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OleLila

Bernoulli Drive fixes, ?any experiences anyone

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I had a great experince  with a SCSI Sony magneto optical drive and decided to keep checking out older scsi removable media devices. Found a Jaz drive and it is, thus far, infinitely better than the zip. I found a couple of bernoulli 150 MB external SCSI drives and they both turn on, the scsi software correctly identifies them, but does not acknowledge media as being present. One of them stated to format, but then stopped working. They both seem to be broken in the same way, they turn on, scsi probe knows they are Bernoulli and sees them, but when I put the media in, they spin then there is a fairly solid surge which fits with a magnetically driven read her, but I don't think it ever engages, its like they get stuck or hit something. You can take them apart and remove a circuitboard, but can really not get to the magnets or head/mechansm without some pretty aggressive disassembly...like maybe heating up some magnetic shielding and peeling it off. Maybe I'll ave to sacrifice one of them.

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34 minutes ago, Unknown_K said:

You might need a 3rd party utility to format them.

Will tools like Lido or Anubis properly handle Bernoulli media? Just wondering what utilities would be best suited. As the soon-to-be-owner of a Bernoulli box, I'm also interested here.

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I think they would. To be honest I have a couple 90MB? external Bernoulli drives with some media but have not used them yet. I try and snag any external SCSI drive types I can for the collection.

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I'm having vague recollections about this… Might be worthy of a series of tests. Back in '00 or so I got a syquest and a bernoulli drive and I recall one worked fine with whatever SCSI utility I had, but not the other.

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I just looked at one of my external Bernoulli drives and it is a Iomega 150 Multidisk model. The cool think about it is it has centronics connector on the back and has a switch that you set to SCSI (has a SCSI ID selector ) and the optional IOMEGA Parallel Port so you can connect it to a standard PC (probably much slower).

 

 

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The one that started to format was recognized by system 9.1 with "This disk in unrecognizable, do you want to format?", then stopped during the process. I've tried Lido, PLI formatter, SCSI director, Bluedisk manager and Silver lining. The switch is set to SCSI.

Edited by OleLila

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Iomega had its own Bernoulli disk formatting utility. I've tried it on a few of my own systems with a 230-meg drive and disks, some of the disks were still sealed even, and haven't gotten very far, myself.

 

I've gotten my unit to do self tests with the bernoulli management/formatting tool, I forget if that was on my 840 or my PB1400, but either the drive or the cartridges came back bad, but: inconsistently.

 

I need to pull all that stuff out again and take a look. More recently, I tried again on my PM6200 but still couldn't get it working there, either. I'm kind of hoping it's just that the driver was never very PPC compatible and it'll all come right up on my 840, but we'll see.

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28 minutes ago, Cory5412 said:

Iomega had its own Bernoulli disk formatting utility. I've tried it…

Is that utility up on vTools?

I noticed this, but it might be nothing more than hearsay: this MacintoshGarden uploader's comment that the splash screen hints at a compatibility with the (later) Bernoulli boxes is intriguing. Talking specifically about the first download, the non-specific "Tools™" image. I'm going to test a number of drivers/utilities and see once mine get here. It's a post-powerPC, so I'd assume it's a fat binary ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Edited by jessenator

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I feel called out in the most hilarious way. You're right. I need to check.

 

I got it off of another site, MacGUI Archive IIRC. If it's on vtools, it might be in my private folder, so I'll put it in public.

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I've tried Lido and Blue disk manager on a plus  and G3...same results, finds the drive, but does not acknowledge the presence of a disk (no media inserted). 

He stops when he got down to the part that exposes the heads....I thought if you could clean the heads after 35 years it would be a good starting point but I don't see any way to get to them without removing that shielding, unless you want to find and spend excessive amounts on a cleaning cartridge. I guess I might take it apart again and clean any area he points to and says "optical sensor". The way it feels, there are bearings that move the head assembly, maybe these are bad, but again, a big disassembly to expose. I imagine I'm bound to sacrifice one of them to see the coils and head assembly.

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For reference, here is the driver and utility I used: https://www.macgui.com/downloads/?file_id=23588 

 

Mine can recognize the media, but fails to actually format it. I've had this happen with pre-used media as well as still sealed media.

 

My understanding is that you really aren't supposed to partition and low level format the media yourself. That's a factory kind of thing, and so if I'm remembering right, there's scenarios where if a piece of media has been wiped using something like a tape degausser, a bernoulli cartridge is just going to be totally dead from that.

 

Not 100% on that because I haven't really perused a real bernoulli manual, but, from my perspective since I'd only tried two disks that was something to consider as an option.

 

Given the mode of operation for bernoulli drives, they allegedly shouldn't need cleaning, but that doesn't mean there's not something else in there.

 

I'll see if I can get my source on some of this stuff in here to either give me ideas or join up here and post some thoughts. I believe he has/had a bernoulli, but I don't know if he used it on a Mac.

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Did a quick setup test with my init and either the IIsi system could not see it or the system did not boot (could not find my system HD).

 

Will mess around with it more this weekend probably.

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I tried (manual installation) of v4.x iomega driver from Macintosh Garden) and it's X'd out on startup and I get a warning dialog at Finder launch saying it couldn't find an Iomega Drive. The installer won't run, rightly, because there's no Zip drive, but I thought that even with a manual driver install something would work. No dice.

 

I can't download the Bernoulli driver from VintageApple.org, as it's linking to iomega's old FTP site*. 

 

I did, however, successfully get it to work with the link Cory provided above. Works with my PowerWave running System 7.6.1 just fine, even the "Workshop" utility for formatting and scanning disks.

 

I did some searching on the wayback machine and there were other, newer versions of drivers, specifically for the Bernoulli, up to v. 5.0.x, but unfortunately I don't know how/don't think there's provision for wayback to access FTP. *There were several other mirrors as well, but none of them worked, sadly. 

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23 hours ago, jessenator said:

I can't download the Bernoulli driver from VintageApple.org, as it's linking to iomega's old FTP site*

This is a long shot, and you may have already tried, but you can search the Wayback Machine for old FTP sites too.

 

There's several archives of both Apple's and Microsoft's FTP sites, for example. Not sure if there's more.

 

c

Edited by CC_333

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If only these mirrors had been imaged :/ https://web.archive.org/web/19970711132306/http://www.iomega.com/support/software/ftpmac501.html

that v.5.0.1 one could speculate is the last version of the software that supported the Bernoulli

Interestingly, the previous image of that page shows v.4.3 for Zip, but the Bernoulli driver is still v.3.53, still accessible from MacGUI, so there never was a v.4.3 for Bernoulli it would seem.

 

38 minutes ago, CC_333 said:

This is a long shot, and you may have already tried, but you can search the Wayback Machine for old FTP sites too.

sigh, dangit, another dead end. https://web.archive.org/web/19981212014111/ftp://ftp.iomega.com/

 

English 404s and captures past that date 401 error. I tried a couple logical directories but no luck.

 

Might be that someone, somewhere out there has this "Mac501.hqx" archive...

Edited by jessenator

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Back to the cleaning carts. There are a couple on eBay at the moment and both share the same design. However, I found another photographic example of a cartridge on twitter.

 

aPrDlJj.jpg

0sc4RCd.jpg

UbqgENr.jpg

I wonder if this person is a member... Maybe could create a 3d printed replacement.

 

Here's the "older?" Cart: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F254303545135

 

The other is 0 bids w/ 3 days left, starting at ~$30

Edited by jessenator

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Posting for posterity… https://web.archive.org/web/20011204173901/http://63.108.224.177/comet/drivers/Mac501-1.HQX

 

Sometime in 1999(?), Iomega sold/gave servicing rights/privileges to Comet Enterprises it seems. They had a repository of drivers, and thankfully two of the imaged pages had what appears to be a viable HQX file for download.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dyqnm1b6ihbrv0z/Mac501-1.HQX?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7t1fs6mwzrdppfm/Mac501-1-comet.HQX?dl=0

 

one mirror and Comet's own. Both 11kB in size, whereas v3.5.3 is 133kB so there could be some corruption/complete data. Also, the v3.5.3 downloaded while the v5.0.1 opened itself as a hypertext document initially in a modern browser.

 

I can't test it at the moment, but maybe one of these will work?

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Those pictures aren't that bad. This is for the earlier, much much larger, primarily PC focused bernoulli cartridge system, not for the 5.25-inch Bernoulli mechanisms Macs can use.

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I'm almost in possession of a Bernoulli Box II cleaning cart/disk, from which I will make a 3D model that can (hopefully) be printed. Thr thing is meant to come apart to change the cleaning element on the wiper arm, so it hopefully isn't too complex to print.

 

Yes, Cory is correct, that listing is an old Bernoulli Box I cleaning disk. Different form factor completely from the more common garden varietals. I dont think the originals went up to or past 100 MB, so you've more than likely got the II drives.

 

Here are two examples of II drives. Some had a case wide enough for two, the "Transportable" version is the one drive only (plus PSU space)

 

J4hzkaZ.jpg

fi7hIf1.jpg

 

The original, older form factor were ENORMOUS, comparatively.

g9cA6NQ.jpg

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