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Arduino SCSI device - Work in Progress


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20 hours ago, wymtb said:

I used a 34 to 50 pin McMaster adapter for which I was able to find gerber files.

 

Mind sharing those? I wanted to roll an adapter forever now but I don't seem to get around to do the little things.

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Posted (edited)

Oh well, that was an obvious source. Thanks  anyways ;)

 

Edit: before I order 5 PCBs, you don't happen to still have a spare one left, do you?

Edited by Bolle
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I have a 512k with a Dove MacSnap SCSI adapter. I would be willing to do some testing if you think it is possible to get it to work on that. This is basically equivalent to a Plus right? I'm not sure if there are subtle differences in how the MacSnap works vs the Plus. I would love to have something this cheap that could connect internally.

 

I saw a tool posted to test SCSI read/write speeds above, but does anyone know of a tool that could be used to test the read/write speeds of the Floppy Emu connected through the floppy port (pref. for system 6)? I wonder how much faster a scsi based hdd would be than the floppy emu for my setup.

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20 hours ago, Stillwell said:

I have a 512k with a Dove MacSnap SCSI adapter. I would be willing to do some testing if you think it is possible to get it to work on that

It is possible, but I have no way to validate or test. The Plus just has some quirks, but unsure if MacSnap has the same ones. I did get my RaSCSI setup to do some packet captures - hopefully start debugging it this coming week as time allows.

 

The tool will likely not work for HD20 drives - I'm not sure of one that does - It's SCSI Director Pro -https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/scsi-director-pro-40

 

On 3/8/2021 at 6:22 AM, wymtb said:

The Portable uses a 34 pin connector.

Thanks for the info!

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On 3/8/2021 at 11:03 PM, Stillwell said:

I saw a tool posted to test SCSI read/write speeds above, but does anyone know of a tool that could be used to test the read/write speeds of the Floppy Emu connected through the floppy port (pref. for system 6)? I wonder how much faster a scsi based hdd would be than the floppy emu for my setup.

 

I think Atto had a generic 'disk benchmark' tool, perhaps called "express tools" or something?  I remember running it against an AppleShare volume, so it would definitely work against an HD20.

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On 3/9/2021 at 8:07 AM, cheesestraws said:

 

I think Atto had a generic 'disk benchmark' tool, perhaps called "express tools" or something?  I remember running it against an AppleShare volume, so it would definitely work against an HD20.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. The only copy I was able to find was for OS 9, though.  Looking for it did, however, make me stumble upon DayStar PowerCentral that works on older systems and can benchmark disk drives.  The floppy emu read/write is 37.8/31.4 KB/s according to that software. I found something somewhere that said the SCSI on the Plus caps out at ~250 KB/s. So even though the SCSI device would be severely limited on a Plus, it would still be much faster.

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I've been chatting with @Flamelily to build and distribute from the UK. He's done this for other a few other projects and contacted me to see if it'd be alright for him to distribute. Glad to have an option "across the pond" for people to get from without unreasonable shipping costs.

 

https://bluescsi.flamelily.co.uk/

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On 3/10/2021 at 11:08 PM, erichelgeson said:

I've been chatting with @Flamelily to build and distribute from the UK. He's done this for other a few other projects and contacted me to see if it'd be alright for him to distribute. Glad to have an option "across the pond" for people to get from without unreasonable shipping costs.

 

https://bluescsi.flamelily.co.uk/


Thanks. I've ordered one kit to start with.

 

Suggestion for improvement: the site doesn't seem to allow a buyer to specify a quantity to order, requiring a separate checkout for each item purchased?

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Seems like there is a little bug with the pcb. Have today connected bluescsi to external scsi connector of my Mac Portable. Seems like no termination power is available at the external connector. I have powered bluescsi via usb. To get it working I needed a wire from 5v to term power jumper. As there is a diode between 5V pin at the bluepill and the term jumper power will never reach the jumper if external powered. This would also be the case if the molex connector would be used.

Maybe this is also the reason why bluescsi is not working with a Mac Plus.

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Good call @wymtb - that was intentional - but I now see how that will not provide the 5v pull up termination. I had some discussions early on and thought not feeding the 5v from a differnt line back into the scsi bus was the right thing to do, though some more recent discussions about the scsi spec may indicate this could be ok as there should be a diode on the host as well. I'll have to dig in a bit more.  Luckily it's just one bodge wire if that's the case :)

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22 hours ago, wymtb said:

Have today connected bluescsi to external scsi connector of my Mac Portable. Seems like no termination power is available at the external connector.

I actually had forgotten that the Portable doesn't have termination power. On the Macintosh Plus it's an easy fix, you can add a diode to an unpopulated spot on the logic board and it provides termination power, but I don't know if anything like that exists on the Portable.

 

21 hours ago, erichelgeson said:

I had some discussions early on and thought not feeding the 5v from a differnt line back into the scsi bus was the right thing to do

The only concern I see would be that power might go into other devices in the chain if they accept it, potentially drawing more power out than desired, but the draw from other devices might not be significant enough, I guess it really depends on what you hook up. SCSI spec says provided current on term power should range between 1.5A to 2.0A. Worst case you could put another diode between 26 and +5v.

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The portable is a bit of a mystery to me on whether it needs the bus terminated (my LC ii and iii didn't care, for example). My board design for the portable includes a jumper to turn termination on and off, and uses a diode between +5 and the 2.85 volt regulator to prevent backflow.

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On 3/11/2021 at 6:02 AM, joshc said:

 

 

I ordered one as well, not complaining, but post and packing is unfortunately half the price of the item alone, and adding taxes and exchange rate comes close to twice the unit price. 

 

Again, not complaining, it has been a lot of work to get it going, probably having the possibility to order several units in the same parcel and save some money in the process will be fine. 

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The point is that thanks :( to brexit, having a retailer in UK is now not so different from shipping directly from US to continental Europe. UK started to apply customs fees to electronic parts etc so it is maybe a bit quicker than getting items from US producers, but it isn't cheap anymore. 

 

I guess the market will be narrowing now for UK retailers and there is probably a need for EU-resident ones. Or maybe to reconsider brexit, but this would lead me OT.

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On 3/11/2021 at 5:02 AM, joshc said:


Thanks. I've ordered one kit to start with.

 

Suggestion for improvement: the site doesn't seem to allow a buyer to specify a quantity to order, requiring a separate checkout for each item purchased?

Thanks for the suggestion. The reason I have gone with only single purchase is I only have a small batch of boards. As you can imagine making a big PCB and component order would not be sensible until I know the interest. I will look to improve buying options in future

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On 3/12/2021 at 5:42 PM, bibilit said:

 

I ordered one as well, not complaining, but post and packing is unfortunately half the price of the item alone, and adding taxes and exchange rate comes close to twice the unit price. 

 

Again, not complaining, it has been a lot of work to get it going, probably having the possibility to order several units in the same parcel and save some money in the process will be fine. 

Thanks yes post cost is the problem. I'm looking to add more options to my site in future to offer better prices than eBay GSP, but as has been said Brexit has not helped the situation.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

just received my kit yesterday, no trouble getting everything soldered to it.

 

Just for my understanding, i managed to use a pre-made blank 1 Gb image using BalenaEtcher... so far, so good. But should i name the file using the HDxy_512.hda convention as well ?

 

And for a 2Gb sd card, what name is expected ??

 

Thanks.

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I got my kit, easy to solder together, and have had success using it with a IIcx so far.

 

I tried it out with some pre-made RaSCSI disk images first, just as a quick way of getting something that is supposed to work on it. One of my LC 475s didn't like this very much, for some reason, and gets stuck after boot.

 

However, the same image with the IIcx worked fine.

 

Next up, I tried the following...

 

Left the RaSCSI images on there, one of them is handy as it has Lido on it.

Create a new disk image using BasiliskII. Drag that onto the SD card. Name it HD20_512.hda, leaving the RaSCSI files as HD00_512.hda and HD10_512.hda.

Booted the machine from the RaSCSI image. Used Lido to format the 1.8GB image.

Back onto the modern Mac, mounted the image in BasiliskII and now I can proceed to add all the things I want to it

Clean install of 6.0.8 and some apps/utilities added, and back into the IIcx, after also removing the RaSCSI images, and yep we're booting straight into System 6 and it's happy days!

 

This might be a bit of a roundabout way of doing things, I wasn't sure if formatting in Basilisk would work, at least with Lido I can be sure I've got the right partition map/Apple driver in there (actually, not sure if that matters or not with the BlueSCSI actualy, I am more familiar with the set up required for the SCSI2SD...).

 

@bibilit I named all my files HDxx_512.hda regardless of the size and it seems to work (tested up to an image 1.8GB in size).

 

 

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@bibilit - yes the naming convention is required - there are details in the README - it tells the bluescsi what scsi id/lun/byte size to use. you can add your own text after as well, eg `HD00_512-games.hda` - no requirements on the name of the sd card.

 

@joshc right you do need the partition/driver/etc setup - I made a script to do it and I plan to upload some pre formatted blanks to the repo soon (in discord if you want them now) https://gist.github.com/erichelgeson/88e4480e5cff3c92e75e33ab1bfb4859

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... well, not working for me.

 

Have been trying but can't make it work.  (using a Color Classic with Lido )

 

tried several cards, all formatted to ExFat, used several pre-built images, created my own using the dd command, named the image as required (HD10_512.hda or HD20...)

 

PC13 is flashing on and off, so not founding images (Sd card holder is properly in place) and i can't see the log file either.

 

Missing something ??

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19 hours ago, bibilit said:

PC13 is flashing on and off, so not founding images (Sd card holder is properly in place) and i can't see the log file either.

The software can't see the sd card if PC13 is flashing (or no image is found, but then there would be a log file). Verify points from the sd card to the bluepill, make sure the sd holder is grounded.  ExFat or Fat32 will both work. Touch up the solder points just to make sure they're making good connection. If you used flux make sure there's none in the sd slot mucking stuff up. Make sure the SD card is seated all the way (sometimes it can feel like it is but it's just out a bit.) Just a smattering of things to try from touching up some assemblies.

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ExFat did not work for me, neither did the factory FAT32 formatting the SD card I used came with.

After reformating the card everything was fine. I do need external power though on nearly all machines I tried so far - which is not a big deal as I made a few boards with a Molex connector, so things will plug right in.

The SCSI2SD will work just fine when powered from the term power supply on all those machines, so there definitely are a few differences in power requirements here.

 

What I noticed is that despite the Quantum drive identification thingy it won’t show up in Apple Drive Setup and I needed Lido to format the image. Again not a real problem, but I thought that’s what the drive ID is there for.

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22 hours ago, Bolle said:

After reformating the card everything was fine.

SD cards are strange, i've seen that happen as well.

 

Re power- what machine did you use? I've actually never had to use external power (only tested it)

 

I'll take a look at the apple drive setup - i swear i had done so before. You can change the drive vendor, etc via config file. I almost always use lido or pre-format on a modern machine due to how long apple drive setup takes.

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On 3/25/2021 at 3:17 AM, Bolle said:

After reformating the card everything was fine

 

So far only used ExFat, so gone try Fat32 instead

 

On 3/25/2021 at 3:17 AM, Bolle said:

I do need external power though on nearly all machines I tried so far

Ok, but the power LED is steady in my own.

 

On 3/25/2021 at 3:04 AM, erichelgeson said:

Verify points from the sd card to the bluepill, make sure the sd holder is grounded

Done already, but can have another try, if possible can you supply some sort of schematics from the sd card to the bluepill ? just to be sure everything is connected properly.

Edited by bibilit
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