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Byrd

Ricoh chipset PCI to PCMCIA adapter card - possible?

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trag, I think the third slot on your C600 riser may be C1. Took a couple of interesting screen shots:

 

TAM-SlotMap.jpg.16b7478e8d663d0c25716398290cb531.jpg

 

Full loadout on a Gazelle board shows PseudoSlot Video as F1, PCI cards in slots A1 and B1 with the CS2/NIC at slot E1.

 

TAM-Slot-C1.jpg.bad3e3524cd278b5dcaa3c68ae06c68c.jpg

 

TattleTech has both Alchemy and Gazelle reporting Slot C1 as a possibility. Riser slot and CS2 were empty. That probably won't change with hardware state.

 

PCI-INT-Reader.JPG.a69dab03d0f4c4cacd74eaffab1a6bcc.JPG

 

Built my INT signal slot snooper kluge with the resistors  .  .  .  dunno, maybe it'll work? Maybe we'll see tomorrow. :blink:

 

 

 

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Back to TAM networking basics:

 

First off, did Apple design the TAM so that a Sonnet Crescendo L2 that had been available for 6360/6400 would fit within the confines of the standard back or did they opt for a "profile under function" approach, leaving only enough room for their Cache Card and low profile memory?

 

Byrd, could you check something out for me? I need to know how much clearance there is between the top of the PCI slot connector and the standard back? Is it as least the height of the Sonnet L2 accelerator cards? If you could make up tall mockups with thin cardboard of a CS2 NIC or Modem "PCB" it would be a big help. Cut it back at the ends so it will fit straight down into the slot and the use a pencil to run the outline of the case curve to model a max height CS2 card. Do the same with the PCI Riser to show the maximum for factor for a standard back RA "PCI riser."

 

If anyone who could do this for me it would be a big help. Scanning the two cutouts along with a metric ruler would be the point, that way I've got something to mess around with.

 

Another way of looking at it:

EvilCapitalist, I wasn't sure about the labeling on your comparison pic. It seems like the front/back pics you posted are of the TAM riser?

 

20180709_202457.jpg

 

Can the board be extended to left or right? Will your 5500 riser fit within the Standard TAM Back? 

 

We've been ignoring the vacant cubic between PCI and CS2 connectors. My single slot 1U RA Riser's only about 19mm higher than the top of the connector and could be lowered to 5500 height if absolutely necessary. The PCI connector could be desoldered and replaced with Rows of headers for plugging in a "PCI daughtercard" to fit within the TAM's available PCI to CS2 cubic.

 

Dunno about the TI PCI to PCIe bridge chip, but there's another that's compatible/transparent to the original PCI spec. intended for legacy equipment. If we can find a Mini-PCIe WiFi card with a chipset that's compatible with OS9 drivers we could be in business. It's nothing at all like something I could do, but it's looking more and more like the puzzle parts  seem to be coming together.

 

image.png

 

 

The really nice thing about using that cubic would be the possibility of setting the Mini-PCIe NIC up to fit in that cubic allows for the headers to fit on the available area between top of the mobo slot and the thruholes of the Fat Back PCI riser's connector. If the PCIe NIC/bridge is set up at the CS2 NIC Slot E1 location or the phantom Slot C1 location we'd be in TAM PCI Slot heaven. A customized Fat Back riser would have the usual Slot A1 connector and a connector for Slot B1 putting a PCI card in the cubic intended for the lowly 10bT CS2 NIC.

 

Enough for the musings and back to the tangent at hand:

 

Likely no time to test the LED kluge today, so info would be appreciated: oes anyone know if a logical high signal is adequate to power an LED so it's enough to be visible in a darkened room? If not I guess I can meter the resistor legs for high/low or do I need to find and re-learn how to use my ancient logic probe?  Board's set up for doing that or adding a couple of header rows on the other end of the board for such testing or amplification of the logical high to LED driving level.

 

edit: might as well ask up front in case I need one, anybody have a suggestion for a DIP IC amplifier that will drive four logical high inputs to LED power level outputs? Resistor and capacitor specs to drive such a circuit from an FDD Molex takeoff would be much appreciated. I have plenty of room on my snooper board for such shenanigans and almost no design experience for this. HELP!!!!!!!!!!

 

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini
the usual

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One more then off to work:

 

DwuHAKwoyWlWITS2.huge

 

With a customized twin slot PCI Riser in place of the CS2 NIC/Riser, about how "tall" could a low profile PCI card be while still fitting within the sloped Fat Back's cubic? KISS compliant approach would be a modded 6500 type riser. Gigabit NIC and Vonets WiFi. With low component height on the lower card in Slot B1, slot to slot distance might be reduced considerably.

 

Dunno, just wondering about it.

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Curioser and curiouser. Slot A1 (lower connector) of the 6500 riser works in slots A1, B1 And C1 in my BG3DT testbed, It takes on the Slot ID of whichever host slot in which it's installed. Video card in upper Slot B1 of the 6500 riser boots with proper display up to the point of freezup after the first extension loads. With Extensions Manager activated with the spacebar the control panel loads, but ADB ceases to function. Removed the EM control panel and the system freezes up at about the same point. Holding the spacebar dow fails to load the System with extensions off, somewhere right before that ADB gets poleaxed and the first extion loads and freezup occurs..

 

 

Again, it's amazing to me that the VidCard's working fine off drivers in ROM When installed in 6500 riser Slot B1 in whatever host slot I try, but having it chime in at some nebulous Slot ID (WAG) borks the boot process.

 

I'm using a 1U single slot RA riser to tip it over to the right so the cards are upright. With the right side panel removed, the kluge sticks out the side of the plexi case.

 

I'll  keep hacking away at the problem from the standpoint of the nubbin card's jumpered signals for the heck of it, but since the physical slots don't exist in the TAM/Gazelle/Alchemy machines, I think I'm at pretty much of a dead end with this riser. I was hoping that the 6500 riser inserted in slot A1 of the G3 board it's B1 implementation in the top slot might work. Not the case.

 

It's time to look into snagging a three slot riser without the jumper boards. Guessing they're intended to install in the most inboard, Slot A1 to save space and will be set up to automagically splay Slot A1 out to Slots B1 and C1. With some luck it will "just work" to implement the architecture's ephemeral Slot C1, may be worth trying?

 

BTW, the slot snooper's LEDs work so I got polarity of the basic circuit right, but I'll need to try it with a single jumper/LED readout at a time. Getting STRANGE results that make me think the circuit needs diodes for isolation downstream from the LEDs. Getting all VERY bright in A1 of the 6500 riser, but all VERY dim in any other slot, including Slot A1 of the Beige. Most strange. :blink:

 

 

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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On 7/13/2018 at 11:46 AM, trag said:

I think it's been too long since I looked at the PCI  spec.   :-)

LOL! Never thought I'd be looking at DCaDftPMF or the PCI spec, but there it is!

On 7/13/2018 at 11:46 AM, trag said:

As long as all the signals needed for a PCI slot are present, it should be trivial.  Might check that REQ, GNT, are unique to each slot on the riser card.   And IDSEL?  I can't remember if that's a per slot or a bus signal.

They all must be unique to each slot. If I can get my slot snooper to tell me how to set up INTA-D for CS2's Slot E1 we might try something very interesting.

 

Static signals not found on CS2 pinout (they'd be implemented on the logic board as CS2 is a subset of the PCI spec?)

INTA = header pin 1

INTC = header pin 2

INTB = header pin 3

INTD = header pin 4

 

Active signals on CS2 that match the other four lines required to be jumpered from the nubbin cards to my 3 slot riser:

CS2 pin 101 - CLK = header pin 6

CS2 pin   92 - GNT = header pin 8

CS2 pin   91 - REQ = header pin 9

CS2 pin   78 - IDSEL = header pin 10

 

I'm guessing the CLK signal needs to be on the same length jumper as REQ, GNT and IDSEL for them to latch to the leading edge properly?

 

On 7/13/2018 at 11:46 AM, trag said:

Also would be interesting to know whehter the INTs are tied together but unique per slot.  That's how they are on X500 and X600 machines.   Each slot has its own unique INT, but all four INT pins in the slot are tied together to that single INT.

INTs are what it's all about ATM, that and cutting down one of my single slot 1U RA adapters to fit into the Comm Slot. If I desolder the connector and install four headers that's half of the Slot $E1 equation.

 

There's nowhere to hijack signals from the phantom Slot C1, that'll have to be checked by using the only riser I've found that has no jumper cards. The only thing that makes sense for that one is that it goes into A1 and rolls its own B1 and C1 from there. That's a tech support call for the morning, but just maybe I can get the riser I have on hand to speak E1 at some point. [}:)]

 

 

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So far so good. Advantech support told me there are no jumpers on this card's schematic, but I'll have to wait until Wednesday to talk to the tech who directly supports it.

 

AIMB-RP30P_SPL.jpg.632221ef6225d8eb1a95ca251400c1af.jpg

 

It's the only three slot riser I've found that might work in Alchemy/Gossamer for implementing Slot C1.

 

 

 

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