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ants

Fun with colour on my SE/30

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2 minutes ago, PB145B said:

That’s wild! Did you ever make a fully-working Mac out of it?

Not yet, it's sitting under one of the benches with the rest of the compacts vying fo attention. Gotta find out if the neck board offset PCB adapter is technical possibility or just make the damn thing and try it. Comment in the thread for any more info to keep this one clear.

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Keen to see updates on this project! Did you manage to unfry the LCD controller or get a new one?

 

I was doing some googling to see if anybody had successfully managed to fit a color CRT inside of an SE/30 and found this thread, which is inspiring to say the least. I've managed to secure a 9" color SVGA CRT that may fit, if not with some modification to the back of the Mac case (which is fine, I've got empty spares). Now I just need a Radius Pivot IIsi card to get color out of the SE/30...

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On 7/2/2019 at 11:50 AM, DeChief said:

Did you manage to unfry the LCD controller or get a new one?

Not yet unfortunately - life has been too busy. However I did receive some more resin & rubber in the mail to make a new mold of the CRT screen - I'm going to try including the mounting tabs from the original CRT so that the LCD can easily and cleanly mounted inside the Mac.

 

I'll just need to find some time!

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On 7/3/2019 at 8:57 PM, ants said:

Not yet unfortunately - life has been too busy. However I did receive some more resin & rubber in the mail to make a new mold of the CRT screen - I'm going to try including the mounting tabs from the original CRT so that the LCD can easily and cleanly mounted inside the Mac.

 

I'll just need to find some time!

Hooray! If my incoming CRT doesn't properly fit the case without severe modifications, I'll be relying on one of your CRT castings :p best of luck.

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Looking to install an LED screen in my Mac SE/30 as well. Not sure about the casting but I'd certainly throw down some shekels for proper mounting hardware to avoid irreversible case modifications and glue!

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Hi all, thanks for your ongoing interest - however, I've decided not to continue with this project. As cool as it was to see a colour screen in an SE/30 - for me personally I feel the original B&W CRT is a big part of what makes these old machines so special. Staring at an LCD in a SE/30 just felt wrong, which is why I haven't been motivated to keep going with it.

 

I also own a Mac Colour Classic - it's Trinitron CRT is wonderful and this machine was always made for colour.

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Hi ants,

 

I'm in Melbourne and would be interested in continuing the project if you were willing to sell your LCD?

 

Thanks

 

JB

18 minutes ago, ants said:

Hi all, thanks for your ongoing interest - however, I've decided not to continue with this project. As cool as it was to see a colour screen in an SE/30 - for me personally I feel the original B&W CRT is a big part of what makes these old machines so special. Staring at an LCD in a SE/30 just felt wrong, which is why I haven't been motivated to keep going with it.

 

I also own a Mac Colour Classic - it's Trinitron CRT is wonderful and this machine was always made for colour.

 

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7 hours ago, Byrd said:

I'm in Melbourne and would be interested in continuing the project if you were willing to sell your LCD?

Sure - PM me and we can sort something out.

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I hope this project gets picked up by someone else, while I love the CRTs in these compacts, its also so cool to see one running a colour display and this is so much better than just sticking an iPad into a compact enclosure. Good luck to whoever continues this, I'm eager to see it progress! :rambo:

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Ah damn, sorry to hear you're not continuing :`(  it makes sense though, you're right about the black and white screen being part of its personality and appeal - but to me the SE/30 would be the ultimate compact mac if it had colour capabilities, so I'm going to press on! 8-) The CC and CC2 are awesome (especially Mystic modded), but there's something lacking in their general case design. I've always liked square edges I guess.

 

Should I make another thread or keep posting here? Either way, @ArmorAlley sent me a Lapis ColorServer PDS/30-17 and I just got it working with a driver from the net:

 

WR1DvKi.jpg

 

JpZILm1.jpg

 

Unfortunately it appears to be outputting a sync-on-green signal which isn't supported by any of my monitors, except for this huge old Hitachi LCD TV. I'm hoping the 9" colour SVGA CRT I've got coming (should be here before mid October) can support SOG but doubt it will. In which case I'll have to fork out some dough for a sync converter.

 

Another issue is the tube length. I'm 99% sure it won't fit inside the SE/30's case, but I have a spare semi-crappy SE bucket that I'm happy to cut into for the sake of science.

 

Failing that, I'd like to buy one of your resin casts @ants, or attempt to make my own if you've gotten rid of that pressure chamber you made.

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Can't you turn on B/W in the color settings? I'm more interested in the LCD aspect than anything else. Reduced weight and power consumption, more space for airflow, little-to-no need to hack apart the shell, and a nice crispy picture with no seizure-inducing flicker!

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On 9/16/2019 at 11:20 AM, kahlil88 said:

Can't you turn on B/W in the color settings? I'm more interested in the LCD aspect than anything else. Reduced weight and power consumption, more space for airflow, little-to-no need to hack apart the shell, and a nice crispy picture with no seizure-inducing flicker!

I really hate it when people replace CRTs with LCDs in situations where it's completely avoidable, especially in things like arcade machines. In this instance though, it would be in service of enabling a Mac to do something it normally can't, so I'm fine with it. That being said, the 9" CRT has priority and I've just purchased a cheapo sync converter that should do the trick.

Edited by DeChief

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6 hours ago, DeChief said:

I really hate it when people replace CRTs with LCDs in situations where it's completely avoidable, especially in things like arcade machines

I have a standup MAME cabinet that had a HUGE Sony TV as the arcade monitor.  I recently replaced it with a Dell LCD.  For games, the Sony TV was sort of ok, but for everything else, like when I actually had to boot into Windows, or using choosing games from the list, the TV was so blurry, it was a major PITA just to use the thing.  The LCD is so much more crisp, and I can run it at a higher resolution, which is helpful. 

 

And I sure won't miss pulling that super heavy TV in and out; I've moved that cabinet like 10 times, including to a third floor walkup in San Francisco. 

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42 minutes ago, pcamen said:

I have a standup MAME cabinet that had a HUGE Sony TV as the arcade monitor.  I recently replaced it with a Dell LCD.  For games, the Sony TV was sort of ok, but for everything else, like when I actually had to boot into Windows, or using choosing games from the list, the TV was so blurry, it was a major PITA just to use the thing.  The LCD is so much more crisp, and I can run it at a higher resolution, which is helpful. 

 

And I sure won't miss pulling that super heavy TV in and out; I've moved that cabinet like 10 times, including to a third floor walkup in San Francisco. 

A MAME cabinet is different, I'm talking candy and dedicated. If it just has a PC inside then the whole thing is a bit ridiculous to have in the first place, you may as well hook it up to your living room TV and make some joysticks. :p

Edited by DeChief

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Actually the MAME setup in an arcade cabinet makes a lot of sense.  It really feels like the real thing, albeit with 4,000 games.  My system has 4 position custom arcade controls, so it does a good job replicating the original experience. 

 

But I digress.  My point is that I think the choice is not necessarily black and white.  Given that I have 8 SE/30's, I'd probably opt to replace one of the CRTs with an LCD just to have something cool and different.  I think that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Just like we are all in this hobby for different reasons, we all have different level of appreciations for authenticity vs usability.  I have quite a few Apple and Radius CRTs and what not, but more and more I see them as just one more things to fix, so I am often using LCDs with my Macs. 

 

Just all a personal preference really. 

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11 hours ago, pcamen said:

Actually the MAME setup in an arcade cabinet makes a lot of sense.  It really feels like the real thing, albeit with 4,000 games.  My system has 4 position custom arcade controls, so it does a good job replicating the original experience. 

 

But I digress.  My point is that I think the choice is not necessarily black and white.  Given that I have 8 SE/30's, I'd probably opt to replace one of the CRTs with an LCD just to have something cool and different.  I think that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Just like we are all in this hobby for different reasons, we all have different level of appreciations for authenticity vs usability.  I have quite a few Apple and Radius CRTs and what not, but more and more I see them as just one more things to fix, so I am often using LCDs with my Macs. 

 

Just all a personal preference really. 

I owned a 2 player (sticks and 6 buttons on each side) 300~ game multicade cab at one point that even had a proper 21" CRT, but it never felt like a good purchase. It went into storage when I moved countries and I sold it the moment I moved back. IMO you lose something valuable when you start emulating things and using modern components in these situations, so I try to use as much old tech with old tech as I can - but yes, that might just be me! What you're doing is fine, it simply feels counter to the hobby as a whole for me, which I'm guessing is because I'm likely younger than the majority of users here. :p

 

For instance, I'm getting rid of my SCSI2SD after getting a good deal on one of those Adtron SDDS SCSI-PCMCIA devices since it works flawlessly with a PCMCIA-CF adapter in it, all of which is old technology and essentially of the same era as the machines I use it with. I found a cheap external SyQuest EZ135 SCSI drive and sold the SyQuest itself just to use the enclosure for the Adtron, it's really convenient for vintage Macs since I can just pre-load a bunch of CF cards with different operating systems - turns out Yahoo Auctions has great deals on used generic 256 - 500MB CF cards so I've stocked up and am now prepared for any Mac I buy in future.

 

Getting semi-back on topic, I very much dislike using LCDs with old systems. There was a noticeable amount of input lag when I was testing the Lapis ColorServer, moving the mouse felt like wading through molasses on the 3 LCDs I used for testing compared to the SE/30's internal CRT. I'm not sure how different this would be compared to the LCD that ants was using, but either way, CRT still takes priority. I do have a black and white Radius Pivot SE/30 card if you'd like to swap one of your SE/30's screens to an LCD.

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Here is my arcade machine for reference.  I still need to make a black "mask" such that only the active part of the LCD shows and the bezel is hidden.  The LCD sits behind a piece of slightly smokey plexiglass. 

 

IMG_9134.thumb.jpeg.db8524977b4bf74b55aa589c79b12f08.jpeg

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