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Von

SE/30 Power Supply: Recap or ATX?

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Hi All,

 

One of my SE/30s is getting its motherboard recapped and this is what is PSU looks like with leaky goo:

 

2018-05-28_15_04_52.jpg

 

The machine has a new old stock analog board and will have the following when completed:

  1. Micron Video card with grayscale adaptere
  2. Daystar 50 mhz accelerator that goes plugs into the socketed motherboard
  3. Asante Ethernet

 

Given this planned configuration, would you recommend getting the PS recapped or heading down the path of hacking in an ATX power supply? FWIW, reecapping is not in my skill set but I think I could follow along to do the ATX if it is just soldering some wires.

 

TIA for the input!

 

~Von

 

 

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I have pretty much the same setup minus the video card which I'll hopefully install on top of the Ethernet card someday. My PSU was recapped and everything's fine as far as I can tell.

 

I'd say recap it, and if you experience any problems in the long term, you can still sell it and make a profit.

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I created a list of caps to replace on Mac 128/512/Plus analog/PSU boards some years ago, including DigiKey replacement parts:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/132RwzC8HM5ask-BdY_31txErOCwJDSkz099GY2XLpE0/edit?usp=sharing

 

Has anyone created a similar Excel file of replacement caps for the SE/30's PSU (both ASTEC and SONY) as well as for the Analog Board?

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Not an Excel file, but a DigiKey list for the Analog Board, I created:

https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/29440-capacitor-list-for-se30-analog-board/&do=findComment&comment=318183

 

Also a DigiKey list for the Sony version of the power supply:

https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/gallery/image/1215-se30-sony-power-supply-recapped/

 

 

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On 5/31/2018 at 1:58 AM, JDW said:

I created a list of caps to replace on Mac 128/512/Plus analog/PSU boards some years ago, including DigiKey replacement parts:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/132RwzC8HM5ask-BdY_31txErOCwJDSkz099GY2XLpE0/edit?usp=sharing

 

Has anyone created a similar Excel file of replacement caps for the SE/30's PSU (both ASTEC and SONY) as well as for the Analog Board?

 

Late response, but - OMG thank you! I have been searching for a list of Mac 128/512/Plus analog board replacement parts. I don't know if all the part numbers on DigiKey will still be the same but this is a fantastic start.

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Sorry to necro this thread, but I'm interested in JDW's question:
Has anyone compiled a list of replacement caps for the Astec SE/30 PSU? Or is this a matter of, better off replacing it with a Seasonic?

 

Edit: I'd really just like to save time, but I'm happy to record what I find in mine and come up with a replacement list (which will need editing/refining from one more in the know).

Edited by jessenator

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18 minutes ago, jessenator said:

Sorry to necro this thread, but I'm interested in JDW's question:
Has anyone compiled a list of replacement caps for the Astec SE/30 PSU? Or is this a matter of, better off replacing it with a Seasonic?

Edit: I'd really just like to save time, but I'm happy to record what I find in mine and come up with a replacement list (which will need editing/refining from one more in the know).

 

As I said in my SONY PSU recapping video on YouTube, I don't recommend wasting time recapping the ASTEC since the failure rates of those have historically been higher than the SONY PSUs.  As such, I personally think you would be better served with either a recapped SONY PSU (they do crop up on EBAY, not recapped), or just go with the SEASONIC.  I would say the amount of work required to recap a SONY PSU probably is about the same as the SEASONIC mod, and you can see my SEASONIC video on YouTube about that.  The added benefits of the SEASONIC is more power and all new components.  The benefit of the stock PSUs are no added fan noise.

Edited by JDW

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23 hours ago, jessenator said:

Sorry to necro this thread, but I'm interested in JDW's question:

Has anyone compiled a list of replacement caps for the Astec SE/30 PSU? Or is this a matter of, better off replacing it with a Seasonic?

 

Edit: I'd really just like to save time, but I'm happy to record what I find in mine and come up with a replacement list (which will need editing/refining from one more in the know).

 

23 hours ago, JDW said:

 

As I said in my SONY PSU recapping video on YouTube, I don't recommend wasting time recapping the ASTEC since the failure rates of those have historically been higher than the SONY PSUs.  As such, I personally think you would be better served with either a recapped SONY PSU (they do crop up on EBAY, not recapped), or just go with the SEASONIC.  I would say the amount of work required to recap a SONY PSU probably is about the same as the SEASONIC mod, and you can see my SEASONIC video on YouTube about that.  The added benefits of the SEASONIC is more power and all new components.  The benefit of the stock PSUs are no added fan noise.

@jessenator  I've had no issues recapping Astec PSUs in the SE and SE/30 and I think they are good power supplies.  I'm not sure there is any real evidence that their "failure rates have been historically higher." - If there is a pre-existing problem just recapping might not fix the particular issue but I do it as preventative maintenance.  Voltages have been rock solid afterwards  Attached is the list I compiled along with the particular mouser caps I used.  I found it pretty easy to work on and there aren't that many caps so it wasn't that expensive either.  You'll probably want to make sure the caps are the same in case there are different versions of the PSU (and bear in the mind the Apple PSU pictured at the top of this thread looks similar to the Astec on the outside).

 

Astec PSU.xlsx

 

I've also done the Seasonic retrofit.  Recapping was definitely easier but if you're going to be running a half height 3.5" drive and more than just an Ethernet card, the Seasonic is probably a better choice.  It's harder to find the Seasonics at a reasonable price now though.

Edited by superjer2000

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33 minutes ago, superjer2000 said:

 

@jessenator  I've had no issues recapping Astec PSUs in the SE and SE/30 and I think they are good power supplies.  I'm not sure there is any real evidence that their "failure rates have been historically higher." 

 

Astec PSU.xlsx

Thanks for providing your capacitor list in Excel format.

 

In all the years I've been on vintage Mac forums, I've read more first-hand reports (as well as an abundance of rumor and speculation too) of Astec failures than SONY PSU failures, and it was based on that I put forth my own words on which PSU may be more reliable or less reliable.  Some of the wild speculation probably assumes SONY to be better due to the brand recognition over Astec, which of course is only speculation and shouldn't be used to make any final determination.  Unfortunately, due to all the drive crashes and data loss in this forum through the years, I cannot point you to specific first-hand reports (which I know I have read in the past in this very forum, among others), which say the owner of the said Astec had a failure whereas none of the SONY PSUs in their possession had failed.  I've also read that some Astecs were not repaired even after recaps, but I've not read so many reports of that with the SONY PSU.

 

What can I say from my own personal experience?  Well, I don't have that many SE or SE/30 power supplies to make a meaningful data pool.  I only know that my SONY was dropping voltage due to faulty caps, as evidenced by the fact that after recap, it started working fine again.  I also have an Astec, but I've not recapped that because instead of recapping that I bought a SEASONIC.  And thank your for sharing details of your experience with the SEASONIC, as you were one of the individuals who inspired me to do my own SEASONIC mod. 

 

All said, I think if one has a stock SE/30 without a lot of upgrades bogging down the PSU, a recapped stock PSU should suffice, assuming it has no problems outside the caps.  And the reason I say that is because it runs without a dedicated PSU fan.  The SEASONIC is great when you need more power, but the fan inside can be heard, especially if you have a rather quiet analog board fan and no spinning platter hard drives.  And even though the fan in the SEASONIC is activated by temperature, once the SE/30 has been on for even just a few minutes, the SEASONIC fan tends to come on and stay on in my experience.  The fan isn't too obnoxious, but I wish to mention it since most people who know the stock fanless PSUs may be a tad surprised by the fan noise (however minor) in the SEASONIC.

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2 minutes ago, JDW said:

Thanks for providing your capacitor list in Excel format.

 

I keep meaning to clean up the lists I've made and post them as I've done quite a few analog board/PSU recaps that I've made lists for.  I will say overall I've had good luck with all of the Astec PSUs I've encountered and recapped across a number of Macs.

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1 hour ago, superjer2000 said:

I keep meaning to clean up the lists I've made and post them as I've done quite a few analog board/PSU recaps that I've made lists for. 

I look forward to your forthcoming posts! :-) And truly, once its posted (assuming no more data loss in this forum from hard drive crashes) it serves as a great information resource for others.  That's really my own drive to video what I do and put it up on YouTube.  I often wish somebody else had made such a video, but since there aren't any (or at least, not of high quality and adequate detail) I make my own.  Admittedly, it takes a LOT of time to do that, however. But another reason I do it is because I've become terribly forgetful in recent years and having a video not only helps others but reminds me very clearly what I did in the past.  Anyway, thanks for all your contributions to this forum!

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18 minutes ago, JDW said:

But another reason I do it is because I've become terribly forgetful in recent years and having a video not only helps others but reminds me very clearly what I did in the past.  Anyway, thanks for all your contributions to this forum!

It's funny you say that as I have noticed the same thing - I think it's a matter of keeping everything straight with work, family, projects at home and then these side computer projects.  There is a lot more going on than when I was young and could seemingly remember everything.  I've taken to writing down notes on any of the more complex projects I work on, including how I've troubleshooted particular problems as otherwise when I try to think back to it weeks or months later, it's just fragments.  I keep an Apple IIe on my desk to document these items.

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Thanks for the additional thoughts, gents.

 

My current supply does work, but a due diligence recap is a definite. There may be a replacement down the line. I think a recap now would be more economical (for me personally). (<$20 for parts vs >$50 for a Sony psu and parts —a rough estimate, as of this morning).

 

And I don't have anything going into it beyond a scsi2sd, macsimm, and 32meg of RAM, currently.

 

This might change when/if I manage to track down a PowerCache or a DiiMo, but that's not an immediate future goalpost. And by that point I'll probably just go the seasonic route, barring its discontinuation and larger price hike.

 

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9 hours ago, jessenator said:

superjer2000 let me know if I've missed something. I just took your excel doc and put it into google drive: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nNdyF3AmS5j5TuW6KUp-8z5YyOCSNTk1GoV-aE7BsHU/edit?usp=sharing

At a really quick glance it looks good. You should be able to verify your getting the right parts by making sure what  you put into mouser returns the same parts as the screen shots of my order I included. This is again assuming there was only one version of the Astec PSU.  I'll be doing another in the next couple of weeks as I just grabbed an SE/30 with an Astec.  Very clean machine with just a bit of cap leakage on the motherboard. I always order about 5 to 10 x the number of caps I need Build an inventory and prices go down substantially with 10x of a single item with Mouser.  

 

 

Edited by superjer2000

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I'm late, but is there possibly a third type of power supply? I picked up what looks like a standard SE/30 with a beige power receptacle and switch, but the power supply (with leaking caps) is marked as follows:

Inner case - APPLE COMPUTER 805-0945-01 MADE IN SINGAPORE
PCB front - APPLE COMPUTER S'PORE PTE LTD

PCB rear - 820-0385-A

 

The recap parts list for both Sony and Astec supplies do not align, and there are numerous small capacitors on the board. 
I'm assuming I'll either have to track down the 17 electrolytic cap part numbers and do a recap, replace with a used unit, or adapt a modern supply into the case.

89849564_287694522198025_8970600360943026176_n.jpg

89731517_648045876017738_8358947054638071808_n.jpg

89519239_509811336369816_2193041933771735040_n.jpg

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1 hour ago, iamroot said:

I'm late, but is there possibly a third type of power supply?

Clearly there is! :-) 

 

The general location of most of the capacitors is quite similar to the Sony, and even the big 620uF matches. But I do see the layout differences.

 

Would you mind making a detailed list of all the caps on your PSU, noting the silkscreen markings like C1, C2, etc., as well as noting the voltage and capacitance on each electrolytic cap?  Also, if you have calipers or a metric ruler, noting the spacing between the two feet of each cap is useful too, to ensure replacements fit properly.

 

Lastly, I see the green solder mask is partly coming off on the bottom of your board.  You should replace that with new UV solder mask like this when you recap. You can cure it in sunlight. Just be sure to carefully scrap off al the old bubbled soldermask first.

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Just a quick note that using the kit I had already purchased from Console5.com for the Sony recap, I got 10 of the 17 caps I needed for this job (Same capacitance, same/higher voltage). I found the other 7 I needed (primarily 10uF/25V in my spares drawer. So I will take a go at this as time allows and report back. Thanks!

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@iamroot

 

Outstanding job!  I will edit the text description under my SONY PSU Recapping video to include a link to your previous post in this thread since the information you just posted will be of great help to anyone considering a recap of that version power supply.  Thank you for sharing!

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28 minutes ago, JDW said:

@iamroot

 

Outstanding job!  I will edit the text description under my SONY PSU Recapping video to include a link to your previous post in this thread since the information you just posted will be of great help to anyone considering a recap of that version power supply.  Thank you for sharing!

Thank you for your service to the community! 

 

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I have the same PSU as iamroot.  I ordered my cap kit from console5 as well (sony) and I am weighing my option on wether or not to recap it or install a modern psu.  The seasonic ive seen posted in here is really expensive... I have the desire to put in an ethernet card and grayscale card at some point also, so the modern psu might be a better choice.  Question is, I have some really nice ATX power supplies laying about, it would be nice to be able to use one of them, but I am nervous about frying this machine as I have wanted an SE/30 for a long time and finally was able to pick one up for a good price.   I just recapped the logic board and analog board, but I wasn't expecting the PSU to be different.    I am new to the community thanks for having me!

IMG_1425.jpg

IMG_1426.jpg

IMG_1427.jpg

Edited by thxkbye

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2 hours ago, thxkbye said:

I have some really nice ATX power supplies laying about, it would be nice to be able to use one of them, but I am nervous about frying this machine as I have wanted an SE/30 for a long time and finally was able to pick one up for a good price. 

 

IMG_1426.jpg

 

 

The problem I see in a potential recap of your board is that a fair amount of the bottom copper is rusted/rotted underneath the green solder mask.  A recap alone without addressing that problem would not be advisable. The condition would grow worse over time and it also could prevent even a recapped board from working properly.  You would need to try to carefully scrape off the blackened solder mask to examine the copper underneath to determine how much of it is left.

 

As to use of your existing ATX power supplies, assuming they would physically fit, you will need to tell us the electrical specifications so we can tell you if it would be safe to use.  Also keep in mind that many ATX PSU's have a fan, and whether that noice would be a bother to you is something you would need to decide.

 

I now see that the only SEASONIC available on Amazon is the SSP-300SUG, selling for a rather high $109. I used the SSP-250SUB which cost about $49+shipping.  The manufacturer's web page doesn't say anything about the product being End of Life, so I sent them an email just now to inquire further.  I told them that their response to me would be presented to the vintage Mac community, and that a price of about $49 is what we are looking for. Let's see what they have to say.

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