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Trash80toHP_Mini

Strange PowerBook G3 Configs: A tale of two PDQs

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Neither of mine fit the mold:

 

Just got a second one today for the BookENDZ Dock bundled with it to pair the dock with my first WSII. Strangely enough, this one's incompatible with the dock it came with! :lol: No "S-Video" port = no docking.

 

PDQ

300MHz model, so the port should be there?

Machine ID 312

"Maxed" RAM at 192MB

6GB HDD for whatever reason?

 

Wallstreet-PDQ-System_Configs.thumb.JPG.26395c897d6ee2e4df84997aaa3aac4f.JPG

 

PDQuicker, I mentioned this one way back when as having delusions of 333MHz Lombardness.

333MHz Processor, I've never seen, nor heard of such a thing in a PDQ?

Machine ID 312

"Stuffed" RAM at 384MB

4GB HDD for whatever reason?

 

PDQuicker does have the "S-Video" Port, but it's DIN7. That piqued my interest when I took a look at the Dock that didn't fit. It has a DIN7 Male and breaks the connections out to DIN4 S-Video and Composite Video ports. I've never heard, nor seen mention of that either?

 

Is this merely a case of oddball build to order configurations in terms of HDD capacities and lack of the S-Video Port on a high end model? There's something about S-Video being optional on the Wallstreet somewhere. everymac?

 

What's the story with a 333MHz PDQ? Might it be overclocked?

 

 

 

edit: forgot to mention, neither 'Book gives me the option to scale the display? ATY, 264LT-G Rev.128 in both. Am I missing something? I figured I had to choose "All" in the Monitors CP. No joy, they're stuck at "Recommended" and 1024x767?

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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Interesting. The primary reason for the PDQ was because there was such a dizzying array of options for the original WallStreet that it was causing supply and potentially compatibility problems (there's another matrix in the service manual about what modules work with what computers) so they put a stop to most of the options, simplifying with 66MHz buses and 14.1" screens across the line. It's kind of a shame as the 83MHz variants were pretty neat and the 13.3" variants were a little thinner and lighter than the 14.1" screens. I have one of the early, basic WallStreets somewhere with the 12.1" STN and cacheless 233MHz processor.

 

Anyway it's entirely possible your first PDQ may have been modified and/or repaired at some point with a different processor card than originally equipped. Is the original spec listed on the bottom of the machine or does it just say "PowerBook G3 Series"? If it's the latter there's no way to tell for sure how it was originally configured unless you can find Apple records that list detailed configs with serial numbers. I don't think you could BTO an SVideo-less 300MHz model but maybe it was a one-off special or something.

 

As for the second, there was never an official 333MHz version but you may have gotten lucky and received a preproduction sample. More likely, however, is an overclock: the PLL is set with a series of resistors, just like other machines of the era, so it's a trivial procedure. To find out for sure you can remove the processor card and examine the PLL resistors, or the original speed may be listed on the card's bar code label, or you can pop the processor's heat disc thing off and read the code on the chip. It's kind of tricky to get that disc back in place so be careful if you do that.

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Trickiness is exactly why I haven't bothered to look. It's most likely a PLL hack from the standard 4.5x to 5x the 66MHz Clock. IIRC it might have come with my tricked out PISMO/500? That guy knew what he was up to! Dunno, I got two batches of 'Books from a couple of folks looking for good homes for their old daily drivers on craigslist. I know I've got a Partsmo and I think I've got another WS I or II for parts as well. Got the second batch for the Pismo BookENDZ dock included in the bundle.

 

I'm beginning to wonder about ProcSwaps for these CPU boards? Pismo's a piece of cake I hear, but the Wallstreet/PDQ G4 Upgrade is scarce as unicorn scat.

 

I wonder if you could swap an 83MHz clock into a "standardized" 66MHz bus PDQ? If the system was chipped to 83MHz, the PLL would be hacked to a 4x multiplier for 333MHz. Maybe I'll have to take a peek in there after all. The new PDQ may have become a lab rat during its first 12 hours in my grubby little paws. [}:)]

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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I have quit a few Wallstreets and they are nice and easy to work on. The 292 83FSB model is faster then the 300 66mhz FSB one. I have the Bookendz but never really use it. You can get ZIP drives for the bay. The dual scan 12" screen kind of sucks.

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16 minutes ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

I wonder if you could swap an 83MHz clock into a "standardized" 66MHz bus PDQ? If the system was chipped to 83MHz, the PLL would be hacked to a 4x multiplier for 333MHz. Maybe I'll have to take a peek in there after all. The new PDQ may have become a lab rat during its first 12 hours in my grubby little paws. [}:)]

The 66 or 83MHz speeds pertain only to the processor bus and main memory and so is restricted to the processor card itself; the rest of the system runs at 33MHz PCI speeds. Cards are usually interchangeable but you may have problems with certain versions of logic board. As I mentioned there's a compatibility matrix in the service manual about what cards work with what computers.

 

I haven't seen any downclocked versions of the 83MHz MPC106 used in any of the 66MHz varieties, unlike in the beige G3s, so it's unlikely you could get a stable overclock of the system bus on one of the 66MHz variants.

 

I don't know why no upgrades ever used the 83MHz MPC106 or even the 100MHz MPC107. A 100MHz WallStreet would have been my preference over a Pismo,

 

16 minutes ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

I got my money's worth and then some. If a bit ugly, it booted right up into 9.2 and the Dock looks to be in great shape. Still untested, but it's just connectors and wiring held together by intact plastics.

That soft plastic center is nice but it's almost always ruined on machines of this age. I usually peel off the center pieces (they're coated aluminum, stuck on with reusable adhesive that releases with mild heat and some pulling), scrub off the soft black stuff, hit the metal with coarse sandpaper for a brushed look, and then reapply them. I posted a thread here nearly 10 years ago about doing this and it still looks really good. Get a scratch on the metal? Go get the sandpaper and take it out. The metal doesn't tarnish under normal use, though if you were in a filthy and/or wet environment you may notice some persistent grime.

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Yep doing the bare metal mod was the first thing I thought of when it arrived. I remember seeing that on 'fritter back in the day, but I have a thing for Beaters, computers AND cars.

 

There would have to be a crystal for the 83MHz FSB unless it's a multiple of the 33MHz I/O subsystem clock which makes a bit more sense. Either way it ought be doable, even if the multiplier logic is inside a big ASIC that would need to be transplanted. That one is a WAG based upon the way the clock multiplier is implemented on the Performer in a GAL. The overall architecture of the 66/83 is the same, the tweak ought not to be a impossible, if non-trivial. RAM would definitely need to be faster on the 83MHz boards.

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According to the hardware spec, the MPC106 takes the PCI bus clock as its base SYSCLK and then runs the processor bus at a derivative of that speed. So the WallStreet likely uses a 33MHz crystal for the base PCI bus and then is multiplied to 66 or 83MHz for the processor bus.

 

The 100MHz MPC106 is apparently a late revision (v5 or later) that isn't covered by the documentation that I've seen available on the internet. It seems the MPC107 (and its successor, the Tsi107) is different architecturally and is not pin compatible with the MPC106 so there's no simply swapping on a 107. There's a seller on eBay right now with some of the 83MHz 106 parts though if someone wanted to upgrade a WS processor card or maybe an early iMac.

Maybe one day I'll get lucky and find a 100MHz 106 available. I have a few questionable B&W G3 boards that I could harvest one from, but then I'd need a reballing kit and preferably also the correct documentation to determine what changes, if any, were made to the clocking circuits. I assume sticking a 66/100MHz part on a board clocked to 33/66 would work at the lower speeds so long as none of the clocking specs changed, and then I could clock the processor bus to 100MHz from there.

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I exhumed the DOA Wallstreet and it has the S-Video option so I can probably cannibalize it to reconfigure the oddball WS so it's compatible with the BookEndz dock that was bundled with it. [:)]

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Gave the DOA unit a shot at making a peep at power on, nada, but realized just how nice the case of this DOA, shattered LCD WS is. This is gonna be some fun, building a clean PDQ out of a Beater and a Deader.  [:P]

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