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North Hedge Ned

Different Macintosh in Original User Guide?

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There we go - the originals are too big I guess. Funny how my iPhone makes the screen look blue.  It's really b&w - for real.

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Edited by North Hedge Ned

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25 minutes ago, North Hedge Ned said:

With the floppy removed, you can clearly see in the metal an opening large enough for a Twiggy Drive, and the floppy carrier for the Sony plugs that hole up.

This is the case for all of the original Macs through the Plus, although it does look like the drive mount in yours might be a less refined version of the metal stampings in later models. It doesn't prove that your machine originally had a Twiggy drive at any point. But your motherboard and other parts at least overlap with Twiggy models, so... yeah. Congratulations on getting it going!

 

I wonder how long machines like this were kicking around Apple HQ and in the hands of early developers before the survivors all ended up in the closet. (Possibly quite a while given they're apparently able to run the shipped software versions.) It'd be a laugh to run across one that had been modified for 512k RAM. ;)

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Outstanding! So nice to see a prototype machine alive and well!

 

I gotta say, I am indeed a little jealous :) 

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Nice pics. Even that Sony drive is probably a proto. Do you have a shot of the front? I have a couple very early ones where the copper heat sink is different. Wondering if yours looks the same.

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13 hours ago, unity said:

Nice pics. Even that Sony drive is probably a proto. Do you have a shot of the front? I have a couple very early ones where the copper heat sink is different. Wondering if yours looks the same.

Sorry Unity, I didn't;t take a shot of the other bits of the Sony drive.  If I have it open again, I will, or certainly the other unit.  I need to open it and try to tackle its functionality, despite the CRT being different than the working unit.  Stay tuned.

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On 6/3/2019 at 12:20 PM, North Hedge Ned said:

There we go - the originals are too big I guess. Funny how my iPhone makes the screen look blue.  It's really b&w - for real.

That's because the phosphor really is more of a blue than a true white. If you play with white balance in editing, setting for the Mac casing will make the screen blue, setting for the screen will make everything else very yellow. Easiest fix is to just do an edit of both and overlay the screen on top.

 

Here's a Mac SE next to a Radius FPD which has an actual black and white tube in it, you can tell a real difference with the Mac tube. Outside of a camera, your eye just makes it seem black\white rather than blueish.

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Edited by Compgeke

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The tube in the B&W macs is a model intended for inexpensive televisions and uses a very cheap P4 phosphor formulation. I think technically most "Paper White" computer monitors also use a "P4" phosphor, but there were variations intended to de-blue it and slightly improve its persistence, because the TV formulation is actually pretty hard on the eyes in terms of flicker. That problem mostly doesn't matter on the Mac, though, because the screen is so small and the center of your visual field isn't very sensitive to flickering. Large B&W monitors with TV phosphors can look like strobe lights up close.

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On 6/3/2019 at 3:15 PM, North Hedge Ned said:

With the floppy removed, you can clearly see in the metal an opening large enough for a Twiggy Drive, and the floppy carrier for the Sony plugs that hole up.

That's the same punch pattern in the face of the chassis as all shipping units through the Plus. The interesting part is that raised section at top.center. IIRC they changed it to a straight across pattern with the SE. Early prototypes used the Apple II FDD and the notch was required to clear the release mechanism. SE and SE/30 retain an opening in the chassis for a 5.25" drive, but not the Apple II/Shugart drive notch. Twiggy didn't require notch AFAIK.

 

IMG_5259 copy.JPG

 

 

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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2 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

That's the same punch pattern in the face of the chassis as all shipping units through the Plus. The interesting part is that raised section at top.center. IIRC they changed it to a straight across pattern with the SE. Early prototypes used the Apple II FDD and the notch was required to clear the release mechanism. SE and SE/30 retain an opening in the chassis for a 5.25" drive, but not the Apple II/Shugart drive notch. Twiggy didn't require notch AFAIK

Cool Trash - great insight.  Certainly some unique fish mash of design in these babies.  I think I am going to keep one of them, especially if I can get the one with video issues working.  Might be a stretch though.

2 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

 

 

 

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Hi everyone - I am going to continue this thread in a new one entitled "Help revive an Original Macintosh Prototype".  Reason is, I wish to try and repair the sister machine that I mention here with the video issue.  

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 in the new thread as indicated, but I wanted to add some new data that I have uncovered to "close the case" so to speak.  Both units have the #6 revision logic board as per folklore.org.  Part number 820-0086-00.  May 1983.  ROM 7's so close to final os possible, but the Sony drives are pre-release.  Waiting to hear back from first-hand sources on then they figure these units place in the timeline - likely the start of the Sony drive option process.  As others have pointed out:  The cases are genuine prototypes, even the venting is different between Twiggy units, mine, and production 128's.  Looking to find these units' places in history right next to the Twiggy's, or is it Twiggies?

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@North Hedge Ned I've seen Twiggy prototypes that have your front plate, but they cut away at the plastic so the floppy would fit.  So even the Twiggy Protos occasionally had the 3.5" faceplate.   They were obviously trying all sorts of different things.  Just because yours has the 3.5", doesn't mean it wasn't around the same time as the Twiggy.  You could argue that it was after Twiggy development, but the afore mentioned cut-away Twiggy would indicate otherwise.  Obviously some simultaneous development going on.

 

Certainly after the Disk ][ prototype, but could be concurrent with Twiggy.  Only person who would really know would be an Apple engineer.

 

Might be worth contacting the Vintage Computer Museum in Mountain View, California, USA.  They might actually have someone on staff who could tell you.

 

Provenance is one of the most important thing about these old machines.

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39 minutes ago, olePigeon said:

@North Hedge Ned I've seen Twiggy prototypes that have your front plate, but they cut away at the plastic so the floppy would fit.  So even the Twiggy Protos occasionally had the 3.5" faceplate.   They were obviously trying all sorts of different things.  Just because yours has the 3.5", doesn't mean it wasn't around the same time as the Twiggy.  You could argue that it was after Twiggy development, but the afore mentioned cut-away Twiggy would indicate otherwise.  Obviously some simultaneous development going on.

 

Certainly after the Disk ][ prototype, but could be concurrent with Twiggy.  Only person who would really know would be an Apple engineer.

 

Might be worth contacting the Vintage Computer Museum in Mountain View, California, USA.  They might actually have someone on staff who could tell you.

 

Provenance is one of the most important thing about these old machines.

olePigeon, thanks for chiming in.  Information I gathered from emails exchanged with Jerry Manock, who was the case designer, confirmed that these were likely just after the Twiggy and just when they started to use the Sony drives.  Manock stated to me that there were likely soft tooled, just before they ramped up the Freemont factory.  Since the logic boards are the same versions as the Twiggy, my two system are likely former Twiggies with the innards changed (Sony ROM too) and a different faceplate, of which has PTA Prototype stamped inside of it too.  The Sony drives are not full release either, with handwritten numbers on them like the rest of the proto parts in the units.

 

Just might reach out to the VCM that you mention - never know.  Strange that we have not seen more of these units.  I have two.  They were gathering dust on the shelves in the warehouse of Apple Canada in Markham.  I worked there and struck a deal with them to get my hands on them - a work in lieu of cash deal.

 

Attached are the photos of the Sony drives...

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What is the number on the side of the drive? For example, mine Sony Model OA-D32V-01. The number is 100535, which I assume means it was the 535th one made.

 

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On 9/14/2019 at 9:20 PM, jraust said:

What is the number on the side of the drive? For example, mine Sony Model OA-D32V-01. The number is 100535, which I assume means it was the 535th one made.

 

The only markings were on the back - 100036, as pictured above.  jraust - would really love to see pix of your unit in here.  I thought that I had the only 2 that were known about.

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