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The Definitive Guide to Connecting your SE/30

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Great!

 

I don't many replies about the Guide, so I just imagine everybody just is just agape with awe. :approve:

 

I did some searching to find out how to image disks (dump) in OS X. I was really looking for DC 4.2 compatible images but I guess that's just a pipe dream. During my searches I heard that the DC 4.2 feature is more or less borked in OS X. (Maybe it's to match the broken Grab feature from the Services menu...never worked on any OS X version I've ever used).

 

Here's my todo list so far:

1. Linux with Netatalk down to AS 1.1 and up to...?

2. Windows Server 2000 SFM

3. Serial Data Transfer (mac to OS X, mac to linux, and windows xp)

4. try to find out how to transfer via ftp in terminal a file that is not in the user directory: i.e. expanded PUT/GET usage

5. figure out minimum to access ftp or at least say how to do it

6. talk about http disk

 

I'm pleased that bbraun can cook up some useful software these days to help us. I'll have to work on a section covering his software.

 

I did dump every single link I linked to in the Guide so if something goes down (like Jolo's Bolo Pages), rest assured, I have it.

 

Once I get those boxes all ticked as best as I can, I'll get to relax! Usually when I'm on the computer I'll sneak in a few changes here or there, fixing typos or illogical sentences. I know my writing isn't spectacular or easy to follow (I'll be parsing the page and I'll be thinking, "Who on earth wrote that???") but best is better than something, and something is better than nothing, and nothing is better than being forced to dine on poisoned fish skeletons...

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For OSX disk dumping, I used disk utility to mount a floppy and create a *.dmg from it.

From there I had to use this http://forums.macresource.com/read.php?1,160169

just converting a DMG to an IMG.

I FTP'd it over to my 8.6 G3 and it mounted in 6.3.3. Now my goal is to get it on the SE (7.0.1) which also has 6.3.3 and see if I can't mount it, open 4.2 and 'create an image'

the goal is to skip the G3 middle man. That's about the easiest way I could think to do it.

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Good updates today!

 

1. Added a section about Win 2000 Server SFM.

2. Added a section concerning the FTP server in 2000 Server. I may revisit both of these sections a little bit later, the machine used for this test had a borked Pin 1 on the RS232 port so I have another machine on the way. Kinda need the serial port...intact...

3. Added an image in the Disk Images section to help identify MFS versus HFS disks. I don't know of any methods in higher OS versions other than the drag-to-the-desktop "test". I'll be investigating further.

 

More. To. Come.

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My SE30 has an asante pds ethernet card, no drivers installed that I can see, it has a pass through and a spot on the pds card for what looks like an FPU. Can I pop in one ? will it just work? Should I put one in or can I put in my daystar univerasal powercache? what needs drivers and where can I get them? I am sure I can search some more for these answers but this should keep the thread going until i find them. :)}:)

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You don't need anything in there, AFAIK. I never had an Asante card but I know a lot of others do and they work fine.

 

You will need the drivers for the Asante card. The Farallon card that I used for my former SE/30 were already supported by the NSI installations.

 

To Come:

 

1. fix up the mystery section

2. figure out how to use GET/PUT to drop files in locations other than the home folder in OS X

3. 400K disk ID other than using System 6

4. find limitations of AppleShare IP 5.0.2 (mcdermd?)

5. talk about some of bbrauns software

6. serial data xfer

7. figure out the 10.3 connection limitations -- probably see if it can mount system 6 and/or if system 6 can see it in the chooser. I have heard of 10.3 anamolies with AFP (mcdermd?)

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spot on the pds card for what looks like an FPU. Can I pop in one ?

 

I thought the SE/30 had a built-in 68882 FPU on the logic board? My impression is that the FPU socket on SE/30 expansion cards are there for use in the IIsi which doesn't even have an FPU socket on the logic board.

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1.) Fixed up the mystery section. One item won't work till we fix it.

2.) Updated the "updated" date correctly this time. :)

3.) Revamped the section that talks about what capabilities a Superdrive can do and instead replaced it with a much neater and cleaner itemized list.

4.) Small fixes and changes here and there, like adding a method to change the working directory on the client FTP with "lcd".

5.) I guess all we have for detecting an MFS disk from a HFS disk in System 7+ is to drag an item from the desktop. A 400K HFS disk won't pop a dialog box. (Considering there are options for 800K MFS disks too...)

6.) Cleaned up The Chart to reflect the new developments concerning Win 2000 Server SFM.

 

Next update will come in a little while. Maybe about two months.

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1) Made new changes/additions/corrections to the area concerning imaging disks within Windows.

2) Spiffed up the itemized list to be a little more comprehensive.

3) Added the proper Terminal commands to cover NDIF disk images.

4) Added an image in the notes under The Chart with my E500 running Win 2K Server hooked up to the Duo 230/100 over LocalTalk with an AFP bridge. (I'd like to have XP on that thing but it maxes out at 512MB of RAM...)

 

Next major update will come when I get an LC to handle some System 6 stuff. I'll have to appropriate a USB to RS232 adapter, then a RS232 to RS422 adapter, then make a DE9 to mini-DIN 8 cable. Maybe in a couple of months. I'm working on trying to figure how to make Netatalk work with System 6, and how to get it to compile correctly from source with any necessary flags, since there's a lot of gotchas with Netatalk.

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7.6, OT 1.3, AppleShare 3.8.3 on my PB180 with Asante EN/SC I can appleshare over the network to my G4 mini running OS 10.5 server WOOT!

 

Printing still doesn't work(sharing my printers w/10.5 server since neither are appletalk capable), can see the printers, but it never prints using laserwriter 8... got it to print a text file with a piece of software called 'LPR 1.2'

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10.5 Server, not the regular 10.5 distro?

 

Nice. I haven't covered the Server versions of OS X. The PB mounts the 10.5 machine?

 

Stay tuned, because in about a month, the 3.5-months-in-the-making version 3.0 release will be out. It'll be rewritten (nearly every single section has been rewritten), updated with the new Netatalk information, ZModem transfers, the "Fake Dialup over PPP" section (but it'll probably be discussed re: OS X) the Data Transfer Rates section, and more.

 

The Netatalk section in particular has been made to be especially easy to follow, even if you don't speak Terminalese or even know what Linux is.

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10.5 Server, not the regular 10.5 distro?

 

Nice. I haven't covered the Server versions of OS X. The PB mounts the 10.5 machine?

 

Yes the Powerbook mounts sharepoints from 10.5 server no problem and I can transfer files no problem. I just tried regular 10.5 only got as far as selecting the sharepoint get a type 1 error for application "unknown" every time. So it appears only 10.5 server will work. Makes me happy, I have network time machine server and file server for my modern macs and file server for my 68k mac. just need to get printing to work...

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The updated version 3 has arrived, and here's a somewhat comprehensive changelog:

 

Changes to both documents:

- Ported the whole shebang to HTML 4.01 Strict type, instead of XHTML 1.0 Transitional. There wasn't different between the two in my case, because the page is all pretty simple: tags for font formatting, some tables, CSS, images, header/footer, title bar, some lists, and that's about it. As before, no JavaScript, cookies, Flash, Java, Shockwave, ... just plain HTML.

- I was going to make a CSS-free Internet Explorer Compatibility version. This meant having to go through the -entire- document(s) from top to bottom adding a bunch of

 

tags, since with CSS you can get away with just using

everywhere. (Nobody told me this on the HTML tutorials, but

tags justify the width of the paragraph to width of the page, while CSS usually defines a width, making

tags kind of irrelevant.) After I thought about it for awhile, I aborted it. Oh well. There wasn't anything in particular that XHMTL offered me anyways.

- Changed the background (CSS) to a very light grey to make it a bit less harsh on the eyes.

- Removed a lot of references that were pretty much specific to the SE/30: the original version was written with the SE/30 in mind, and the progress this Guide has advanced to the point where it covers pretty much any Mac.

- Added or replaced quite a few new images. Some were removed but they're still in the /images/ directory. Oh well no biggie.

- Ran the whole shebang throw a HTML validator and cleaned up the loose ends. Spellcheck too.

- I got a severe itch against the over-use of "you" and "your". Most of the Guide was rewritten to allow this reference no more than once or twice per page section.

- Pretty much every single section has been rewritten, some more than once (Emergency Network Access Disks section).

- Because I didn't have a keyboard for the LCII, I had to figure out ways of doing things that would ordinarily be no problem. Because of this I had to work out how to enable Guest access in Win 2K Server and Netatalk.

 

Changes to the main page:

- Rewrote the introduction. Changed the intro image of the SE/30 to another one. Added an image shown 7.6.1 to Win 2K S.

- Moved the acknowlegements to the introduction.

- Changed up the header links.

- Figured out the anamoly concerning 10.3. I ran every version of 10.3, from 10.3.0 to 10.3.1 to 10.3.2 et al all the way up to 10.3.9 and it works just like 10.4 except it doesn't need the TCP Quantum hack.

- Rewrote the Hardware section so that Hardware Network Options with Ethernet and Serial are properly organized.

- Rewrote the Assorted Notes section.

- The Chart has been reworked entirely. It now should be visible in one screen of 1024x768, if need be. I've spent over three day's worth of work on just that thing revising it.

- Changed the main MacTCP config image to something that shows active Internet access, for increased relevance and accuracy.

- Moved the Internet sharing feature of OS X out of the Tiger section and into the intro body of OS X.

- The Linux section was rewritten from scratch, thanks to major developments (kudos to protocol7 for providing information that couldn't be found elsewhere on the net).

- Changed the Encountered Issues from a table to a more compact regular in-line format.

- Rewrote and reorganized the FTP section, placing it back to the main page. The new Clients and Client Access section should make the procedures to link up clearer.

- Added a newbie command list for those who are unfamariliar with FTPing with Terminal.

- Added more discussion concerning other browsers like Mosaic.

- Added the Serial Data Interlinks section and inserted the LocalTalk section back into the main page. Rewrote the LocalTalk section.

- RS232 terminal data transfer is now covered, from terminal data transfer to pseudo PPP dialup. Long time in the making...

- Introduction now has a little mini-index to help draw more attention to the More info page.

- I took 10.0 and 10.1 for a spin and the issues have been reported in the Chart. 10.0 is pretty interesting until you find out how unreliable it is...

- Covered afpfs-ng. Cliff Notes: Don't waste your time.

- The iOS Netatalk Server section has been added.

- The fancy graphic for the RS232 to Mini-DIN-8 adapter cable took a whole day's work to make. AppleWorks 6.2.9 FOREVER!!! not...

- Shifted the Internet section down below the Serial Data Interlinks section as that makes more sense.

 

Changes to the more info page:

- Moved the System Software installation tutorial out of the way to this section. Also rewritten.

- Revamped the Working with Disk Images section. I can't think of a more comprehensive article covering disk images on the net concerning old Macs. Moved the NDIF terminal command to nearer the top next to the DC 4.2 command so it's more visible, and revamped the Microsoft Windows sub-section.

- Rewrote the entire Emergency Network Access Disks section.

- Added the Data Transfer Rates section, which demonstrates some sample transfer rates for those ... simply wondering.

- Rewrote the entire Early AppleShare Versions section so it's clearer and more concise. (Maybe.)

- Fixed up a couple of issues in another section...

- Moved the Links section to this area, along with the FAQ.

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For a completely off in left field thought, thinking of serial connections. What about one of those RS-232 to WiFi thiggies? http://serialio.com/products/mobile/wifi/WiSnapAAA.php

 

 

If there is some way to get it to work... imagine being in Starbucks with an old Powerbook connected to the WiFi, checking email(slowly) but no frikin' wires WOO! (might be room to hide one inside a portable... maybe one of the imbedded ones on the modem port inside a PB 1XX). 8-o

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Here's the problem with that method.

 

The pseudo-PPP dialup and regular dialups require the server, not the client to provide PPP services.

 

I am pretty sure there is a way to provide PPP services over WiFi, just like there is PPPoE, but the ISP isn't a PPP provider.

 

Furthermore, Ethernet is significantly faster than serial ports are. The fastest transfer rates I observed from these machines was 3.5Mbps, but that's over AFP. FTP is a little more on the slow-side. http://www.applefool.com/se30/moreinfo.html#transferrates

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if you had kept a SE/30 MAYBE YOU COULD HAVE DONE SOME TESTING WITH THIS?? :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) :-)

 

you want to send it back to me than? :p I still have the plus, that'll work fine.

 

Here's the problem with that method.

 

The pseudo-PPP dialup and regular dialups require the server, not the client to provide PPP services.

 

I am pretty sure there is a way to provide PPP services over WiFi, just like there is PPPoE, but the ISP isn't a PPP provider.

 

Furthermore, Ethernet is significantly faster than serial ports are. The fastest transfer rates I observed from these machines was 3.5Mbps, but that's over AFP. FTP is a little more on the slow-side. http://www.applefool.com/se30/moreinfo.html#transferrates

 

I don't mind having another *modern* machine in the house provide the last link to the internet(would kill the going to starbucks with the PB idea though) really looking for something I can use with the plus to telnet with(got a Zork game going on telehack.com I'd like to play via the plus) guess for now I'll work on using USB/serial to my macbook.

 

and speed is not much of a concern with the plus and telnet, anything is better than what I had 'back in the day' 300baud woooo.

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I wasent referring to the one you sent to me. That one I have hours and hours into. :-) but I finally beat the gangster outta it.

 

I was referring to the one that you wanted for your self, at your work, you know the one you were going to have me recap,

so you could have your self a nice se/30 /w a NIC card in it.

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Well, there's nothing stopping you from sticking a netbook (or a Raspberry Pi? have fun -- hide it inside the case for bonus points) beside the unit and piping WiFi through a serial adapter to the Plus inside the coffee shop, although you'll get some looks :p. If you had 4MB RAM, you could easily run System 7.0.1 or 7.1 on it with Mosaic 2.0.1. The same thing can be done with the old PowerBooks.

 

Although if I was to do that, I'd use a SE/30 with a Ethernet<>WiFi adapter (and the SE/30 looks better than a Plus) or a Macintosh Portable.

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I prefer the plus, quieter. I am a fan of no fans

 

In collage I wrote all my papers on my PB165(also has a Mac II and Supermac J700 in my dorm room) because I could spin down the harddrive and have a silent computer (until the next time I saved my document anyhow)

 

also, as posted in the other network thread, I'm going to see if I can use an emulator to run a MacIP connection |) (I have an Appletalk/Ethernet adaptor)

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Today's updates:

 

1.) New section: Data Encoding Techniques. Here I talk about MacBinary/BinHex encoding and the various matters thereof.

2.) Removed the binhex talk from the FTP section.

3.) Someone mentioned to me on IRC I should talk about At Ease. So I did, it's in the Assorted Notes area. Short version: Can't really network with it, unless there's some secrets I didn't find.

4.) Added some discussion about the 7.5.3 CD Install from Apple in the 7.5.3 section.

5.) Added more info into the Working with Disk Images section.

6.) I spent a couple hours fiddling with floppy disks to find out how slow they are. The results are in the Data Transfer Rates section.

7.) Since I make a series of small tiny adjustments over various periods, I know I made some other small changes (like mentioning the ExitToShell trap) that I can't recall right now.

 

Hopefully more and more users benefit from this Guide!

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I wanted to chime on how awesome this guide is.  Before I took a holiday from my vintage macs my office had mainly PCs and I'd run Mandrake, then Mandriva Linux circa 2007 when these distros had Netatalk baked in.  With a little fiddling it was pretty easy to have linux as the bridge between my SE/30s and IIsi and the PCs. I also had Win NT server v 4.0 and that had SfM and it worked too.

 

I have spent some time resurrecting my old PCs and Macs and have one PC with both Win NT Server 3.51 and 4.0 running that the vintage Macs share with nicely. The problem is that my office now is all current Macs and NTS 3.51/4.0 don't seem to be supported with current hardware. Looks like I'd need Win 2K or 2003 to bridge to my MacBook Pro.

 

On the other PC I had been trying to get a Linux build working. My PC old hardware steered me towards Lubuntu 17.10. Having awareness of Netatalk I found these install instructions on the interweb:  sudo apt-get install netatalk This allowed my MacBook Pro to access the Ubuntu box which was a good start.

 

I then found this guide...The compile your own (http://www.applefool.com/se30/#netatalklinux) instructions seemed daunting but I followed them only to have Netatalk not work.  I figured my original install of Netatalk got in the way so I started from scratch with a fresh install of the 17.10 Lubuntu followed by the Netatalk instructions in the guide.  This too failed on a couple of tries. I then noticed that the instructions had Cups included sudo apt-get install libavahi-client-dev libcups2-dev libdb-dev libssl-dev

If I excluded the Cups entry, the install went fine and the SE/30 & IIsi could see the linux box, however, this older version of Netatalk didn't allow my MBP to connect, even if using the IPV4 IP for the Linux box.  I then remembered playing with Samba and after adding that to Lubuntu with instructions here https://www.howtogeek.com/176471/how-to-share-files-between-windows-and-linux/ all worked!  I shared the same folder in both Netatalk and Samba and the file saved by the vintage mac was visible/editable by my MBP.

 

Having this working on actual PC hardware, I then made a virtual machine of the same Linux configuration in VMWare fusion and that too is working swimmingly.  I then tried to see if I could get a wireless bridge by adding the same Linux distro to an old IBM X31 laptop. Netatalk seems to work only when wired on ethernet but not on wifi. I will play around with that more tomorrow.

 

THx again for pulling this together...very helpful info! I hope excluding Cups helps someone else using Lubuntu.

 

Edited by Von
it was late...typos

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On 4/10/2018 at 2:56 AM, Von said:

I then found this guide...The compile your own (http://www.applefool.com/se30/#netatalklinux) instructions seemed daunting but I followed them only to have Netatalk not work.  I figured my original install of Netatalk got in the way so I started from scratch with a fresh install of the 17.10 Lubuntu followed by the Netatalk instructions in the guide.  This too failed on a couple of tries. I then noticed that the instructions had Cups included sudo apt-get install libavahi-client-dev libcups2-dev libdb-dev libssl-dev

 

I made a docker container for this:

 

https://github.com/unxmaal/docker-netatalk/

 

You should be able to simply install docker and docker-compose under Linux (or another OS X box using homebrew), and then run 'docker-compose up'.

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I have transferred an .AIF file from a OS7.1 SE/30 to my OSX10.11 iMac via FTP without problems, but when I try to FTP the (unaltered) file back from the iMac to the SE/30 it is not successfull (it shows up as zero bytes in the SE/30). An idea then is to use a bridge computer.eg. a G4 running OS9.2.2.
If I have a working .AIF file on my SE/30 running OS7.1 and if I send this from SE/30 to an intermediary OS9 G4 to an iMac OSX10.11 via FTP, then edit the .AIF on this iMac in an audio editor, then save it still as an .AIF file and transfer it back to the SE/30 (via the intermediate OS9 macintosh) using FTP would the resource fork of the .AIF file still be intact when it reaches the SE/30?

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