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Trash80toHP_Mini

My Quicksilver is keeping me warm! :-D

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Folks are often talking about computers in terms of energy bills. An incandescent light bulb is a 90% efficient space heater used in well houses everywhere off the municipal water grid. They only lose 10% effieiency in wasted light energy. I played around in AI for a bit earlier today on the QS'02 and left it on without really thinking about it. It's nippy outside so I just left it on and closed the bedroom door.

 

How much energy is wasted in unused computing cycles when using a G3-G4-G5 PowerMac as a space heater? Curious about its efficiency as compared to my little ceramic heater? :lol:

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G3's and most G4's don't use that much electricity, the G5's do.

 

PowerPC 750fx (aka G3) puts out 3.6W at 900Mhz

 

PowerPC 970 (aka G5) puts out 42W at 1.8Ghz

 

 My main machine that heats up my room a bit has 2 Opterons rated at 115W each TDP at 2.6Ghz (2 x 4 core) but when idleing at 800mhz the heat output is much less.

 

You still have the heat output of whatever GPU you are using and HDs plus the efficiency of the Power supply. 

 

 

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Forgot about the two LCDs and the quarantined Firefox Notebook workstation running a slideshow to keep it and this window from falling asleep while I'm watching a movie on the 42" flat screen which puts out a litlle heat along with a tiny bit from the DVD player. When winter gets here I should swap out all fourteen light bulbs in my closet/bedroom/bathroom/laundry closet suite from LED to incandescent. I can light them up as heaters at will, fire up the Win98 workstation and put on a sweater if needs be. It's plenty toasty enough in a long sleeve t-shirt, sweat pants and bare feet as is right now. :approve:

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I'd say a typical single cpu tower computer usually draws somewhere around 100W when idling and 150-200W when working hard, the trick would be how to implement a working thermostat so you have a feature complete space heater... Maybe hook a digital thermometer to a serial port and write a simple program to only waste cpu cycles when the room temperature is below the setpoint? :D

 

http://ppcluddite.blogspot.com/2012/07/power-consumption-on-power-macs.html has some more exact figures for various tower macs. Seems like the G5 is the one to get if you want a proper furnace!

 

I like the winter months, you get to leave all your computers on all the time without feeling too guilty about power consumption.

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LOL! I heard of one guy who used a PDP-8 setup for a heating system once upon a time.

 

Mostly I'm concerned about how efficient my electronics are as space heaters. I think I am going to swap my daylight LEDs out for incandescent bulbs for the winter. If I get depressed from the yellow light I can add MORE lamps to brighten the place up with the LEDs. One fall I started to get a little depressed and a buying daylight CFLs for the apartment and a pair of daylight fluorescent tubes for the kitchen cleared that right up, but most of the time Psychopharmaceuticals are required. :blink:

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During a boiler failure I once heated my room with three UNIX workstations.  Since they were quieter for a corresponding power draw than a fan heater, I assume they were more efficient: certainly less energy was escaping in other ways!  It worked, anyway.

 

And I hear you about the lights: the only way I stay sane in winter is having loads of daylight CFLs and keeping myself on a roughly summer sunset time (by having two sets of lamps and at "virtual sunset" turning off all the daylight bulbs and turning on tungsten-coloured ones) all year round.

Edited by cheesestraws

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I seem to be lucky, in that over here in CA, even in the middle of winter, most days generally have enough daylight to keep me feeling OK.

 

I definitely feel less happy than during the summer months, though*, because the days get too short and it's less warm.

 

c

 

*All the fires lately have caused me to not enjoy summer quite as much as I used to (particularly late summer and fall, when vegetation is driest).

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I remember back when I was using my 2008 Mac Pro that when I closed all the doors to my room, it never really got it warm per se, but it definitely took the edge off.

 

Ironically, the 2009/2010 Mac Pro I got to replace it ran noticeably warmer (especially with its stock CPUs; it cooled down somewhat when I upgraded it to the X5680s it has now), despite the fact that it is theoretically more efficient.

 

c

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TDP numbers have started to mean something else in the past couple years, but in that era, it would've been fairly spot on. At this point, TDP is more about a target and the actual power output and cooling needs are largely up to the needed performance and the design of a particular system or implementation, at least on mobile. They're closer on desktop, mostly because most wintel-focused desktop implementations end up designed and cooled similarly. I think most of what "TDP doesn't mean anything any more" really has to do with is letting chips turbo further for longer than before, creating scenarios where a chip whose TDP is, say, 15 or 28w might run at 35w full-time if it's cooled well and you load it down with work. That's not bad necessarily but you can no longer take TDP as the maximum a chip can output like you could basically up until 2011-2013.

 

One thing to be aware of is that GPUs got good at idling and reducing their own power usage years after CPUs did, so a MacPro 4,1 or 5,1 with its stock graphics card is likely a fair bit worse at conserving energy and not putting out unnecessary heat than, say, one with an upgraded GPU. So if a 2008 Mac Pro had a basic graphics card like a GT120 and a 2010 one had a high end one like a Radeon 5870 or similar, that might explain some of the difference in power usage. There's also the rest of the peripheral loadout and configuration, and things like how well or if cooling/thermal interface materials was maintained. i.e. a machine that's pouring heat out might be doing better for itself than one that isn't pushing the heat out, but, that's all highly dependent on lots of specific context information.

 

The Mac Pro 1,1 with an original/early high end video card is a "great" heater, especially if you have a fairly early CPU stepping, as even within a particular CPU model's run, different steppings can have different thermal and power properties. I'm told that better-on-power Xeon 5100 series chips do exist. The gotcha of course is that the MP1,1's high end video card options aren't that reliable. I've got two failed Radeon X1900XTs I intend to replace at some point with something stock from a 4,1 or a 5,1.

 

To be honest, the QuickSilver probably wasn't doing much of the warming if you alsoleft three or four big LCD displays on at full brightness. As noted, G3s and G4s use almost no power, and if your Mac has any power savings enabled at all, it wasn't spinning its hard disks, and G4-era graphics cards don't draw all that much either.

 

My QS'02@800 barely puts out heat at all. On its own, it wouldn't be able to budge the temperature of a bedroom.

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I mean this is not a G3/G4/G5... but it goes along with this and it's an interesting little fact. 

 

In the official Macintosh Plus manual that came with the computer, there's a page in it that says this: 

 

IMG_1696.jpeg

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On 11/24/2019 at 1:49 PM, Cory5412 said:

To be honest, the QuickSilver probably wasn't doing much of the warming if you alsoleft three or four big LCD displays on at full brightness

Tangentially, as part of work-from-home, I brought a Dell U2711, which I mentioned in the lounge thread about 27-inch monitors, and I'm running it at roughly  50% brightness, and I it's just a little closer to my face than my normal 19-24-inch monitors (single 19 at home, dual 24s at work) and it's real hot. The backlight needed for 27 inches of screen is almost certainly IMMENSE compared to what's needed to run a smaller display.

 

I now have no doubt whatsoever that running a handful of big LCD displays is, compared with what a QS'02 can put out, the real thing that's heating your room.

 

Just saw the note about the 42-inch TV. There's a proper heat monster. I bet that puts out a lot of heat. Even if it's using LEDs (my U2711 is) there's gotta be lots of them, almost the entire edge of the whole display, outputting at very high intensity, to get an image showing on the display.

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Actually, in an enclosed windowless space your light bulb is 100% efficient as a heater. All the light that's absorbed by the walls also becomes heat.

Almost everything that uses electricity eventually turns it into heat

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LOL! This topic is back again. How timely!

 

I've definitely missed having the QS next to my feets all winter. C, all the LCDs definitely help keep the room warm and tangentially my feets to some extent. However they don't do a whole lotta good for my tootsies! Today it's a little bit nippy outside and I've had the fan pulling air in through the bedroom window across the room behind me and exhausting it out next to the wood/metal/plexi workbench in the living room. With the 42" LCD pulled around toward my desk just right, the QS exhaust is waftin up nicely and keeping me noticeably warmer, with the notable exception of my feets. I'm having some great AI playtime today and then it's off to the trenches again tomorrow, thank goodness!

 

KVMd_Again.00.JPG

 

Just remembered that this pic shows what's going on. An appreciable percentage of the QS exhaust is heading my way from under and around the LCD on the right.

 

If the next roommate (heaven only knows when that might happen during this COVID-19 situation) wants to use the teak desk there'll definitely be some ductwork going in to this temporary new setup to keep my tootsies warm next winter.

 

1 hour ago, waynestewart said:

Actually, in an enclosed windowless space your light bulb is 100% efficient as a heater. All the light that's absorbed by the walls also becomes heat.

Almost everything that uses electricity eventually turns it into heat

Hadn't thought of that, however much of that heat will be conducted through the drywall and to the outside no matter how well the space is insulated. So I'm guessing the efficiency of an incandescent bulb is probably closer to 90% than 100% for all practical purposes.

 

But if anything was about practical purposes, why would any of us be here? :lol:

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On 4/10/2020 at 4:30 PM, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

But if anything was about practical purposes, why would any of us be here? :lol:

Truer words have never been spoken! [:D]

 

c

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On 4/9/2020 at 9:14 PM, Cory5412 said:

I now have no doubt whatsoever that running a handful of big LCD displays is, compared with what a QS'02 can put out, the real thing that's heating your room.

I tried out a fancy-pants 27" 4K HDR10 LCD once and it had a fan in it. An LCD with active cooling! I was slightly astonished. 

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On 4/10/2020 at 4:30 PM, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

Hadn't thought of that, however much of that heat will be conducted through the drywall and to the outside no matter how well the space is insulated. So I'm guessing the efficiency of an incandescent bulb is probably closer to 90% than 100% for all practical purposes.

 

But if anything was about practical purposes, why would any of us be here? :lol:

It doesn't matter how well the room is insulated. If there are no windows or openings then all the light is absorbed by the walls so either way 100%  of the wattage used by the bulb ends up ad heat.

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