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LaPorta

Insane SCSI to FW prices

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Just out of curiosity, checked for SCSI to FW converters on eBay and day prices in the $350 range...what gives? They can’t be that rare!

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1 hour ago, LaPorta said:

Just out of curiosity, checked for SCSI to FW converters on eBay and day prices in the $350 range...what gives? They can’t be that rare!

Probably the same reason SCSI to USB is 100+ dollars........ It’s called price-gouging. Make a specialty item in China for $3.00 and sell it $350. Stupid, isn’t it?

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Not the case at all:

 

1 - Specialty items linking obsolete/obsolescent interfaces for an incredibly limited market = low demand

2 - You're dismissing R&D cost amortization over production of a limited supply to meet that demand.

- - - - R&D and inventory/distribution trump low, but much more significant cost of doing a low production run.

3 - RetroComputing is an all but insignificant portion of the market for such things, think video etc. still limited demand.

 

For something like SCSI2SD, RetroComputing is a small, but significant percentage of demand. (a fact documented in another thread)

Demand from a very large installed base of Keyboards/other music related gear along with industrial equipment still in productive use saddled with FDD and SCSI interfaces would be what keeps products like SCSI2SD affordable.

 

Basically, you're lucky to have these two adapters for those interfaces available at any price.

 

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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I've already got a SCSI to FW converter from way back when...I just didn't know it was that valuable. I simply chalked it up to bloat. For instance, people here sell things for reasonable prices. Similarly, a separate hobby of mine (I own a pinball machine), many times has people trying to sell a machine on eBay for $3k, while people in the know in a community will gladly sell/buy it for $1500. I figured similar forces were at work here.

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7 minutes ago, LaPorta said:

I've already got a SCSI to FW converter from way back when...I just didn't know it was that valuable.

It's only that "valuable" if they sell regularly at those prices. Similar thing in my camera/lens collection. Asking prices for "buy it now" aren't real, they're highball starting points for haggling in private messaging and the actual sale price is never documented.

 

Ebay should report on all sale prices or at the very least charge for repeated listings of like or similar items by a seller at absurd price levels as an in for haggling on the sly. Curbing such practices should be a priority.

 

Some sellers start out high and reduce pricing until an item sells. Price for the LC version of the Radius pivot card appears to have been halved not long after the initial listing.

 

In the meantime, some of this stuff is scarce as hens teeth and will never be available new at any low price point, much less what folks around here insist upon thinking of as "market pricing."

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I think mine is a Ratoc branded one, local recycler tossed it and I grabbed it from the trash pile (he kept the power adapter). Never actually found a need for it, my firewire notebook card is more useful.

 

 

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I was going to disassemble one and pop it into a case w/SCSI2SD. Bam: dual interface drive that can be read by a classic and modern Mac.

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3 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

It's only that "valuable" if they sell regularly at those prices. Similar thing in my camera/lens collection. Asking prices for "buy it now" aren't real, they're highball starting points for haggling in private messaging and the actual sale price is never documented.

 

Ebay should report on all sale prices or at the very least charge for repeated listings of like or similar items by a seller at absurd price levels as an in for haggling on the sly. Curbing such practices should be a priority.

 

Some sellers start out high and reduce pricing until an item sells. Price for the LC version of the Radius pivot card appears to have been halved not long after the initial listing.

 

In the meantime, some of this stuff is scarce as hens teeth and will never be available new at any low price point, much less what folks around here insist upon thinking of as "market pricing."

I was originally going to get a IIGS SCSI card until I saw every single one on eBay was 300 dollars...

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The high speed Apple is more expensive then the Apple Rev C (you need the C ROM for the IIgs). Last I looked years ago the cheap Apple SCSI card was $100 ish, think I paid $50 and thought it was expensive a decade ago.

 

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6 hours ago, PB145B said:

Probably the same reason SCSI to USB is 100+ dollars........ I

Good grief, you're right! I had no idea.

I found an Entegra, I think, adapter in a box of my cables a while back and thought "I'll never need this."

(Of course I'd need drivers that are probably OS9/XP only.)

I guess I should hang on to it.

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6 minutes ago, MOS8_030 said:

(Of course I'd need drivers that are probably OS9/XP only.)

Not necessarily. The FW to SCSI converter I have requires nothing. In fact, it is two-way. You can have FW drives (small enough) show up on a classic Mac. Heck, I once got a Mac Classic's internal HD to show up on my iMac!

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1 hour ago, Unknown_K said:

The high speed Apple is more expensive then the Apple Rev C (you need the C ROM for the IIgs). Last I looked years ago the cheap Apple SCSI card was $100 ish, think I paid $50 and thought it was expensive a decade ago.

 

All the ones I saw were just sold as "Apple II SCSI Card" with 1988 ROM dates, aside from a RAMFast card selling for an incredible 500 dollars.

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IIgs upgrade prices are nuts. The thing is I don't think very many of the IIgs produced were upgraded at all before being recycled. I am sure a few at every school had a SCSI card and HD for use as a server to the other stock systems.

 

 

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Correct me if I am wrong but the SCSI to FW converters only need an external power supply if the drives you connect to them are going to be powered from the cable?

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1 hour ago, Unknown_K said:

IIgs upgrade prices are nuts. The thing is I don't think very many of the IIgs produced were upgraded at all before being recycled. I am sure a few at every school had a SCSI card and HD for use as a server to the other stock systems.

 

 

I used to think Amiga stuff was insane but you can actually get lower-end Amiga accelerators for just under $200...

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There are more Amiga "users" who will pay for new boards to be made so economies of scales make boards cheaper. Plus most of the effort is for A500 and A1200's that have cheap edge connectors for CPU upgrades and not full sized cards with tricky BIOS like other systems.

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I'm likely to agree that it's not gouging for no good reason. As far as I happen to know these devices haven't been manufactured in a few years, so it's not exactly as if someone's buying parts for $3 or even $30 and then marking up the price 10 or 100x.

 

These devices were manufactured for a couple years back when it made more sense to buy a Firewire adapter for your Jaz drive than to buy a new Jaz drive (And, thinking about it: IIRC the Jaz drive only ever really shipped in SCSI versions) or to move to a new type of storage/transfer cartridge altogether.

 

Or, if you had a bunch of SCSI peripherals that cost more than storage peripherals tended to do (especially once people started to move to USB/Firewire external disks rather than cartridge systems and didn't want a multi-machine workflow (which I tend to advocate for these days, because often the machine best equipped to acquire an image or a video isn't necessarily the best one you have to edit the content or ultimately transfer it to the Internet, but that's a much newer concern, really.

 

At this point, in some circumstances, it might be easier to think about just having, say, a G3 or G4 tower equipped with both SCSI and USB/FW to use with peripherals like these.

(Except the SCSI2SD, explanation below)

On 10/4/2018 at 1:04 PM, LaPorta said:

Bam: dual interface drive that can be read by a classic and modern Mac

 

Depending on how your SCSI2SD is positioned physically, you should be able to take the card out and put it in an SD card reader for use on a more modern system. I believe you can also (on the v6) mount the card over Micro USB. I wouldn't waste a scsi/fw or scsi/usb adapter on that.

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I certainly didn’t think it was gouging, just amazed that there is that much of a market. For instance, there could be only two of something left, but if no one cares or wants it, it isn’t going to command a very high price. So, there must be some demand.

 

As for your SCSI/FW comment, I’ve already got that covered: PowerTower Pro with FW PCI card (which only cost $10). Swiss Army knife!

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17 minutes ago, Cory5412 said:

I'm likely to agree that it's not gouging for no good reason. As far as I happen to know these devices haven't been manufactured in a few years, so it's not exactly as if someone's buying parts for $3 or even $30 and then marking up the price 10 or 100x.

 

There’s a *lot* of them on eBay from China (If I remember correctly) so it kinda looked as if they were still being made, but maybe not.

 

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On 10/4/2018 at 4:40 PM, Unknown_K said:

I am sure a few at every school had a SCSI card and HD for use as a server to the other stock systems.

I don't think Apple had an Appleshare server that was hosted on a IIgs, at least one that supported netboot; so far as I know that required a Mac server. So it's not necessarily a given that *any* IIgs at a given school would have a SCSI card.

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Correct. SCSI would have been for if you wanted to use peripherals directly on a IIgs. As far as I know, there was never any server software for IIgs, that was always done on Macs or with other purpose-built hardware.

 

5 hours ago, PB145B said:

There’s a *lot* of them on eBay from China (If I remember correctly) so it kinda looked as if they were still being made, but maybe not.

I just searched on eBay and got thirteen hits.

 

The only brand name I don't recognize from around 1999-2004 is Ratoc. I looked at their web site and they appear not to be building a SCSI to Firewire or USB adapter at the moment, so I imagine what happened is Ratoc picked up the slack on these adapters a few years after OrangeMicro (belkin) and Iomega gave up on those adapters, and then stopped probably just a few years later.

 

My guess is either the same 13 items are just sitting there and the demand isn't actually that great, or this market is a lot like the market for DEC/Compaq/HP Alpha-based workstations and servers (especially anything that can run VMS): Not great, but extremely urgent and not particular cost-sensitive when it comes up (which means that machines around equivalent to your every-day G4 go for between one and three thousand dollars.)

 

One of the adapters mentioned a particular scanner. If that's a crazy high end drum scanner or something of the like, some shops are going to find more economy or utility in buying a $400 adapter to use with a modern (or even "modern") computer than bothering to mess with 20+ year-old computers and the attendant hassle of getting (legal) software and then, further, file transfer.

 

Relative to our position (here on the forum) where we already have most or all of the needed bits and processes down.

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On 10/4/2018 at 5:08 PM, itsvince725 said:

I was originally going to get a IIGS SCSI card until I saw every single one on eBay was 300 dollars...

Would that be for storage or peripherals? I peeked out on the web and found what seems to be a freeware IDE interface developed and well (as far as I can tell) documented for others to play with by a guy wh seems to have done it for the heck of it.

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3 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

Would that be for storage or peripherals? I peeked out on the web and found what seems to be a freeware IDE interface developed and well (as far as I can tell) documented for others to play with by a guy wh seems to have done it for the heck of it.

Storage, I hardly even have any SCSI peripherals sadly.

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15 hours ago, Cory5412 said:

I just searched on eBay and got thirteen hits.

 

Ah, okay. I was thinking there was more than that for some reason (maybe there was last I checked).

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