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SE30_Neal

Formatting an external HHD, utilities software

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Hi guys,

following on from my scsi chain external HHD issue (the system attempted to load from the external drive over ruling my internal HHD be it unsuccessfully). Trash recommended SCSI probe utility software thinking it maybe simply a SCSI channel conflict, as it turns out the utility software picks up the external AVID HHD just fine under any channel i set it yet still nothing. I thought maybe first Aid may repair the drive but it didn’t show up within that software only the internal HHD and floppy.

1.) i don’t know if the drive is formatted for mac or if it works for that matter any ideas on how to test it? 
2.) way to format it?

note; It’s a rather old and massively heavy full height HHD which also made a funky sound whilst spoiling up but settled quickly .

 

any ideas of a way forward would be much appreciated.

 

Neal

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Try Patched Apple HD SC Setup. Sometimes it can force the drive to mount if it is at all able to. If not, there are other options within, such as repairing the actual drivers.

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If you want to format the drive you can use Lido. Most of my HDDs were formated with Lido sucsessfully.

Is the last SCSI-device terminated?

Internal drive should have SCSI ID=0. The external should have a higher value (like 1). As  I remember right, only the Mac Plus booted from the device with the highest ID.

Edited by dochilli

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Hi guys,

thank you both i’ll try those tonight. Yes its terminated with a 50pin terminator plug.

 

does it matter if you plug the scsi into the top or bottom connector on the back of the HHD (both are unlabelled) and I’ve plugged computer into the top scsi port and terminated at the bottom?

 

thanks 

 

Neal

Edited by SE30_Neal

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22 minutes ago, LaPorta said:

Try Patched Apple HD SC Setup. Sometimes it can force the drive to mount if it is at all able to. If not, there are other options within, such as repairing the actual drivers.

Bit of background and picture.

I’m not sure of the age of the drive (brought it off eBay). When i cleaned out the dust i i was surprised it was a full size HHD i believe 5.25 inch 2.4gb but has limited information on it anywhere. It weighs a ton though and takes several seconds to spoil up (sounds some what like a jet engine).

 

about 3-4 seconds into the 7-8 seconds it takes to get up to speed i get that scrubbing (funky noise) only briefly for 1/2 a second almost like its out of balance or warn barrings until its fully up to speed so it may indeed require repair but it managed 15 minutes powered on seemingly ok.

 

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2 hours ago, dochilli said:

If you want to format the drive you can use Lido. Most of my HDDs were formated with Lido sucsessfully.

Is the last SCSI-device terminated?

Internal drive should have SCSI ID=0. The external should have a higher value (like 1). As  I remember right, only the Mac Plus booted from the device with the highest ID.

Hi Dochilli,

it definitely tries to boot from the external first even with the scsi set higher than the internal id which is set at 0.  I’m more used to ide drives so opened them up thinking a misplaced jumper pin was the cause yet scsi doesn’t have those as i found out after taking my se/30 drive out and the avid HHD apart to check. I’ll definitely try lido when i get home from work :) it may just need the correct format for it to work as expected. Mind you isnt this part of the fun of using the old gear as we’re so used to plug and play usb these days this old kit makes you work for it lol

 

neal 

Edited by SE30_Neal

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The machine starts searching for drives at address 0 and works up, so it will boot from the internal no matter what unless the drive is not system folder-equipped or you have set it to boot from the external via software.

 

As for the drive, I assumed you were trying to rescue data. If you are not, just try and obliterate the thing with lido or the patched setup application. If there is a hardware issue it won’t work, and the. You can just toss the drive.

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1 hour ago, LaPorta said:

The machine starts searching for drives at address 0 and works up, so it will boot from the internal no matter what unless the drive is not system folder-equipped or you have set it to boot from the external via software.

 

As for the drive, I assumed you were trying to rescue data. If you are not, just try and obliterate the thing with lido or the patched setup application. If there is a hardware issue it won’t work, and the. You can just toss the drive.

Hi LaPorto,

No not really i doubt there’s any data on it i  just wanted some extra storage in a vintage style (its an exact fit under the compact Mac) and as i have used a fair amount of the 1gb Internal drive within my SE/30, having the extra 2.4gb for software and games is what i was after. I saw this on ebay advertised as a vintage macintosh SCSI HHD so I wrongly presumed it would just work. Likely hood is it either doesn’t work or lacks a file system so yes i’ll attempt just to obliterate it as i have little to loose, it was only about $40 6-7 months ago when i came across it. Thanks for your help its much appreciated :) 

Neal

Edited by SE30_Neal

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7 hours ago, LaPorta said:

The machine starts searching for drives at address 0 and works up, so it will boot from the internal no matter what unless the drive is not system folder-equipped or you have set it to boot from the external via software.

When you say "via software," you're probably referring to the Mac SE and newer machines which use the Startup CDEV to set the boot device, and retain this setting in PRAM.

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4 hours ago, LaPorta said:

Best of luck! Of the drive doesn’t work, you could always pop a SCSI2SD in there and use that.

You’re right but no i want classy hardware 

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5 hours ago, LaPorta said:

Best of luck! Of the drive doesn’t work, you could always pop a SCSI2SD in there and use that.

No. I want sd options yes but really it’s classic

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On 1/14/2020 at 5:47 PM, LaPorta said:

Best of luck! Of the drive doesn’t work, you could always pop a SCSI2SD in there and use that.

I say i’d like the classic hardware but reality is SCSI2SD is probably much more stable.

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23 hours ago, SE30_Neal said:
On 1/14/2020 at 5:47 PM, LaPorta said:

Best of luck! Of the drive doesn’t work, you could always pop a SCSI2SD in there and use that.

Didnt work unfortunately i get an arbitratry failure which then crashes the os is sats check connection and terminators. I think its worth pulling everything out and trying i different cable and using my zip drive as the terminator. Weekend job as it means ripping all the wires out. To be honest i think the drive is toast but I’ll give it one final go. :) 

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If the drive is dead, I would open it and look if the reading arm is stuck. Sometimes a little push with your finger moves the arm. I could get some drives back to life by opening the drive. Old drives have sometimes some rubber bumpers that have become soft and sticky with the years.

Edited by dochilli

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On 1/17/2020 at 7:42 AM, dochilli said:

If the drive is dead, I would open it and look if the reading arm is stuck. Sometimes a little push with your finger moves the arm. I could get some drives back to life by opening the drive. Old drives have sometimes some rubber bumpers that have become soft and sticky with the years.

Hi Dochilli,

i could give it a try i have nothing to loose otherwise it’s bin fodder. It does start up and run, do i run whilst open or just open it move the read head and put it back together to test?

 

neal

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I highly recommend you don't open it up. It spins up, you've already said, and a noise shortly after spinning up is quite normal for older drives like these. Opening it up may permanently ruin it because you'll be introducing dust.

 

Just curious - what does "HHD" stand for?

 

As you've said, SCSI Probe sees the drive, but you can't mount it. Ok. So now download a patched copy of Apple HD SC or Apple Drive Setup, then use that to partition the drive.

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Hi John,

tried lido and Apple HD SC and just get an error 5 after 3 sets of 6 flashes on the HDD’s LED indicator followed by the drive spooling itself down so it’s definitely not happy.

 

i’m kind of out of options with this one, there’s a few videos online about reviving these old full hight HDDs so I’ll attempt to get it out of the outer case to see if i can see the stepper motor and oil that but the HDD is in a wapping cast steel housing bolted on risers in a 2mm thick welded steel housing) with no space to get it out without a complete strip down AND removal of power supply and cabling, if not its opening it up to see if old rubber is the issue. 
i do understand if i get to this point it’ll probably be ruined.

 

ah HDD rather than HHD lol hard drive device miss typed

 

neal

 

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Just now, johnklos said:

Ah. I see. That sounds like it's not happy. Good luck!

Cheers John. I was always told never to open hdds so yes it’ll be a last resort. Maybe i can keep the outer housing and power supply and change out the hdd, will see i’ll give it one more try before accepting defeat

 

neal

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I had 3 HDD that did not work because of a stuck reading arm and I had no fear to open them. All three worked after opening the drives and I could save the files on the HDD. Could be the last possible way to get the drive running. Otherwise it may be ruined.

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