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PowerBook 150 - screens all destroyed?!


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On 9/25/2018 at 11:10 PM, goncalo said:

 

I'm so relieved having discovered my damaged LCDs can be fixed!

 

I've noticed several sellers of polarizer film mention degree angles - does anyone know the angle for the MB 1xxs?

 

Has anyone bought and applied this polarizer film?

 

SHARP LM 64P58 assembly removed from the backlight unit:

201809241320_0002_Edit.thumb.jpg.c47d91ef40e9be87b43a9d86b95be0f3.jpg

 

The polarizer film peeled off:

IMG_20180925_090857.thumb.jpg.cb9542ac280e2923cb490f825e022617.jpg

 

LCD with the adhesive still on:

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IMG_20180925_090933.thumb.jpg.64216ace2b7fa3e69b35bb80fef2e1fb.jpg

 

Adhesive peeled off and flat blade:

IMG_20180925_102656.thumb.jpg.8f56d9da630f3736dceac213e6d277eb.jpg

 

Finished LCD unit:

IMG_20180925_102720.thumb.jpg.9b808515f6632270bd94deba6fc0dac4.jpg

 

IMG_20180925_102737.thumb.jpg.6d105e88b8b9e8f3e61409115dcb297f.jpg

Did you end up finding replacement polariser?

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Anyone interested in a polarizing polymer that can be applied directly to the surface rather than as a sheet?

 

I talked to an old professor of mine who is an optical chemist, and he says he knows of a material that acts as an optical polarizer, it is applied to surface, and it polymerizes into a solid film on the substrate (surface) it is applied to.

 

I thought this sounded like something that would be an awesome and inexpensive (he said making up a batch is easy and inexpensive) way to replace the polarizing materials that seem to be failing on us.

 

A bonus would be that since it is applied to the surface of something, there is no air gap, so there is no risk of moisture intrusion in the future, and the polarizer is naturally hydrophobic, so any moisture that tried to get in would be repelled.

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I think the simple application of the polymer would result in a gloss style screen, not the matte style that we're used to on those old models. Personally I prefer matte screens for the glare reduction and the softening of the pixels (which are huge and blocky on those old displays). I wouldn't mind trying it on one, though, just to see how it would look. The question would become: how is the polymer applied? Is it self-leveling or does it require an applicator? Are there finishing actions required or is it good to go as soon as it's dried?

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On 1/23/2019 at 6:26 PM, Franklinstein said:

I think the simple application of the polymer would result in a gloss style screen, not the matte style that we're used to on those old models. Personally I prefer matte screens for the glare reduction and the softening of the pixels (which are huge and blocky on those old displays). I wouldn't mind trying it on one, though, just to see how it would look. The question would become: how is the polymer applied? Is it self-leveling or does it require an applicator? Are there finishing actions required or is it good to go as soon as it's dried?

It's self-leveling, and as soon as its dried, you are all set.

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  • 3 months later...
On 1/26/2018 at 3:36 PM, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

From the LCD replacement hunt thread:

 

I'm wondering if plasticizer leaching within the close confines of a closed PowerBook over many years may be the culprit? If they're worried about the effects of leaching on drugs and foods for human consumption stored in containers within their expiration dates, multiple years of it concerns me. Dunno, but it seems to me it wouldn't take much to eat away at thin film plastics and adhesives? The variety of storage situations across environments and continents has made this my primary suspect.

 

As a chemist, hat do you make of that notion, techgeek?

The liquid forming on the screen I have found and the smell is undeniably acetone. Im

assuming the glue used had an acetone base. Stupidity. 

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Acetone is a fabulous industrial solvent base for scads of applications. It should be easy enough to use it to remove residue without damage. water leaching under thin films on an LCD that was badly obsolete within five years of manufacture after 20 to 30 years never hit the design considerations.

 

LCD's don't give off UV, so the film must protect its electronics from the effects of UV. Peel the damn film, scrape up the adhesive, clean off the residue and use it all you want indoors only and keep the lid closed in storage. No problem so far, no?

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27 minutes ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

Peel the damn film, scrape up the adhesive, clean off the residue and use it all you want indoors only and keep the lid closed in storage.

That is definitely an option, or you can take it a step further and install new film. Think of it as a big screen protector, or window tint :) 

 

There’s no reason to panic over this so much. It’s really not *that* big of a deal. It’s just some crusty polarizing film that can be replaced. It’s not like some proprietary IC that’s failing at an epidemic level.

Edited by PB145B
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Single edge razor blades are preferable to utility blades for every situation that comes to mind. If you have large hands there are some cute little plastic holders available now. I prefer glossy screens now that I've gotten used to them and wonder how an ancient cs panel might look with one today? Definitely interested in the self leveling liquid process.

 

@Paralel was looking into the properties of acetone in this instance and wondered about its miscibility in another favorite, loosely related topic. Does ABS cement use a far larger part of methyl ethyl ketone which is significantly soluble in water, but immiscible as the active agent along with a far lesser part of Acetone for its misciblility in formulating the proper ABS/MEK/Acetone solution?

 

edit: wondering there about reactive and storage properties in both cases.

 

On topic here in terms of "storage" of residue in the bonding agent between film and glass. Is it a case of water infiltration causing acetone residue in the adhesive to bubble up and up out?

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini
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  • 2 months later...
On 1/23/2019 at 4:43 PM, Paralel said:

Anyone interested in a polarizing polymer that can be applied directly to the surface rather than as a sheet

 

How would that work, how would you control the polarization angle? It must be 90° from the rear film

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I've peeled off the film and removed the residue. Installing a new film is probably a winter project. I've got 2 of them and both have this issue.

 

Another issue I have with the powerbooks 150 is that none of them want to cold start from it's internal battery.

Pram is already replaced, batteries are recelled but the powerbook won't start up with the power button unless the power adapter in plugged in. Once it's powered on, I can remove the power adapter again and it keeps going.

It keeps his date/time settings so this at least proves the Pram battery works.

 

I'm wondering if this is also a common problem with the PB150. None of my other powerbooks have this issue.

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I also have issues getting it to start up, but I don't have a good battery, so it has issues booting with AC as well. There is a DC DC board inside with two electrolytic through hole capacitors that just might be at fault - when I have time I'll replace them and report back. @Johnnya101 has a recapped DC-DC board, perhaps he can report as to whether or not that affected booting.

 

I replaced his board caps, but not mine :) what can I say, it's hard to justify doing it for myself.

Edited by Jinnai
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  • 2 months later...

This seems to happen a lot in Japan. They call this phenomenon of polarizers splitting from the screen the "vinegar syndrome," because of the smell it gives off:

 

 

It seems like high storage temperatures and humidity make it happen faster, and it's proposed that storing the machines with the screens open rather than closed might slow down the process.

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Storage affects a lot of things. I see people having issues with cracking plastic, screens separating, all kinds of stuff. My whole collection has been stored in temperature and humidity controlled conditions for the past 15-20 years (depending on when I got the machine) and I have none of these issues at all.

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Thanks for posting it, fabulous video. While I was listening, I opened the PowerBooks stored on my bookshelf partway and flip-fopped them in pairs for better air circulation. None on that shelf were affected, but it's great to know that outgassing of the Vinegar Syndrome process makes it a contagious disease! 8-o  Gotta locate diseased 'Books for quarantine. 

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19 hours ago, ravuya said:

This seems to happen a lot in Japan. They call this phenomenon of polarizers splitting from the screen the "vinegar syndrome," because of the smell it gives off:

 

It seems like high storage temperatures and humidity make it happen faster, and it's proposed that storing the machines with the screens open rather than closed might slow down the process.

Hi, thanks for this video link, very informative.

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