before I meant to.

 

1 hour ago, Garrett said:

In re ConcertWare: I'll post a picture sometime tonight or this weekend when I have some more free time to do so, but on the Classic and Mini vMac it would show the folders but none of the contents - which I'm assuming means it is expecting a certain file type. I have two .mid files in both folders for testing, but neither show up. Earlier this summer I found out a key combination which "forces" the Finder/open dialog box to show all files. But even then I don't think it would open, and I don't remember the key combination.

 

Finding the expected file type is pretty straightforward as a spelunking exercise with ResEdit :-).  Have you done that before / would you like pointers?

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11 hours ago, Garrett said:

is it even possible to get music (such as MP3 or WAV files) converted to a format that these old Macs can play, despite being really low-quality and having lots of dither? Or are my goals just too far out there?

No, they're not, but MP3s won't play very well, if at all, so you'd have to convert to WAV (or, more specifically, AIFF, as that's the format used on early Macintoshes;  it's more or less equivalent to standard WAV files (as seen primarily on contemporary PCs), but there are a few minor differences because Apple wanted to be different (Macs and PCs had since standardized on PC-style WAV sometime in the late 90s (and then of course MP3s, once the average Mac or PC became fast enough to decode them efficiently), so this difference has become moot)).

 

So, basically, when you do encode your music into that format, you want to match the capabilities of the Classic's and SE's sound hardware, which are as follows:

  • Sample rate: 22,050 kHz
  • Bit depth: 8-bit
  • Channels: 1 (Mono)

It won't sound great compared to a modern system, but that's all the Compacts' audio hardware is capable of.

 

c

Edited by CC_333
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8 hours ago, cheesestraws said:

Sorry for double post, I hit 'Submit' before I meant to.

 

 

Finding the expected file type is pretty straightforward as a spelunking exercise with ResEdit :-).  Have you done that before / would you like pointers?

I've never used ResEdit, but having to go a roundabout way is probably a red flag that modern .mid files will not work with ConcertWare MIDI Player. The MIDI files play just fine under Arnold's MIDI Player, but that requires System 7 and QuickTime.

 

7 hours ago, CC_333 said:

No, they're not, but MP3s won't play very well, if at all, so you'd have to convert to WAV (or, more specifically, AIFF, as that's the format used on early Macintoshes;  it's more or less equivalent to standard WAV files (as seen primarily on contemporary PCs), but there are a few minor differences because Apple wanted to be different (Macs and PCs had since standardized on PC-style WAV sometime in the late 90s (and then of course MP3s, once the average Mac or PC became fast enough to decode them efficiently), so this difference has become moot)).

 

So, basically, when you do encode your music into that format, you want to match the capabilities of the Classic's and SE's sound hardware, which are as follows:

  • Sample rate: 22,050 kHz
  • Bit depth: 8-bit
  • Channels: 1 (Mono)

It won't sound great compared to a modern system, but that's all the Compacts' audio hardware is capable of.

 

c

It's one of those things that I want to do just to be able to do it, there's no reason behind it and it doesn't need to sound great. (In fact, I know it's not going to sound great.) I'm assuming you'd mix the audio file to the specs (22kHz, 8-bit depth, mono) and export as an AIFF in a modern DAW such as Audacity or Adobe Audition. How do you play it on the Mac? What software is used in System 6 to open such a file, or do you still need System 7 and something like QuickTime?

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@Garrett Yes, you'd take your audio file of choice, mix it down to mono, and encode it to 22kHz AIFF. 

 

Ideally, you'd use an older DAW to do it (Cool Edit Pro would work, for example), but anything that can encode to AIFF should work well enough. 

 

What System 6-compatible software can play it once on the Mac?  I'm not sure.  Maybe try browsing Macintosh Garden?

 

EDIT:  just did a little checking, and it looks like Quicktime 1.0 may run on System 6.  Not sure if it'll rum on a 68000, though. 

 

c

Edited by CC_333
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OK!  I have spent some time browsing Macintosh Garden,?and I think I may have figured out something you could try!

 

First, download this and use it to convert a WAV file to a System 7 Sound file: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/balthazar

 

And then download this and use it to play the resulting snd file on System 6: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/7th-symphony

 

It's a bit kludgy, but I think it might work. 

 

I will try it myself in mini vMac when I get access to my computer later this evening. 

 

c

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Unfortunately, it didn't work - at least in Basilisk II and Mini vMac. In Basilisk, 7th Symphony gave me an error when trying to play the converted (3 second) clip. In Mini vMac, System 6 couldn't even open the weird file formats 7th Symphony is in. So I guess that's the end of the road... oh well, it's not the biggest deal. I still can't figure out ConcertWare and I guess that, too, is the end of the road. Thanks for your suggestions - it's greatly appreciated.

 

In other audio-related shenanigans, I noticed the audio output on my 1988 Macintosh SE seems to be really hot, as previously mentioned. Even on the 1 setting it seems to play really loud. I also found out (although earlier... had this happen on my Classic with a game, I believe Crystal Quest) that some software seems to "override" the volume setting in the Control Panel. Both with Crystal Quest that one time and tonight with another program, I had the computer muted and it still played sound and seemed to offer no adjustments for volume.

 

Tonight I had a little more time to play around with the FloppyEmu, mostly with the SE since the Classic is the one usually getting all the love. (But at least the Classic doesn't look like a block of cheddar and smell like a cigarette factory.) I played around with some of the more obscure games (at least obscure to me) already pre-loaded on the FloppyEmu, such as MacMan. MacMan is a pretty nice spin on the PacMan concept with some interesting nods to Apple's competitors at the time like IBM and AT&T. I also played around in MacDraw and The Print Shop. I created a PICT file in MacDraw but it doesn't render correctly on modern systems.

 

My next goal is to try to get HD-20 emulation up and running on the FloppyEmu. I kinda want to play with PageMaker or Illustrator but don't know how those will run on 68000 machines with 1-2 MB of memory. (I still haven't been successful at installing the additional 2MB SIMMs in the Classic. I'm starting to wonder if those SIMMs are even good.)

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Hmm, I'm sorry it didn't work. 

 

I don't think it's the end of the road, but it does seem that perhaps, barring any new information, it's more trouble than it's worth. 

 

Are you able/willing to run 7 on one of your compacts?  It's slower, but it's also potentially much more useful, as you can then use things like Quicktime (provided your version of choice supports 68000-based Macs).

 

I'll look into it some more and see what I can come up with. 

 

c

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It's not really that big of a deal. As for System 7, I've thought about it but I'm hesitant to. The Classic is still running its factory installation of 6.0.7 and I'm not really wanting to upgrade from that because I don't want to get rid of the volume. I could probably run System 7 on my SE, but I only have enough memory to bring it to 3 MB, and it lacks an internal hard drive. (Though with the addition of the FloppyEmu and HD-20 support, I'm guessing that's not a huge issue.) Even then, I believe QuickTime requires at least a 68020, which I don't have.

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  • 2 months later...

January has been a superb month for my collection, and it's not over. Tomorrow I'm making the ~60-mile journey over into Kansas to pick up a PowerBook Duo 270c, details to come tomorrow night when I return. Earlier this month, I acquired an Apple ImageWriter II for my Macintosh Classic/SE to share.

 

However, today's "haul" includes something sentimental to me and something new. I haven't wrote a post on my blog for this yet, so y'all are getting the "sneak peek." (After posting this, I'm going to have to run to class. Post will be up later tonight, and I'll either edit this post or reply with a separate comment with a link to my post. You can also follow me on Twitter to see updates with my collection - including a sneak peak to the 270c - and my blog.)

 

Anyways, here we go. A lot of Twitter embeds, as I don't want to consume too much server space here.

 

I'm going to start this first item off with a little backstory. As a junior in high school (in the middle of my first Apple craze, around the time I joined 68kMLA) I toured my current university. As we were walking through the library, I looked through the frosted glass windows of one of the offices to spot a computer in the shape of a compact Mac. I never saw that machine again, until late October 2019 when it was located in a display case. I posted a picture of it on my personal Twitter.

 

Fast forward to last week, when I reached out to a librarian about who owned this computer. She connected me with the owner, who seems to be an interesting guy as his computer programming skills all started with a Commodore 64. He used to run the computer commons in the library. I told him about my collection, and he told me about the two vintage Macs he owned - both of which he bought new back in graduate school in Texas. Later in the course of our discussions, he randomly asked me if I'd be interested in adding two computers to my collection. I said sure.

 

Yesterday he sent me an email telling me they were ready to pick up. I was excited and bewildered at the same time, but nonetheless went to pick them up. I had to wait to this morning to pick them up, waking up at 8:30 a.m. (The only time I've ever been excited to wake up early.)

 

 

 

After getting back home, I was able to look closer at the machines. While the Macintosh SE isn't anything new to me (I already own one...) the System Saver interested me. On the back, there's an expansion port of some kind. The PowerBook 165 looks to be an excellent condition and appears to be rarely used, as even the port door is still intact. Unfortunately, he didn't have the power supply for the PB so I'm not able to test it until I find one.

 

 

Back to the SE, which was the computer that is sentimental to me. I took off the System Saver and programmer's switch to pop the bucket off and have a look inside before plugging it in. There's definitely an expansion card of some sort, which prevented me from pulling the logic board out. I have big, fat hands and this machine has a hard drive. I wasn't able to reach in to disconnect the main power supply connector, anyways. Any ideas on how to make that easier? I was able to get everything else unplugged.

 

 

Trusting that nothing was damaged, I plugged the SE and the System Saver in for testing. The System Saver works and while the fan was noisy at the beginning, it quoted down to the low hum that is only slightly louder than the fan in my SE.

 

 

Which brings me to the final part. This thing must have an upgraded processor, and it must be something powerful. This thing FLIES. It has a password protection screen, which I was able to bypass by disabling extensions during startup. The Maxtor hard drive, while noisy, still seems to work perfectly. This thing is much faster than the sluggish 68000 I know and love. And it has way more memory than the max 4 MB you'd find in the stock SE... it appears to have 16 MB installed. Lots of extensions installed. I'm super curious now to find out what processor/expansion port this thing has installed.

 

 

I'm calling this thing the "SuperSE." It's a 1988 just like my other SE, and was also made in Fremont, California. (Though it appears this SE was made in March/April 1988, while my other SE was made in May '88.)

 

Now my vintage Mac collection is at 4 machines... and hopefully will be at 5 tomorrow. This time last year, I had 0 vintage machines in my collection.

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Finally made it back from classes/work to sit down and play around some more with the "SuperSE." This thing is loaded with old software and files... I'll have to make a backup and make sure none are missing from Macintosh Garden/Macintosh Repository/etc.

 

There is some slight screen burn-in on the SE. But the display seems to be fairly crisp otherwise.

 

The Kensington System Saver, as I mention (but you can't really hear) in the video in my post above, is a little on the loud side. It makes an ominous rattling/rumbling sound after it gets going for a couple minutes, then it quits and is pretty quiet.

 

Files present on the machine give the impression it was used from 1988 to 1995/96.

 

Edit: Does anyone know how to permanently disable/remove the password extension thing? I'd like for it to boot normally with all extensions, but don't know the password. They had top-notch security back in the day... almost reminds me of the locked gates that have a giant space next to them that allow you to fit your hand through to unlock and enter.

Edited by Garrett
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3 hours ago, Garrett said:

Finally made it back from classes/work to sit down and play around some more with the "SuperSE." This thing is loaded with old software and files... I'll have to make a backup and make sure none are missing from Macintosh Garden/Macintosh Repository/etc.

 

There is some slight screen burn-in on the SE. But the display seems to be fairly crisp otherwise.

 

The Kensington System Saver, as I mention (but you can't really hear) in the video in my post above, is a little on the loud side. It makes an ominous rattling/rumbling sound after it gets going for a couple minutes, then it quits and is pretty quiet.

 

Files present on the machine give the impression it was used from 1988 to 1995/96.

 

Edit: Does anyone know how to permanently disable/remove the password extension thing? I'd like for it to boot normally with all extensions, but don't know the password. They had top-notch security back in the day... almost reminds me of the locked gates that have a giant space next to them that allow you to fit your hand through to unlock and enter.

 

if it's an extension or control panel, can't you just locate the suspect file after booting without extensions and then drop it in the trash?

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What Matt said, but usually my MO is this: when I get a machine with a working HD, I connect it somehow via network or external SCSI to another drive. I then make a DiskCopy image of the entire HD. I then proceed to reformat the entire thing and install a fresh system on a blank HD. At my leasure, I can then peruse the old stuff and reintroduce things if I wish.

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Sorry for the double post. Found out this thing has a Mobius 030 accelerator card with a Motorola 68030 processor... bringing it on-par with the SE/30 spec-wise. Apparently there's also the option to add an external monitor to this thing, which may be what the port on the back is for. Anyone know if you can get an adapter for it, or do you need one of the special Mobius monitors?

 

The floppy drive is really crusty... it's filled with lots of dust. (Just a standard 800k drive.) I'm about to plug in my FloppyEmu to do a backup (this time I'm going to ask the original owner if he may want his files just as a keepsake.) There are LOTS of files and software, so it's probably going to take a while. The original owner must've kept programming, as this thing has ThinkC installed with a couple sample software written in C that I can't get to work. He (or someone else in his family who used this machine, as different name but same last name) must've been into music, because there are tons of music papers and a dissertation on here.

 

My goal for this machine is to test System 7 on it and maybe, just maybe, get QuickTime and Arnold's MIDI Player running. The former is definitely possible (I was running System 7.1 on my Classic just a couple days ago) but the later may be a slight stretch, since my only experience with AMP is in Basilisk II emulating a Quadra 950 '040 with 128 MB RAM. This thing has a '030 with 16 MB RAM.

 

Questions on the SE:

  1. Any tips for disassembling this thing, or at least removing the logic board without breaking anything? I got the HD and floppy connectors disconnected, but couldn't really reach the main power connector to unplug it. My hand kept touching the neck board and I was super afraid I may accidentally hit it, damaging (destroying) the CRT. Then there's the accelerator card, which seems to be a tight fit - along with the ribbon cable going to that port on the rear.

As for the PowerBook 165, does anyone know where I can find a power supply to use it with? The hinge on it is pretty crusty as well, and PowerBook 1xx models worry me because they're notorious for having hinges, plastics, and displays that fail. Any tips for keeping it in decent condition, besides the obvious "lock it in a cabinet and only look at it when you absolutely have to" reply?

 

Also TIL the PowerBook 165 uses the Motorola 68030. I thought the entire PowerBook 1xx line used the 68000, but I'm guessing I was dead wrong. I'm not super familiar with the PowerBooks as laptops are not my thing, although in my situation they're nice because they take up less space and are portable. (But difficult to work on and really easy to damage.)

 

I would've never guessed this SE had a '030 accelerator card and so much installed in it. Crazy...

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2 hours ago, mattsoft said:

 

if it's an extension or control panel, can't you just locate the suspect file after booting without extensions and then drop it in the trash?

Problem right now is trying to locate the specific extension. (I've looked in the control panel and I couldn't find anything relating to passwords.) The only thing I could find that might possibly relate is "Finder(keys)" that was located in the system folder.

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Re: disassembly - yes, indeed, the logic board to analog board connector can be fraught with danger due to the proximity to the CRT neck. In my opinion, you are actually safer taking the neck board off if unsure because 1. It makes the clearance greater, and 2. It takes away a source of a 90 degree sheer force on the back of the CRT. With time, you will develop your own technique to pull it without damage. As for the card, id remove the daughter board (with the monitor connector) and it’s ribbon or whatever connects it first. Then, you should be able to slide out the logic board and the accelerator (I assume

it sits right on top of the logic board). One note: these logic boards don’t slide out like the Plus. They slide out maybe an inch, and then if you look at the frame, one side of rails the board slides on is keyed: indentations that match up with indentations on the logic board perfectly if it is lined up right. Once they are lined up, swing the logic board out from the keyed side and it should pull out entirely. One note: once you swing it out a Little, you will likely feel resistance. That is the speaker audio cable still connected. Be sure to detach this prior to swinging the board all the way out, or you could bend the pins on the male logic board jack.

 

As did the floppy drive, I’ve got a video guide you can use:

 

 

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3 hours ago, LaPorta said:

Re: disassembly - yes, indeed, the logic board to analog board connector can be fraught with danger due to the proximity to the CRT neck. In my opinion, you are actually safer taking the neck board off if unsure because 1. It makes the clearance greater, and 2. It takes away a source of a 90 degree sheer force on the back of the CRT. With time, you will develop your own technique to pull it without damage. As for the card, id remove the daughter board (with the monitor connector) and it’s ribbon or whatever connects it first. Then, you should be able to slide out the logic board and the accelerator (I assume

it sits right on top of the logic board). One note: these logic boards don’t slide out like the Plus. They slide out maybe an inch, and then if you look at the frame, one side of rails the board slides on is keyed: indentations that match up with indentations on the logic board perfectly if it is lined up right. Once they are lined up, swing the logic board out from the keyed side and it should pull out entirely. One note: once you swing it out a Little, you will likely feel resistance. That is the speaker audio cable still connected. Be sure to detach this prior to swinging the board all the way out, or you could bend the pins on the male logic board jack.

I've spent the past four hours typing the post for my blog on the SuperSE, so I'm sorry for the delayed reply. :cool:

 

I will remember to remove the neck board (and obviously discharge the CRT prior to that) when servicing.

 

I learned the hard way on how these SE logic boards slide out... with my other SE I pulled out like on my Classic, and bent the speaker connectors. (It's fine, it bent back into shape and works fine.) I actually like that design and how it conveniently flips out for servicing. However, this one doesn't want to slide up enough for it to clear the rail... it actually doesn't really want to move far. But that may be caused by the power connector.

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4 hours ago, LaPorta said:

Yes. You can barely budge the board unless the connector is out of the way.

That makes sense. At some point I'll discharge the CRT and pull the neck board off to remove that connector and pull the logic board out.

 

The post is online, in case anyone is interested. It took me about 4 hours to write, but I got it done. Today feels like I'm in a time paradox as every time I looked at the clock a couple hours had passed. :lol: http://personal.garrettfuller.org/blog/2021/01/22/introducing-the-macintosh-se-superse-powerbook-165/

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As mentioned in my "Duo 270c: Yay or nay?" post, I made the 70-mile journey to Overland Park, KS yesterday to pick up this PowerBook Duo 270c. It came with the power supply and a battery, but nothing else - unfortunately, no docking station. It appears to be in pretty good condition, but I haven't looked at it too terribly much (I was exhausted yesterday after returning, and have a lot to do today and these next couple days.) As per everyone's advice, I'm not going to attempt to power it on until I have it recapped due to the supposed risk of shorts that can fry some 5 volt components.

 

I try to do "introduction" posts on my blog about all of my finds, but this one will probably have to wait. My followers on Twitter (and the people reading this and my 270c post, obviously) know that I've picked it up.

 

duo_open.jpg

 

My 68030 machines now outnumber my 68000 machines... 3-2.

 

On a slightly unrelated note, in OPKS we passed right by Micro Center, which is essentially the Midwestern equivalent to Fry's Electronics. I decided to stop in and look around, and I'm glad I did. Here in Mid-Missouri, computer parts stores are very scarce - unless you count Best Buy. Micro Center had almost anything people working on computers or electronics would need - soldering irons, oscilloscopes, a wide selection of Raspberry Pi and Arduino modules, and even arcade cabinet kits. Of course they sell computers, but also a wide selection of computer parts. As I posted on Twitter: "I felt like I died and landed in geek heaven." I picked up a ESD grounding wrist strap (something I've been needing) but should've picked up more... at least a multimeter. Oh well. It took us about 30 minutes to wait for check out, as the store was extremely busy and the line stretched all the way to the back of the store. I may go back, hopefully on a less busy day.

 

P.S. - Happy birthday to the Macintosh... 37 years.

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@Garrett We had a Micro Center in Northern California just before the real estate crash.  There's still one in Southern California.  They were different from Fry's.  Fry's had a bunch of, well, crap in addition to computer stuff.  They also had an electronics component section that, while overpriced, was occasionally useful.

 

Micro Center, on the other hand, is an absolutely fantastic store to build custom PCs.  I dearly miss them.  They have the absolute best deals around, especially their CPU + motherboard combo deals.   Usually got either a heavily discounted or sometimes even free motherboard with the purchase of a bundled CPU.  They were all in-store only, of course, to drive traffic there, but I didn't mind.  Beat the pants off anything you could buy online.

 

For the brief time they were in my area, I was able to match or beat custom PC sales people on Craigslist and elsewhere, and I didn't have to violate any TOS agreements with Microsoft, Intel, nVidia, and AMD to do it.  My brother and I had done pretty well building custom PCs for a few years.  It was fun, and a great side hustle to my regular job.

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