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ants

Fun with colour on my SE/30

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ants, if you ever want to make a negative mould, I have access to a reasonably large vacuum press (and nearby oven) to form perspex - I'm in Melbourne

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On 5/24/2019 at 4:41 AM, ants said:

136898258_IMG_20190524_1818542.thumb.jpg.23d8ad4119f600ff05400af80234e8d3.jpg

 

But perhaps it was a blessing in disguise, because as you can see the glass is very dark, thick and has a stipple texture on the inside. It would have led to poor clarity from the LCD.

Love it, that's great info for my projection screen project

 

On 5/24/2019 at 4:41 AM, ants said:

But it gave me an idea - using my remaining CRT I made a silicone mould of the convex surface and then made a cast using clear polyurethane resin:

 

127888300_IMG_20190524_1818342-3024x2268.thumb.jpg.ae7485deafaff30b1f3945cdd3cb6a61.jpg

 

Truth be told, it was an immense amount of work to achieve this result. I had multiple failed attempts and even made my own pressure chamber so that the resin would be free from air bubbles!

Very nice work, ants. looks fabulous. From your description of the process it sounds like you've made a plano-convex lens? I've always wondered about refractive index complications. How does it look when sitting on the LCD, no distortion? Pic looks like you've got a little bit of magnification of your index fingertip? Do the edges of the LCD look nice and straight or is there a tad of either barrel or pincushion distortion?

 

Can't wait to see the final assembly, fabulous! :approve:

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Here is the only photo I took before I accidentally fried the LCD controller board... a fleeting moment of glory:

 

IMG_20190525_170759.thumb.jpg.aac5ea667466c4b0426c9f0fa4319cff.jpg

 

It looked great - zero distortion and the curved resin panel fits the Mac perfectly.

 

I accidentally reversed the polarity of the 12v power to the LCD controller - smoke ensued! I hope it's just a fuse as I really can't spend any more money on this project!

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Yes, this is very cool.  The CRTs for these old machines will run out eventually.   With luck, there will always be displays of the needed size capable of 640 X 480.   

 

Any chance of adding mounting attachments to the sides of mold?  I can't remember how the screen is attached, but it would be nice to be able to attach the molded polyurethane in the same way.

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That’s absolutely stunning! If the total cost is reasonable, I might consider doing this to one of my SE/30s. I’m assuming the most expensive part would be a nice video card capable of 640 X 480 color, which might be prohibitive for me depending on how much those run. I love this stuff, but I’ve got my limits when it comes to what I’ll pay for a single expansion board. I’ll save the crazy money for my future Lisa 2 purchase!

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You should make copies of the silicone mold for sale. I know a bunch of people would snap them up and help you finance this thing.

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This looks fantastic @ants - you're doing an amazing job with your SE/30 projects, its very inspiring! Would love to get my hands on a curved resin screen and try this myself :)

 

@PB145B as far as video cards, since the controller board supports 66Hz, your best bet would be a Radius IIsi Color Pivot which were available in decent quantities until relatively recently. Several people here have probably stocked up on a few. Some assembly required though - they're a touch too long for the case so you need to Dremel them (!) or come up with an alternative mounting, such as a PDS extension cable, or @BadGoldEagle's vertical mount hack because it doesn't fit. You also need to make a VGA cable.

 

 

Edited by nickpunt

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Thanks all for the encouraging words. I was going to pack it all in after frying my LCD controller - but you've motivated me to keep on trying.

 

@Byrd thanks for the offer. I'm pretty happy with the results using liquid silicone rubber, but I'll keep it in mind cheers.

 

@trag I actually included the mounting brackets from the original CRT in the mould - see below. The problem was that they were too shallow and in the resulting cast they were too flimsy so I had to remove them. But I have an idea how to fix this next time I make a mould. Currently the resin panel is hot glued into the back of the Mac case - it's horrible so including the mounting tabs would be ideal.

 

@nickpunt @LaPorta time permitting I'd like to make a few more resin panels for the 68kmla community. Making the pressure chamber for setting the resin free of air bubbles was a big job so it would be good to get some more use out of it.

 

IMG_20190407_073850.thumb.jpg.bf14695215f1abc0414427e9c9e6f689.jpg

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14 hours ago, nickpunt said:

 

@PB145B as far as video cards, since the controller board supports 66Hz, your best bet would be a Radius IIsi Color Pivot which were available in decent quantities until relatively recently. Several people here have probably stocked up on a few. Some assembly required though - they're a touch too long for the case so you need to Dremel them (!) or come up with an alternative mounting, such as a PDS extension cable, or @BadGoldEagle's vertical mount hack because it doesn't fit. You also need to make a VGA cable.

Sweet! If they were going for that cheap recently, then I’m sure it shouldn’t be too bad to find one. Dremeling the video card sounds like fun as well :) 

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Congrat !! Very cool resin screen.

I tried the exact same thing some time ago, but i couldn't get the resin to stay clear .

I think it was the resin i used (too old). I still have the silicon mold though.

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On 3/6/2019 at 3:45 PM, ants said:

how to change the "LVDS mapping" via a hidden menu in the on screen display

 

Ooh.  What else can you change in this hidden menu?

A board that can be arbitrarily reconfigured to run oddball displays would be hugely useful to me.

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On 3/6/2019 at 4:07 PM, nickpunt said:

I was looking at doing this with Adafruit's 9.7" display (basically the iPad Retina display), since 2048x1536 would be high enough res to be able to upsample a few different resolutions without bad artifacts. But, that relies a lot on a magical third board that could do analog->DisplayPort

 

The earlier iPad displays do 1024x768 (XGA), which is exactly pixel-double the old Mac 512x342, and will work off cheap ebay driver boards.  And the iPad Mini version, at 7.9" diagonal, would fit neatly in the bezel.  You can pick up a kit with the driver board and panel for not too many dollars.

10.4" and smaller XGA LCDs were also used in a few laptops, Panasonic Toughbooks for example.

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On 3/7/2019 at 5:54 PM, ArmorAlley said:

Would the monitor from a Colour Classic fit and work in an SE/30?


It'll fit the front bezel, but the neck is a couple of inches too long for the case and would stick out the back.

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36 minutes ago, Bunsen said:

It'll fit the front bezel, but the neck is a couple of inches too long for the case and would stick out the back.

I reckoned that had it been even halfway feasible, it would have been done by now. And since I've read nothing about it, it mustn't be feasible. But the two monitors don't look all that different side by side. Of course, I hadn't considered depth at all.

Thanks for this.

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1 hour ago, Bunsen said:


It'll fit the front bezel, but the neck is a couple of inches too long for the case and would stick out the back.

I don’t think it would fit, because the SE/30 display is 9” and the Color Classic display is 10”.

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 Other than the neck board protrusion, a 10" display will definitely fit inside a compact Mac case, did it 15 years ago and again with another CRT fairly recently.

 

CPUcavern.JPG

compact-mac-w10-color-crt-inside-a-standard-carryall

 

Stumbling block is finding out if a PCB for neck board/nipple offset as above will work or not. If so, hiding the assembly within the confines of a Jasmine BackPac reproduction becomes possible.

 

JasmineBackPac-MW8811p198.JPG

 

But that's a neither here nor there tangent ATM as it's in the "because it's impossible, just gotta do it!" category with no practical application other than being another "yes I can because I cheat!" kinda hack. Anybody else would be crazy to follow that lead. ant's project addresses an issue that will become necessary over the long term as the CRT replacements, much less Color CRT donors are are relentlessly compressed into unobtanium alloys.

 

What I'm really curious about it would be the controller that vented its magic smoke, sorry to hear about that.

@ants got linkage on that controller board? Mfr site/support docs/manual?

 

 

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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6 hours ago, Bunsen said:

 

Ooh.  What else can you change in this hidden menu?

A board that can be arbitrarily reconfigured to run oddball displays would be hugely useful to me.

Have you seen the controllers like this one that can be reconfigured for numerous displays (including 5V vs 3.3v) through the use of jumpers?

23 hours ago, ants said:

Thanks all for the encouraging words. I was going to pack it all in after frying my LCD controller - but you've motivated me to keep on trying.

I'm no expert, but I *think* you can get away with a cheap, generic LVDS controller - no need to spend a lot of money on one tied to your specific monitor. The trouble is tracking down such a controller. According to panelook, this is a 640x480 6/8 bit 3.3v monitor. That would at first glance seem to be compatible with the <$6 VGA controller linked above, but for some reason that controller indicates that it can drive a 640x480 dual channel LVDS monitor, and yours is single channel. OTOH, people have apparently found those charts to be wrong before - and it seems odd that 640x480 would be drive by dual channel LVDS rather than single. It remains to be seen whether or not that controller could use the 65Hz sync, even if it were compatible with your display. However, if it could sync to 65Hz - and maybe other frequencies - that knowledge could be invaluable in getting oddball outputs from early video cards running

 

Edit: I'm very curious to know everything about the controller board you were using, especially the main controller chip. 

HTB1vRhCXnjxK1Rjy0Fnq6yBaFXaF.jpg

Edited by Michael_b

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8 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

Other than the neck board protrusion, a 10" display will definitely fit inside a compact Mac case, did it 15 years ago and again with another CRT fairly recently.

 

I stand corrected then! 

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 Not corrected exactly, a 10" CRT will just barely fit inside a compact Mac case with an irrational level of effort. Notice that the top retaining screws for the bucket and tube to interface them needs to be eliminated. threaded rod replaces the omitted Torx Screws to clamp the band of the CRT down and nuts snug the back edge of the band up tight to the modified front bezel to keep it in place. I clipped the ears of this one. 15 years ago I left the lugs intact (or mostly so?) and slotted the sides of the case so it was held in position in the bucket using no fasteners at all

 

CPUcavern.JPG

 

Not practical by any stretch of the imagination  .  .  .  but impossible to resist.

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7 hours ago, Michael_b said:

Edit: I'm very curious to know everything about the controller board you were using, especially the main controller chip. 

+1 Just finding a few that sync to 65/66MHz inputs will be an awesome achievement.

 

Sticking point in the ointment, The SE/30 "screen" has been reported to comes up as the main/boot display even without the Video ROM in place, but the pic in the OP doesn't appear bear this? out. @ants did you get the menu bar moved over onto the panel via the Video Control Panel or did the reported problems not crop up at all? Have you got a Phantom 512x384 patch of virtual desktop out there waiting to devour your cursor?

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7 hours ago, Michael_b said:

Have you seen the controllers like this one that can be reconfigured for numerous displays (including 5V vs 3.3v) through the use of jumpers?


:eek:

No, no I had not.  I've never seen any driver board that cheap, let alone a configurable one.

Unfortunately it appears to only support a number of common (ie, modern) resolutions.  I'm looking for something I can assign arbitrary resolutions and scan rates, and other timing details.

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