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JDW

Modern PSU for the SE/30

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12 minutes ago, Von said:

OK, I am in.  I just ordered one of these from NewEgg.com for just under $50 shipped...

Could you please provide a link?

 

I'm thinking about buying at least one, possibly two, but I need to get them shipped to me in Japan.  Curious if NewEgg would do that.

 

Thanks.

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Well, I finally found the Seasonic SSP-250SUB PSU on EBAY, and thankfully they ship to Japan and will combine shipping for multiple units.

 

That Seasonic PSU also seems to have a Fanless Mode.

Is there a switch on it to set the mode, or does it just shut-off the fan when at 30% or less of maximum load?

Edited by JDW

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10 hours ago, JDW said:

That Seasonic PSU also seems to have a Fanless Mode.

Is there a switch on it to set the mode, or does it just shut-off the fan when at 30% or less of maximum load?

That feature was one of the reasons I decided to try this unit.  I looked for more detail on the Seasonic site however I could not find anything to download.  I'll need to be patient until it arrives.

 

Still looking for a mapping of stock SE/30 PSU wires to their needed voltages if anyone has this diagram or link.  THx!

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16 hours ago, Von said:

Does anyone have a diagram that maps the colored wires from the original PSU to their needed voltages?

 

Here is what I have:

BK, BK, BK OR, YW

BR, BK, BK OR, RD

 

I found this helpful link with the detail:

 

Pinouts 
 

20 Pin ATX Connector
atx
10 Pin SE Power Connector
-12V 6 power 1 GND
GND 7 2 GND
GND 8 3 GND
+5V 9 4 +5V
+12V Sweep 10 5 +12V

 

 

 

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I have been meaning to provide a bit of an update on my use of the Seasonic PSU:

 

1) The wiring diagram's Von posted above is what I used and is the same as I linked to in an earlier post in this thread.  The Seasonic PSU follows the standard ATX color codes.

2) The Seasonic's 26 pin connector has many wires doubled up as there are more than 26 wires running to the ATX connectors, drive cables etc.  I just pulled all of the pins out of the 26 pin molex connector (If you turn the connector to the non-wire side, you can slide in staples beside the pins inside the connector.  Once you do that on both side of the pin, the wire pulls out from the connector.  I found a good how to on YouTube.)  I then cut off the wires and replaced the pins where needed.  On the other side (i.e. to the ATX power connector) I just pulled those wires and pins out and pushed them in the 10 pin SE/30 connector).

3) I bought replacement pins and the 10 pin Molex connector (so I could kept my original PSU intact) from moddiy.com  Female Pins Part # MP-ATX-F and Molex Connector:  CO021.  I bought my terminal crimper from amazon: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B017JU20Z6/

4) In the pictures you can see I left the non-conductive paper from the power supply intact.  I think I'll go back and cut off the "wings" on the side for better air flow.

5) Use the AC Plug from the new PSU.  There is a filter capacitor attached by two wires to the plug on the PSU.  I was able to just bend the wires to get it out of the way and then pull out the AC plug.  When I put it into the SE30 PSU case, you can see I folded the wires again and rested the filter capacitor (it's in a plastic case) on top of the unused terminals on the SE/30 power switch.  I just used the bottom terminals as I switched the PSU ON and COM rather than switching line/load.

6) I'm not sure if the Seasonic fan turns on based on just load or load/temp, but it has turned on in my SE/30.  I could hear the PSU fan overtop of the SE/30's fan but it wasn't obnoxious.  I am planning on replacing my SE/30 fans with the high CFM Deltas noted in another thread as I'd rather deal with noise and a cooler unit.

 

I have moved the Seasonic retrofit PSU into my good SE/30 (with the good screen) and it is working great (I originally had it in my second SE/30 which a CRT that suffers from ghosting)..  I was hoping to test it with my Ethernet card, but in doing all of this shuffling, I've discovered one of my SE/30's seems to be a partially upgraded SE.  The case shows SE/30, the motherboard is an SE/30 but the PDS cut out in isn't big enough and the floppy is just an 800k floppy. 

 

I've just finished my second power supply using an Antec MT-352 and that was, in comparison, a nightmare.  I'll post pictures of that on the weekend for comparison.

 

Next up is recapping the analog boards - Lots of good information has been posted on that subject recently.  

Edited by superjer2000

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I wouldn't trust myself to build this successfully but if someone were doing the project and wanted to make an extra seasonic one, I'd be happy to pay for time + materials for one! 

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Thanks everyone for all the great information. I'm gonna give the Seasonic PSU a go! Hopefully it'll fix my issue of not being able to run two PDS cards inside my SE/30 (i.e. Daystar + Ethernet)

 

@nickpunt I'm no electrical engineer - so I'm happy to risk my own life, but I wouldn't trust myself providing high-voltage parts to others sorry. I'll happily share my experiences though...

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18 hours ago, superjer2000 said:

6) I'm not sure if the Seasonic fan turns on based on just load or load/temp, but it has turned on in my SE/30.  I could hear the PSU fan overtop of the SE/30's fan but it wasn't obnoxious.

@superjer2000 do you recall if the fan was sucking air through the vents in the Seasonic case and blowing out the back or sucking air in the back of the case and blowing it through the case and out the vents? I am guessing the former.

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On 6/1/2018 at 3:11 PM, Von said:

@superjer2000 do you recall if the fan was sucking air through the vents in the Seasonic case and blowing out the back or sucking air in the back of the case and blowing it through the case and out the vents? I am guessing the former.

Hi Von - It blows air out the back.

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I replaced the Sony power supply in my SE 30 with the other power supply I had purchased (an Antec MT-352).  I would strongly recommend going with the Seasonic as the Antec was much more difficult to transplant.  The spades on the power plug in the Antec were soldered onto a daughter board which was then hardwired to the main PSU.  This daughterboard wouldn't fit on the back of the power plug in the Sony case so I needed to mount it on the bottom of the PSU case with nylon standoffs and then run wires from the power plug to this daughter board.  

 

Ultimately, I was still happy with how it turned out, but for my other two SEs, I will probably just go with the Seasonics as I think it's much quicker to replace the current PSU with a Seasonic than recap the old PSU.  

 

From an earlier post, I noted my one of my SE/30's screens had a lot of ghosting - I replaced the screen from a donor Plus and now both units are perfect and running on new PSUs.

 

Lastly, in response to an earlier post in this thread, I would agree that these types of mods are at your own hand and risk.  I still unplug my units from the wall just in case...

 

IMG_2928.thumb.JPG.c4bc907453694420eefa5c8a12493ff8.JPGIMG_2929.thumb.JPG.408f903fa335b40e8b6ef82eae8c5a62.JPG

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Hi all, I was wondering if anyone looked into the PicoPSU's available online? e.g:

 

de_12v5a-imglg.jpg.179cb2b7fba171044108c2ccae736f01.jpg plus s-l500.jpg.871e663f81ddaf56187da950821ebb0b.jpg

 

They are fanless, and you can get output up to 192W - but perhaps a 100W or 120W would suffice? From what I understand, the stock SE/30 PSU is just 76W?

 

There's probably a lot I haven't considered, but I'd love to hear anyone's feedback.

 

Thanks.

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No doubt it would work, @ants, but because it doesn't appear to have the isolated 12V lines discussed previously, there may be noise introduced to the video during disk access.  I say "may be", because I don't of anyone that has tried running the DISK and SWEEP circuits from a singular 12V source.   Perhaps it's a good solution for machines which don't include a built-in display.

Edited by joethezombie

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Thanks @joethezombie for the info - so what I'm hearing is that I should definitely give it a go ;)

 

I'll read though the previous posts in more detail first though...

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9 hours ago, joethezombie said:

No doubt it would work, @ants, but because it doesn't appear to have the isolated 12V lines discussed previously, there may be noise introduced to the video during disk access.  I say "may be", because I don't of anyone that has tried running the DISK and SWEEP circuits from a singular 12V source.   Perhaps it's a good solution for machines which don't include a built-in display.

I don't know on that. Looking at what ants linked to, there does appear to be two separate 12v lines (one to the atx connector and the other to the four pin connector).  I'm not sure how isolated they are in that picoPSU but there was full continuity between all of the 12v wires on both supplies I used and neither have any noise on the display.  The upside to the PicoPSU is perhaps temperature as the brick is outside the computer but in addition to the PicoPSU you would still need a power brick adding to the cost and a hole somewhere in the machine to mount the DC-in. 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, superjer2000 said:

The upside to the PicoPSU is perhaps temperature as the brick is outside the computer

I was kind of hoping I could pop the plastic casing off and mount the brick inside the existing SE/30 PSU case? Bad idea??

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1 hour ago, superjer2000 said:

I don't know on that. Looking at what ants linked to, there does appear to be two separate 12v lines

 

Well, I did say "may be" and "doesn't appear to" for a reason...  I don't have one, so I'm not going to be definitive.

 

If we look at the product

http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-160-XT

 

And read the manual

http://resources.mini-box.com/online/PWR-PICOPSU-160-XT/PWR-PICOPSU-160-XT-manual.pdf

 

There is nothing in there to indicate more than one 12V rail.  Looking at the DC-DC board, I only see two regulators, probably one for 5V and one for 3.3V.  I would guess that the 12V originates from the brick.  Will this cause any issues with the display?  I don't know.  Like I said, I don't know of anyone that has ran both the SWEEP and DISK circuits from a singular 12V source, unless the power supplies you used are advertised as single rail?

 

52 minutes ago, superjer2000 said:

but there was full continuity between all of the 12v wires on both supplies I used

 

Perhaps so, but is there any filter capacitors,inductors, or diodes for noise control on those PSUs?  I don't know, but if they advertise as having multiple rails, one would think there is some kind of additional circuitry in there to support the claim.  That also makes me curious if continuity is present on the Apple power supplies.  I'll have to check next time I have a compact apart.  If everything does run fine on a single 12V rail, it kind of makes me wonder what Apple was thinking in having two.

 

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On 6/3/2018 at 9:47 PM, ants said:

Hi all, I was wondering if anyone looked into the PicoPSU's available online? e.g:

 

de_12v5a-imglg.jpg.179cb2b7fba171044108c2ccae736f01.jpg plus s-l500.jpg.871e663f81ddaf56187da950821ebb0b.jpg

 

They are fanless, and you can get output up to 192W - but perhaps a 100W or 120W would suffice? From what I understand, the stock SE/30 PSU is just 76W?

 

There's probably a lot I haven't considered, but I'd love to hear anyone's feedback.

 

Thanks.

Those picoPSUs tend to be very light on the 12v amps, but I have no idea if that's a concern for an early mac like this.  I have a 160 and I want to say anything beyond 5 amps on 12v rail will require active cooling of the PSU?

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It would be interesting to trace where pin 9 goes to from the Power Supply connector, on a IIcx or IIci.   According to the power supply schematic for those models, that is the PS ON/OFF signal.   I'll bet it goes to one of the pins on the little chip whose designation I can't remember...   The ADB controller guy.  I think it's a 28 or 32 pin square PLCC.   Something like that.  If I was at home I'd look at one of the IICX boards that are waiting for me to finish cleaning them.

 

There's a good chance the same chip and signal are present on the SE/30 as on the IIcx.

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16 hours ago, joethezombie said:

 

Well, I did say "may be" and "doesn't appear to" for a reason...  I don't have one, so I'm not going to be definitive.

 

If we look at the product

http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-160-XT

 

And read the manual

http://resources.mini-box.com/online/PWR-PICOPSU-160-XT/PWR-PICOPSU-160-XT-manual.pdf

 

Perhaps so, but is there any filter capacitors,inductors, or diodes for noise control on those PSUs?  I don't know, but if they advertise as having multiple rails, one would think there is some kind of additional circuitry in there to support the claim.  That also makes me curious if continuity is present on the Apple power supplies.  I'll have to check next time I have a compact apart.  If everything does run fine on a single 12V rail, it kind of makes me wonder what Apple was thinking in having two.

 

Hi Joe,

 

I agree with everything you said - When I was looking for power supplies for the SE/30, a lot of articles I read indicated that PSUs that advertise two separate rails often only have one.  For the Seasonic I used, I'm not sure if there are any electronics separating the rails, but because there was complete continuity between the lines, I just picked two 12V lines (I picked one from the ATX connector and one from the 4 pin mother board connector assuming those, if any, would be separate) so even there are two rails, I might have ended up picking the same rail.

 

For the Antec retrofit I just did, all of the 12V lines were soldered to the same place on the PSU, so I don't think there really is any independence between the two rails.  That being said, I have been using that SE/30 a lot lately and I haven't noticed any interference at all with the screen (the unit has an Ethernet card and I have played with the floppy drive) and stability has been rock solid.

 

I do worry/wonder if there would be any stress introduced to the analog board by not having the two separate rails but I don't know enough to comment on that.  One thing I have forgotten to mention is that I didn't do anything with the 3.3V rail.  My voltages are all 100% perfect and don't vary, but I know for the Seasonic there is a SUG version (versus the SUB version that I have) that specifically indicates in the specs that it has a zero minimum load on the 3.3V rail whereas my SUB doesn't indicate that to be the case.  The SUG version doesn't have enough juice on the -12V line which is why I stuck with the SUB version.  I had thought about putting in a big resistor to put some load on the 3.3V, but everything seems OK so I've left it.

 

 

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17 hours ago, ants said:

I was kind of hoping I could pop the plastic casing off and mount the brick inside the existing SE/30 PSU case? Bad idea??

I'm not sure what the benefit would be of using that supply versus the Seasonic or the supply Joe used.  My experience in pulling power bricks apart is that they aren't always designed to come apart.  The ATX supplies we used are in a metal case and are transplanted to a metal case so I'm happy with the grounding provisions etc.  I think that if you're planning on putting the PSU brick into the SE/30, you're up for some more re-engineering.  There might be some benefit though in keeping the power brick external as you could use the same brick to power multiple machines, you can physically see the brick and know it's not going to burn your house down and you can make your compact mac run cooler.

 

Now that I have all of the parts and tools I need, I think I could retrofit a Seasonic into an SE/30 in about an hour.  I think that trying to shoehorn an external power brick into an internal PSU might be a bit more challenging.

Edited by superjer2000

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2 hours ago, superjer2000 said:

I'm not sure what the benefit would be of using that supply versus the Seasonic or the supply Joe used.

There's only one benefit i can think of - it's fanless. I've just replaced the fan in my SE/30 with a nice quiet Noctua one, and it'd be a shame to add another fan for the PSU.

 

I'm not adverse to keeping the brick outside of the Mac - but I'll assess once it arrives.

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1 hour ago, ants said:

There's only one benefit i can think of - it's fanless...

As I said in my earlier post, the Seasonic documentation says it can run fanless if the LOAD is 30% of max.  You gentlemen who use the SEASONIC, can you please confirm this in your SE/30 use cases?  Please explain how that feature works.  Does the fan simply not spin at all when the actual LOAD is only 30% or less than a 100% LOAD?  Or must you connect a wire to get that feature to work?  How does it work?

 

Thanks.

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