Jump to content
maceffects

SCSI2SD Issues

Recommended Posts

On 11/10/2019 at 8:02 PM, Realitystorm said:

Providing power through the USB connection seems to be a common fix. 

This is exactly what I had to do to get these to get to a point where I could install the OS onto the SD cards I bought for my IIsi's.  I needed a bootable System 6.08 disk, LIDO, and the case on the IIsi open with the USB cable attached to the SCSI2SD board and the IIsi powered by its conventional power source (i.e. plugged into the wall).  LIDO was necessary for setting up the virtual hard drives, but it could not see them unless the SCSI2SD board was powered by the USB cable.  I also had a peculiar issue where I could not install OS 7.1 unless I had 6.08 on the hard drive first.  I did that by dragging the disk image from the bootable floppy to the virtual drive at SCSI ID 0, then booting the IIsi up from that, and installing System 7.1 over the top using a set of install disks.  For some reason, If I tried to just install 7.1 onto a bare drive, it wouldn't boot.  Weird, but that's how it went.  I also found that in my IIsi's, I absolutely MUST use the molex to floppy style connector to power the SCSI2SD board once all of the software issues are straightened out.  Neither of the IIsi's would boot if I tried to use only the SCSI cable for power.  I am not having that problem with the g3 I am currently working on.  The SCSI cable supplies enough power in it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@maceffects what version SCSI2SD devices do you have?  I have had major issues (as evidenced above) but made some progress recently. 

 

I have two 5.0a versions and those are a major problem.  One of them had somewhat old firmware on it, but even with updating, I've had nothing but issues with that model; they don't show up AT ALL anymore on the SE/30.

 

I switched to two 5.1 versions (trying to copy from one to the other) and those are better.  But I still had an issue (termination conflict) with both of them terminated via the SW utility setup and one on the external SCSI bus powered.  When I removed the power from the external one, then they both worked fine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/26/2019 at 1:39 PM, pcamen said:

@maceffects what version SCSI2SD devices do you have?  I have had major issues (as evidenced above) but made some progress recently. 

 

I have two 5.0a versions and those are a major problem.  One of them had somewhat old firmware on it, but even with updating, I've had nothing but issues with that model; they don't show up AT ALL anymore on the SE/30.

 

I switched to two 5.1 versions (trying to copy from one to the other) and those are better.  But I still had an issue (termination conflict) with both of them terminated via the SW utility setup and one on the external SCSI bus powered.  When I removed the power from the external one, then they both worked fine.  

Blaming SCSI2SD for "issues" when _you_ have configured termination on your SCSI bus incorrectly is absurd. You have to have termination configured properly, regardless of the type/manufacturer of SCSI devices you choose to use.  SCSI termination is _simple_ You must have termination at the END(s) of your SCSI chains, period. Not in the middle, not double-terminated. If you do anything but that, you can and SHOULD expect problems, as it's electrically incorrect, per the SCSI specification.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2019 at 7:18 PM, maceffects said:

So I bought 5 SCSI2SD boards and have had major issues getting them to work.  I am trying on 3 different SE/30 machines.  I followed the instructions on how to flash it to work with Macs, but when installed in an SE/30 it doesn't show up (using Apple Drive software and Lido).  They do sometimes produce a steady but slow flash of the activity LED light.  Am I missing something? 

There are zero details in this post. How was your SCSI2SD configured? Volume size? Was it the only device on the bus? Was it installed internally? Was termination enabled? Which utility did you attempt to use to partition your SCSI2SD? Which version of System?

 

The fact that, by your own admission, they didn't work on three different machines, points to a likely mis-configuration of your SCSI2SD, so please cite the instructions you reference above, so we can verify they're correct.

 

If you open scsi2sd-util, read the config from the board, save it as an XML file, and upload it here, I can help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@aperezbios 1.99gb, and the SCSI termination was proper for the SE/30 machines.  No other devices on the SCSI bus.  Attached is a photo showing exactly what I put in.  Sorry the text is white, I have no idea why that is.  Its easier to read in person.

IMG_9173.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, maceffects said:

@aperezbios 1.99gb, and the SCSI termination was proper for the SE/30 machines.  No other devices on the SCSI bus.  Attached is a photo showing exactly what I put in.  Sorry the text is white, I have no idea why that is.  Its easier to read in person. 

 

I asked a number of specific questions above, but you've not answered several of them. This is not helpful. Specifically, Which utility did you attempt to use to partition your SCSI2SD? Which version of System? The config you posted the above screenshot of won't work, nor is expected to work, with the original, un-patched Apple disk formatting utility. Third party utilities such as Lido and FWB Hard Disk toolkit should be able to partition SCSI drives which aren't configured with the necessary Apple-approved vendor strings.

 

I now have one more question for you, regarding SCSI2SD-util...in the screenshot posted above, at the bottom of the window, it says 'save failed', so are you certain that this config is what's actually written to your SCSI2SD board? Do you know which version(s) of firmware are on your SCSI2SD?

 

The attached scsi2sd-util configuration file can be opened in SCSI2SD-util, then saved to your board. It configures your SCSI2SD as per the instructions in this thread:

 

SCSI2SD-MacClassic-1.99GB-ST225N.xml

Edited by aperezbios

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, aperezbios said:

I asked a number of specific questions above, but you've not answered several of them. This is not helpful. Specifically, Which utility did you attempt to use to partition your SCSI2SD? Which version of System? The config you posted the above screenshot of won't work, nor is expected to work, with the Apple disk formatting utility. Third party utilities such as Lido and FWB Hard Disk toolkit should be able to partition SCSI drives which aren't configured with the necessary Apple-approved vendor strings.

 

I now have one more question for you, regarding SCSI2SD-util...in the screenshot posted above, at the bottom of the window, it says 'save failed', so are you certain that this config is what's actually written to your SCSI2SD board? Do you know which version(s) of firmware are on your SCSI2SD?

 

The attached scsi2sd-util configuration file can be opened in SCSI2SD-util, then saved to your board. It configures your SCSI2SD as per the instructions in this thread:

 

SCSI2SD-MacClassic-1.99GB-ST225N.xml

The current situation:

1) Using SCSI2SD V5.1 with the above attached configuration

2) Tried using LIDO, FWB, and Apple Utility (each gives an error similar to attached) or doesn't show it.  I, of course, realize I must format using a utility outside of the SCSI2SD Utility

3) Machines tried 3 different SE/30 machines

4) That was a different image, I went and tried again just now with the the same spec as listed in the above photo.  Save was successful

5) Firmware 4.8.3 which I've not changed since last attempting in November

 

IMG_9175.jpeg

Edited by maceffects

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you using the same, or different, ribbon cables, when you try between your macs? That's another area where people sometimes get bit.

 

Formatting SD cards beforehand has _zero_ effect on anything at all, and is generally a waste of your time. People do it all the time, but it's generally completely unnecessary. The SCSI2SD firmware doesn't give any shits what's on the SD card before you partition it, and knows nothing about filesystems; It simply performs block-for-block pass-through.

 

Also, it looks like you're using MacOS with Dark Mode enabled, so if you'd like to test this native MacOS version of scsi2sd-util, be my guest. It should solve that cosmetic problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've tried 2 different ribbons, one that was standard and one that was longer (made for plug in and out easier).  You are right, I changed the settings to normal rather than Dark Mode and it resolved the textual display issue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, maceffects said:

I've tried 2 different ribbons, one that was standard and one that was longer (made for plug in and out easier).  You are right, I changed the settings to normal rather than Dark Mode and it resolved the textual display issue.  

Okay, good. And, to confirm, both of these ribbon cables are _known working_? They are known to work with normal hard drives?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, aperezbios said:

Okay, good. And, to confirm, both of these ribbon cables are _known working_? They are known to work with normal hard drives?

Yes, they both work with standard spinning disk hard drives.  I just updated the firmware and repeated the testing and still have the same result.  It can't find the drive.

 

@jessenator thanks!  Thanks nearly exactly what I have.  The only difference I can tell would be that I wrote 1.99 since I wasn't sure if the 2gb cap meant to have less size.  I just tried with 2gb and the same result I'm afraid. 

IMG_9178.jpeg

IMG_9177.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@aperezbios the SCSI2SD is mounted on a 3d printed bracket I bought designed for the SCSI2SD.  Unfortunately, all the playing with the floppy disk with Lido on it, now the disk isn't working.  But I did run TattleTech (which at least shows it), SCSI Probe which shows but fails to mount, and Apples updated hard drive application which fails to recognize it.  Videos of those 3 linked below:

 

https://youtu.be/RwPvJh_lOQE

https://youtu.be/g43B6SBvxW8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I said "video of your SCSI2SD" I meant _of the SCSI2SD_ not of your Mac/monitor. Apparently I wasn't clear enough. The fact that SCSIProbe sees the device means it's working, and you've got a configuration error of some sort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the SCSIProbe screenshot you provided, the "product" string appears empty. This needs to be set to something, and the default string is SCSI2SD. I suspect this may be the issue. Please double check your configuration has something set in the product string. Frankly, I am not convinced you're saving your configuration to the board properly. Simply changing the values in SCSI2SD, without also subsequently saving the configuration to the board, via "File.. Save to device", is insufficient to commit the changes to the board. If you were truly using the values from the XML file  I attached, as claimed,  you would see that string in SCSIProbe

Edited by aperezbios

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only thing the SCSI2SD will do during the SCSI Probe or Lido is one faint illumination of the LED.  Nothing else of any diagnostic value.  I'm certain it is saved properly.  I can record that if needed to prove.  However, for now I'm going to take a break for messing with it.  I'll try more things tomorrow and put it under a scope to see if there are any board defects. 

Edited by maceffects

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know such things sound absurd, but have you tried something ridiculous, like attaching it to the external SCSI port while running off the internal drive? Making it something other than ID 0? I know none of these suggestions make logical sense, but sometimes I've had to do ridiculous crap (attach multiple drives, supplying power via USB or molex, etc). just to get the damn thing working before I place it inside on it's own. Don't ask me, it must be gremlins. When intuitive solutions don't work, I try crazy things. I also have had success formatting/partitioning the SD card up front with OS X 10.4, for example, and leaving the tail end of the SD card as "free space", then setting the total number of GB on the SCSI2SD config drive size as larger than the real partitions, leading it into the free space (so I don't accidentally tell it to end in the middle of a partition).

 

Sorry if any of this sounds nuts; I've just had prior success.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you ever read the setting from the SCSI2SD? If they where saved right, then you should see the settings as you set it. Perhaps the saving of the settings did not work.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, aperezbios said:

Blaming SCSI2SD for "issues" when _you_ have configured termination on your SCSI bus incorrectly is absurd. You have to have termination configured properly, regardless of the type/manufacturer of SCSI devices you choose to use.  SCSI termination is _simple_ You must have termination at the END(s) of your SCSI chains, period. Not in the middle, not double-terminated. If you do anything but that, you can and SHOULD expect problems, as it's electrically incorrect, per the SCSI specification.

I DID have things terminated correctly.  One was on the internal SCSI cable and had termination on and the other was through a SCSI cable attached to the external port, also with termination enabled.  But in this configuration I had issues.  With a power source applied to the external one they would not work reliably and one of the SCSI utilities complained that there was a termination issue.  Take the power off the external one and the problem goes away.

Edited by pcamen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/26/2020 at 5:18 PM, maceffects said:

The only thing the SCSI2SD will do during the SCSI Probe or Lido is one faint illumination of the LED.  Nothing else of any diagnostic value.  I'm certain it is saved properly.  I can record that if needed to prove.  However, for now I'm going to take a break for messing with it.  I'll try more things tomorrow and put it under a scope to see if there are any board defects. 

Yes, we should verify this is correct. All you need to do is attach your scsi2sd, read the config with File...read from device, then SAVE THE XML FILE (screenshots are insufficient, as if there is corrupted string data, it may not be displayed properly by the GUI), and share that here. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×