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Uloga

Starting on the SE

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Hello everyone,

I'm recently new to the Mac SE and after previously (succesfully) recapping a Mac LC, I was thinking of fixing the SE's I have lying around.

 

So this is the Original SE, NOT SE/30!

 

I gave the board a wash & clean already (with isopropanol & cue-tips).

But I'm still not able to get it to boot. Also it's like I don't hear the HDD spinning, but rather "ticking" twice.

IMG_20190504_203652.thumb.jpg.b81b07768f03d5e4ef71d367386a2087.jpg

 

Recapping is not an issue, but I'd rather only do it if necessary and if someone can point me in the correct capacitor direction.

Since online I can only find the SE/30 schematics and capacitor plans, but not for the SE (Original)

 

Attached some photo's of the little monster.

 

IMG_20190504_164213.thumb.jpg.a1b07368009482a4d323f91ca2906043.jpg

IMG_20190504_203200.thumb.jpg.5e10211fd0c3b6ab27f93731e7d1ba6e.jpg

 

IMG_20190504_203146.thumb.jpg.6336354611640160fae53866b0067a4e.jpg

 

IMG_20190504_203428.thumb.jpg.0467f13fabee591e99738cc41b9898c2.jpgIMG_20190504_203542.thumb.jpg.3382c3a55d58f4afbbdb83a783b7efc4.jpg

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It appears you are missing two RAM SIMMs, which would cause the sad Mac that you see on the screen. All four slots must be populated on an SE.

 

As for the hard drive, it appears to be a Seagate, and is likely suffering from stiction (which is when the read/write heads become “stuck” to the platter surface).

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52 minutes ago, PB145B said:

It appears you are missing two RAM SIMMs, which would cause the sad Mac that you see on the screen. All four slots must be populated on an SE.

 

As for the hard drive, it appears to be a Seagate, and is likely suffering from stiction (which is when the read/write heads become “stuck” to the platter surface).

About the RAM, that's strange I didn't know that I've never removed anything, are you sure I need 4?

EDIT: I just ordered a 4x 1MB kit from eBay, let's see if this helps.

 

Would you recommend a replacement or a fix for that hard drive?

Edited by Uloga

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You don’t need 4 SIMMs in the SE as it has a 16bit bus.

Two SIMMs are totally fine if the jumper (or resistor on older boards) is set accordingly.

 

Fixing the hard drive will only be a temporary solution. You could try giving it a slight whack to get the heads to loose from their position.

If that won’t work open the drive and see if you can really carefully move the head armature once the drive tries to start.

You can easily damage the heads and or tracks on the platters that way but it is worth a try on an otherwise dead drive.

 

For a replacement for the drive you can look into the SCSI2SD or Floppyemu.

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15 minutes ago, Bolle said:

You don’t need 4 SIMMs in the SE as it has a 16bit bus.

Two SIMMs are totally fine if the jumper (or resistor on older boards) is set accordingly.

 

Any idea how to check this?

 

 

Also for the disks, I have other disks I can try, I have a spare one from a dead SE/30 maybe that'll work.

Edited by Uloga

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35 minutes ago, Bolle said:

You don’t need 4 SIMMs in the SE as it has a 16bit bus.

I stand corrected! Sorry for the misinformation! Didn’t realize an SE could run with only two installed.

 

Edit: But bad ram is a very high possibility. Either way you can’t go wrong with maxing the RAM out, so ordering that memory was definitely worth it.

Edited by PB145B

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Alright, so it seems the HDD's I have laying around here all needed some mild "tapping" before they started to spin.

 

I had a Quantum 1.2GB laying around and tried that one, but no luck still.

The original  40MB was a bust, threw that one away.

 

So I'm waiting for my new RAM to come in and test some further.

Also I've ordered a USB => Floppy and some floppy drives. Got myself the System 7 images ready to go.

 

Next up is cleaning the floppy drive:

Is it enough to just "swab" the heads with some isopropyl alcohol (my new favorite cleaning tool by the way!)?

 

Or do I need to get some WD40 as well to lubricate some parts?

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1 hour ago, Uloga said:

Next up is cleaning the floppy drive:

Is it enough to just "swab" the heads with some isopropyl alcohol (my new favorite cleaning tool by the way!)?

 

Or do I need to get some WD40 as well to lubricate some parts?

So apparently you cannot edit a post after too long.

Followed some tutorials online, now the floppy drive works flawlessly, it spits my floppy out across the room!

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2 hours ago, Uloga said:

Or do I need to get some WD40 as well to lubricate some parts?

 

No, that'll just gunk up everything in short order. You'll want to clean it up and use something like white lithium grease that doesn't dry out rapidly and won't attract dust.

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22 minutes ago, Compgeke said:

 

No, that'll just gunk up everything in short order. You'll want to clean it up and use something like white lithium grease that doesn't dry out rapidly and won't attract dust.

Oh damn, I did it with WD40 since that's what I'm used to use on things that should move when they're not.

I'll just see how it goes and I can change it out later.

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You can always clean up the WD-40 easy after, and use actual grease. A good 18 or so years ago I used WD-40 and it turned basically into glue.

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Ok, so an update here.

I've received the new RAM and plugged it in.

 

On boot I receive a beep now, and I briefly see a mouse pointer.

After that I get a floppy icon and afterwards I get this screen:

PHOTO_20190519_152956.thumb.jpg.1a3320791cde48477628db51cb5e0212.jpg

 

 

So I tried formatting a 1.44MB drive and put system 7.0.5 on it, but no success.

So now I have ordered 400k floppies from eBay hoping those will work.

 

Any other ideas?

 

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Before you try making floppy disks, it is important to determine whether or not you have a "SuperDrive" or an 800k floppy drive. If you have a SuperDrive, your SE will be able to read high-density 1.4MB, 800k, and 400k-ish floppy disks. An 800k drive will not read anything high-density. Regardless, 400k floppy disks are probably better for use on older Macs --400k and 800k disks will be impossible to read or write to with your USB drive and will probably be way too small for a System 7 installer. 

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2 hours ago, davidg5678 said:

Before you try making floppy disks, it is important to determine whether or not you have a "SuperDrive" or an 800k floppy drive. If you have a SuperDrive, your SE will be able to read high-density 1.4MB, 800k, and 400k-ish floppy disks. An 800k drive will not read anything high-density. Regardless, 400k floppy disks are probably better for use on older Macs --400k and 800k disks will be impossible to read or write to with your USB drive and will probably be way too small for a System 7 installer. 

I meant I bought the 400k floppies with the whole System 7 on there ;-)

Is there a guide how to see if it's a superdrive?

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The error code 02 shows a problem with the SIMM in bank B. 

Did the SE boot from a disk? Then your problem is the scsi HDD. Disconnect the HDD and see if the error occurs again.

System 6 fits on 800k disks and can be used with a SE.  I would try it with 6.0.8.

After all that I can see of your FDD, it seems to be a 800k drive.

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If you look inside the floppy drive, there are usually a few switches near the opening.  There's a switch to detect when a disk is inserted.  There's a switch to detect write protect status.  If you have a superdrive, there is a switch to determine whether a HD disk is inserted.  An HD disk has a hole opposite the write protect hole;  a DSDD does not.

 

But dochilli is right, SE's with HD floppies usually have "Superdrive" or "FDHD" silkscreened on the front.

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My SE has "SE FDHD" on the front. Every SE that is equipped with a high-density drive has been clearly marked with it, in my experience.

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That card's interesting: this says 

 

Apple PC 5.25 Drive and Drive Cards

The Apple PC  5.25 Drive, in combination with the Macintosh II PC Drive Card or the Macintosh SE-Bus PC Drive Card, enable users to exchange data between their Apple and MS-DOS formatted 5.25-inch disks.

The Apple PC 5.25-inch Drive also allows users to exchange information with different types of MS-DOS machines that use the standard DB37 connector.

Together with the Macintosh II PC Drive Card or Macintosh SE-Bus PC Drive Card, a user can directly connect the Apple PC 5.25 Drive with a Macintosh II or Macintosh SE, respectively.

Both the Macintosh II and Macintosh SE-Bus PC Drive Cards are designed to work with the Macintosh II and Macintosh SE as controllers for the Apple PC 5.25 Drive. Internally mounted, these cards provide the interface that allows the Macintosh II and Macintosh SE to read and write files in the format familiar to MS-DOS programs.

Third-party developers will market co-processor cards that will work with the Apple PC 5.25 Drive and are designed to allow the Macintosh II or Macintosh SE to run PC application software.

The Apple PC 5.25 Drvie, in combination with InterFile, a utility, and the Macintosh II PC Drive Card or the Macintosh SE-Bus PC Drive Card, enables users to exchange data between their Apple and MS-DOS formatted 5.25-inch disks.

InterFile provides the software link to the data in the 5.25 drive. InterFile transfers data to a different application's format.  For example, with the proper translator, InterFile can translate a Multimate document to MacWrite document.  Apple and other companies will provide InterFile's application-to-application translators.

The Apple PC 5.25 Drive Card, the Macintosh II PC Drive Card, and the Macintosh SE-Bus PC Drive Card will be available in late June or early July, 1987.

Apple PC 5.25 Drive (A9M0110)
Macintosh II PC Drive Card (M5056)
Macintosh SE-Bus PC Drive Card (M5023)

AppleCare(SC00064) for the Apple PC 5.25 Drive is available for up to 36 months per contract.

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I have a couple of those cards. They were available for the Mac II and SE. I dont think for the SE/30. Need the drive to go with them and of course the connecting cable from the card to a port on the back of the SE.

As for SE 1.4MB drive labeling, I am not certain all of them had a marking. When the SE got upgraded to the 1.4mb drives, Apple slapped FDHD on the case then later "Superdrive" as that was the marketing name for 1.4 drives. But I have had plenty of late machines with no floppy markings at all on the front. I think they dropped the Superdrive marking at some point because it was the only Mac to have any sorta permanent case labeling pertaining to the floppy drive. With all Macs now having the 1.4 I think they dropped the labeling from the SE. Even though the Classic replaced the SE, I am guessing that the superdrive stamp was removed around that point or when the 40mb/2bm variation SE came out. The SE continued production for education, etc for some time. And there are sooooo many darn build variations.

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