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blusnowkitty

ATX to Mac IIcx/IIci/IIsi/IIvx/IIvi, Quadra 650/700/800, Performa 600, PM 7100 Adapter

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Gotta say I LOVE your work here. :approve: I jumped into the thread late, I'd love to snag a couple of your boards too.

On 11/18/2019 at 12:28 PM, blusnowkitty said:

Hey all, just wanted to gauge community interest to see if anyone would be interested in an ATX to Mac 10-pin adapter board. I've got a IIsi with a dead power supply (surface mount caps got REALLY bad inside)  .  .  .

 

Right now I've got a batch of prototype boards being made to test out in my IIsi. Once we get that up and running, I'll start offering boards for sale if anyone's interested. Probably going to be sold as PCB only, kit, and fully assembled options.

 

For the IIsi specifically, I've had the bare bones of a power adapter board and setup worked out that makes use of the stock ass end components of the IIsi PSU and possibly some bits from its PCB? Dunno, I've been kicking it around for the longest time, I think I have better drawings somewhere in the files if you're interested?

 

iisiatxsketch1.jpg

Drawing shows backplate laid flat. It plugs onto headers on adapter as in stock PSU and retains fuse protection for the AC bits in and monitor passthru connector on the new PCB which resides in the white section underneath connectors and behind the  FlexATX bits in the mockup below:

 

iisiatxhack001.jpg

 

FlexATX is inverted and I've reversed the orientation/airflow of the FlexATX PSU to vent it and the rest of the IIsi case's exit air out a 120mm fan equipped ducted vent/hole routed out from under under the FDD and fitted into that cavernous empty cubic. Airflow from the stock fan is reversed and vane directed at the Radius Rocket and Savvio server drive of the SuperIIsi™ with all heated air from the inside case blown out the through that 120mm hole in the bottom, reminiscent of the Q605/LC cooling setup.
 

Airflow cooling  of the IIsi PSU is very different and yet the same as the Q605/LC, so you shouldn't need need to do anything even close to that crazy. In the stock PSU, air is drawn in from the top vents and moseys out the perforations on both sides of the can in a far more direct manner than the pizza boxen. The exhaust fan at the back does all the work. Depending upon the config of the components inside your PSU of choice a few options are open, so to speak.

 

Ducting the exhaust air from FlexATX might be done via the air inlet atop the IIsi's stock PSU. Flip the PSU in the mockup above so the PCB is on the bottom and the white area defines empty cubic to be used as a ducted airway vent. There might be so little heat generated at IIsi output to simply blow it out the front to head on out the back as is the heat from the stock PSU.

 

Airflow for FlexATX is VERY dependent on a front to back (or back to front) direction for properly cooling the components inside and across the heatsinks of the worst offenders. Worst case scenario has a FlexATX can overlapping the front third of the IIsi can's slots on top. That's no biggie as the remaining area probably exceeds that of the slots on the passive end of the FlexATX can.

 

Whatever, just thought I'd add some ancient IIsi info to go with the IIcx form factor stuff.

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I have put a number of the modular seasonic into various machines (se/30, IIci, IIsi) and plan to do a Mac II at some point.  I find the hardest part is figuring out how to mount the PSU into the doner case. I have all of the molex connectors and the pin removal tool that makes this fairly straight.  For soft power, I just build little inverter boards that are added inline with the PSU cable.  See this thread for more information:

 

 

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I'm really liking what I see in that SeaSonic PSU! What are the dimensions of the PCB?

 

Seasonic-PSU-02.thumb.jpg.a2bafa9932423234946eab4cb6c59f4f.jpg

 

It looks much shorter and easier to use than the one I have in hand. I'd still mount it in the IIsi can backwards from the way you have it set up. Possibly doing it upside down from the case bottom with standoffs or suspend it from the lid, depending on component heights at front and back. Love the cabling connector, so easy! That would be at the rear hooked via adapter board to the stock IIsi connector assembly.

 

Fan and plug would be removed at the front end with something like a 50mm x 50mm x 10mm fan, though it wouldn't quite cover the entire grating. I'd also have to put a pair of vents in either top or bottom of the IIsi can with a hole saw to match SeaSonic airflow requirements as below.

 

17-151-211-Z03.jpg

 

 

 

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That SEASONIC is small enough to fit even inside the PSU metal case used in an SE or SE/30, as shown in my video here:

 

 

But bear in mind the SEASONIC has a fan.  The stock SONY and ASTEC PSUs had no fan, so when the SEASONIC fan kicks in, you will hear it, especially if you have a SCSI2SD instead of a spinning platter HDD, and even more so if you have replaced the SE/30 fan for a quieter one.  It's not loud by any means, but it may be a new sound that annoys some people.

 

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Getting back on-topic here, good news - the Rev1 boards arrived today! Unfortunately we already have a Rev2 in the works to address some problems we noticed in the Rev1 design (after I had already ordered those, naturally). But anyway, after a couple bodge wires they do work! We'll get the Rev2 boards finalized and ordered soon enough; I'm sending a couple of the Rev1 boards over to @Compgeke for testing and then we'll go from there!

IMG_3983.JPG

IMG_3985.JPG

IMG_3984.JPG

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Bugs in order of importance: 

1.) The 7404 was connected to 5V and not 5VSB. Does not work as-is, needed a rework wire to connect it to 5VSB.

2.) The 10 pin connector is on the wrong side to correctly fit into a IIsi when using a soldered-to-board connector, instead you'd have to use something like the original wiring from the factory PSU. Not ideal.

3.) Fan connector is the wrong item, it's a size too big. 

 

Here's the 2nd Revision. Main concern here is the standby LED resistor is very close to the 5VSB LED, however moving it over isn't ideal since there's a bottom trace right below it. It'll still do.

NotFuckedTop.thumb.png.4b85c7d12939d97c624888cd6a2d84c1.png

 

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Fabulous work! Bodge wires are definitely a requirement. If you get it right the first time it's not a prototype, it's a fluke.

 

2 hours ago, blusnowkitty said:

Getting back on-topic here, good news - the Rev1 boards arrived today!

Sorry if I got too far off topic with the PSU info and suggestions for IIcx and IIsi form factors? You mentioned the IIsi in the IP, so I jumped in with thatinfo.

 

What are the measurements of your board?

 

 

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How would you envision this being used?  Specifically where and how would the board and an ATX PSU be mounted, say in a IIci? The board and attendant wires seems too bulky to be practical to me other than for bench testing but I might be missing something. 

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14 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

Sorry if I got too far off topic with the PSU info and suggestions for IIcx and IIsi form factors? You mentioned the IIsi in the IP, so I jumped in with thatinfo.

 

You're fine, I meant more for how this thread became a Mac SE/30 PSU thread for a moment.

 

13 hours ago, superjer2000 said:

How would you envision this being used?  Specifically where and how would the board and an ATX PSU be mounted, say in a IIci? The board and attendant wires seems too bulky to be practical to me other than for bench testing but I might be missing something. 

What you see in the pictures is just me making do with scavenged parts. The final board will have a Mac II plug mounted directly to the board. We were considering using a picoPSU off this board so we could ATX reliability in a tiny package.

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Had a thought, might a  female  male connector be soldered to the underside of your board in a Rev.3 variant? It would plug directly onto the connector on the SeaSonic FlexATX PSU that's so popular. Eliminating the cable interface mess between your board and a PSU Wire harness would simplify things greatly. Mac power Connector could be hardwired or the connector flipped topside in that configuration. You'd probably want to provide some version of a 12V/5V Molex harness for powering internal peripherals exceeding the Logic Board's power budget. That could be done with connector or hardwired.

 

If you added thruholes for the IIsi PSU connector, the stock part would be retained, A/C connector on the input/fan end would be removed and hardwired to the adapter board making for a very slick adaptation for your IIsi project. In the IIsi, heat from the PSU exits through the can's perforations to be drawn out the main exhaust fan. So the stock, temperature controlled SeaSonic fan would stay in place and the vacated opening for the A/C connector would be plugged/taped over to preserve airflow design.

 

 

IMG_3984.JPG

 

IMG_3985.JPG

 

With any luck in terms of component sizes we'd be using the stock IIsi can with a little sheet metal modification.

 

image.png

 

I've been playing with my PSU in the IIsi can and realized why I'd set it up for inverted installation on the lid. that way the excised power connector clears alignment column and front clip to avoid modification of anything but the PSU can itself. Installing the PCB close to the top at the back end, angled close to the close to the bottom at the front end provide clearances for all manner of things that will require an AI session to explain.

 

 

edit: glad to hear my comments about IIcx and IIsi form factors haven't been too much of an annoyance. Also got the mating connection wrong at the top.

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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2 hours ago, blusnowkitty said:

You're fine, I meant more for how this thread became a Mac SE/30 PSU thread for a moment.

You mean, "why did two people dare to briefly mention the SE/30 in this thread"?  :-)  The answer to that is: "because people were talking about the Physical Size of the SEASONIC."  Superjer2000, who was one of the people who inspired me to do my own SE/30 PSU mode with the SEASONIC, merely mentioned that he used it in his other mods which included the SE/30, and I followed up with a comment to show just how small it is, which is seen in my video.  In other words, we established how small the SEASONIC is -- the size of which is relevant to modding any other PSU.  Now that has been established, there need be no further discussion on compact Macs, seeing this thread is indeed about the "Mac IIcx/IIci/IIsi/IIvx/IIvi, Quadra 650/700/800, Performa 600, PM 7100" exclusively.

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Good news: I've got some of the boards heading my way. I've got a PCB mount connector rather than lopping the 10 pin off the factory PSU. I'll still be using scavenged parts but it'll be a nicer representation of the original idea.

 

On 11/24/2019 at 8:28 AM, olePigeon said:

Would it be possible to add a glowing eyed Jolly Roger logo to the PCB like on the original DougG3 Red ROM? :)

 

Both yes and no. The boards themselves are quite small and space constraints difficult. From a track layout view, there's not much wiggle room left on either side of the board.  There's already a pair of LEDs however there's not really any silkscreen room to draw anything around them. Ultimately though I'd rather not use someone else's custom design cues though, and instead implement my own. 

 

image.thumb.png.84bff2d5b713f8af73199df9f1291172.png

 

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Most elegant! Love your work, have you spent any time looking at alternatiives to plugging the board directly into the the ten pin connector? Have you got holes for mounting alternatives planned for the final version? If all connections are hardwired to your board, what's the height to the tallest component, the LEDs? Bending the wires 90 degrees will probably be a taller component? The thruholes for the Molex connector look oversize,what's the diameter? Angling the direct wire connections in those larger holes will lower their profile significantly. I'm thinking of the IIcx form factor Big Can PSU.

 

BTW, there's plenty of room over the 04 for a Pirate Flag shaped PCB to be mounted. With a right angled fan connector and the resistor on a bottom edge it would look very slick. especially mounted to just about anything with a couple of dots of hot glue. [}:)]

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Tallest would be the Molex connector, followed by the LEDs followed by the inverter, particularly if socketed. Could always go for minimum height by using 3mm LEDs (or no LEDs - they're just diag things) and just soldering the inverter to the board (no real reason to socket tbh). 

 

If wiring is a concern, going with a Molex 39-29-1247 (Minifit Jr 24 pin, right angle) could potentially work however I didn't really consider that when doing the Revision 2 layout. As-is, throwing a right angle on would exit towards all the board components, meaning you'd never get a connector in. Good news is no V2 boards have been produced, so that problem can easily be fixed. The V1 board with the 5VSB issue would accommodate a right angle no problem, with the catch that the top resistor would need to be soldered to the bottom side of the board. Easy enough to do. 

 

The other option would be to throw the board out on leads and run it somewhere else in the case. Downside to this is there isn't a preterminated Minifit 10 pin-on-wires available. They'd all need to be hand crimped (or soldered, if using the 15-24-7100 connector). Cutting down a 20 or 24 pin ATX extension is also doable, but it's not a very pretty result. Maybe ultimately it'd be easier to just buy 10 pin housings and use pin extractors on the extensions rather than dremeling off 10-14 pins. Not as cheap as hand crimping but it's a lot less labor. 

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No Molex connectors used on your board everything is hardwired to your PCB. That way your board doesn't need to be located on top of the Mac's power connector.

 

P2020381.JPG

 

The 10-pin plug connector isn't gong to be installed on your board, it's wired up to to it as above. The Molex MoBo connector is lopped off the ATX wiring harness at the desired length and saved for another day. The wires from  the ATX PCB are then are soldered directly to your board.

 

I needed a lot more power for playing at Rocketizing my IIsi, so a spare Q700's sheet metal got a bit of modification. It now sits nicely upside down on the FDD housing for playtime.

 

Your board would sit under the back of my angled FlexATX installation in the IIsi can.

 

Macintosh IIsi FlexATX Conversion Madness.

 

 

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That I have. The creator is active over on Vogons and has a thread about it. It's quite a bit more complicated but that also means quite a bit more cost. As-is, we're looking at parts cost of ~$7.26 in components (if you do singles and buy resistors/LEDs in singles off Mouser). If I straight up ordered parts for 20 boards at once it comes down to $5.61/board in components. I'm really after something that's doable for under like $25 fully assembled and shipped to the US. I'd be doing assembly myself to cut on cost which is easy enough, it's easier than building a PC Retro kit.

 

I'm not too terribly concerned with OCP/short circuit protection. The Mac IIs aren't particularly known for exploding unlike the PC side of things. I've personally been hit by exploding tantalums in PC things which isn't fun. That, and the board would costs 3x as much in parts and require SMT soldering. Doable from a production standpoint, not good as a cheap DIY kit. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

No Molex connectors used on your board everything is hardwired to your PCB. That way your board doesn't need to be located on top of the Mac's power connector.

 

The 10-pin plug connector isn't gong to be installed on your board, it's wired up to to it as above. The Molex MoBo connector is lopped off the ATX wiring harness at the desired length and saved for another day. The wires from  the ATX PCB are then are soldered directly to your board. 

 

 

That's always an option one could do. I'm a big fan of pretty all-in-one designs however there's nothing stopping you from doing that with an unassembled/partially assembled board. That's the beauty of kit-type things, you can do pretty much whatever you want. Desolder the connector from the Mac IIc* board and just bodge the board on permanently with no connectors at all, I'm not the boss.

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20 hours ago, Compgeke said:

image.thumb.png.84bff2d5b713f8af73199df9f1291172.png

 

 

You might want to make that single 5V trace bigger or run some more traces (or make one big 5V plane on top and a ground plane on the bottom)

Saves you a lot of traces and will make for a nice chunk of copper to actually carry some current.

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Okay, I got some of those boards today! There are some issues as expected, but I've already fixed all of them in a newer design (V2R2). 

 

F6U5yKM.jpg

 

Other than using a bunch of recycled parts ripped off of other stuff, here's something a lot closer to the idea I had in my head. You might notice a few things right away; fan header, cut trace and how tiny those traces are. All 3 are known problems fixed in the newer designs. 

PPKJmaM.jpg

 

Here's the back half. An ID 10T error caused the 7404 to be routed to 5V rather than 5VSB. That required a cut trace and to be patched over.

AHDwtC8.jpg

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Bolle said:

 

You might want to make that single 5V trace bigger or run some more traces (or make one big 5V plane on top and a ground plane on the bottom)

Saves you a lot of traces and will make for a nice chunk of copper to actually carry some current.

 

Don't worry, that's being fixed in the newer layout. I'm rotating the ATX connector 180* so you can use a right angle connector if wanted to have side exiting wires rather than straight up and down. Along with that the traces are going to be 50% bigger yet again over that schematic view, ~2.5x bigger than what you see on the prototype production board above. 

 

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