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Mk.558

The Definitive Guide to Connecting your SE/30

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New additions:

 

-Added an entire new section to handle new random information such as what was added today: handling disk images under Classic, Mac OS X and Linux. Windows will come along as soon as Netatalk is setup properly and is demonstrated properly.

 

- Moved and changed the SSW6NAD section. Say there is a little tidbit that could be quite useful...

 

- Updated section on FTP to include Linux, or at least some version of Linux that is outdated. (I couldn't handle 10.04 LTS. And 10.04 LTS support is supposed to be ending in a little while.)

 

- Updated NetPresenz section to show an additional image of how the Log shows your IP address when starting up. Nice.

 

- Couple of fixes here and there.

 

Hope yall like it!

 

To come sometime...soon when it comes: how to telnet in, Netatalk, using HFV Explorer, and once I get 7.6.1 on the Duo (that'll take a while) I'll have to verify if 7.6.1 with AFP 3.8.3 will hook up with 10.5. It is supposed to, but I'd like to verify myself (or have a creditable source here).

 

After that, there won't be much to add for awhile, unless I obtain a copy of WS2000/2003, which probably will never happen.

 

A word count shows around over 75,180 characters. Good. More to come. (Way over the board limit of 60,000 characters.)

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Today:

 

-Added a section about Linux with Netatalk. The same day I got it working (yesterday) was the same day I removed it and will not go back again to Linux. Put XP on its partition and won't look back. (I do miss 9.10 though, or 10.04 LTS with the human-theme, if Windows 7 looked like that and was as clean, plus worked well, I'd pass on XP and buy it the same week.)

 

-Updated with more info on disk images. Good catch on balrog pointing out that Disk Copy 6.3.3 disregards tag date vital for 400 and 800K disk images. (Stupid.)

 

-Fixed the More Info link on header.

 

-Added more links in the Links section and tuned up the section so it is more organized.

 

-General clean up. (forgot to update the date of last revision. oh well next time)

 

As the article says, if anybody out there can give me a real solid rundown on how to build, compile, and make Netatalk work with these classic Macs, I'm all ears. (I could get it to compile and build, but it wouldn't put netatalk in the proper folders. So I couldn't even get it started. First I tried 9.10, oops it's unsupported, okay let's got to 10.04 LTS, that doesn't work either, and use 11.10 solely for this section. Absolutely hate the look and change.)

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Been pretty quiet here, I guess the silence is a nod of approval :D

 

Working another update. Finished making some useful 800K and 1440K disk images for those soldiers stuck in hard terrain. Funny how whenever I make an important discovery, I end up having to re-examine entire sections to see if they are moot or need to be rewritten :-x

 

I'll have to make some headway on taking a look at Netscape 4.01 and 3.04, I'll be reporting back to the rear line (here) for results. 2.02 isn't real hot unless you're using Gopher, which reminds me...Did I talk about integrated Gopher support in IE? ...nope

 

I've wondered a bit about mentioning Target Disk mode, I used it last weekend to restore my iBook using my Mac mini's CD drive. Worked great. But I can't speak for the older Macs, I'm not very fluent in the individual quirks of the models across the entire span. The UltraDock 16SC and SCE support Target Disk mode, but since my Duo is in parts right now and I have no compatible SCSI cable, it'll have to wait a bit. I highly doubt TDM is supported by most pre-1995 machines.

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Great guide, great job. Kudos!

 

I have finally managed to get my trusty old SE/30 connected to the information superhighway at work, using a Dynalink SCSI ethernet converter. Unfortunately I have not been able to install OpenTransport so I had to make do with MacTCP - a less than ideal solution seeing that I am essentially "highjacking" my own IP number. To avoid IP conflicts (i.e. InterPersonal ones, between me and the network administrator) I will try to get OT up and running as soon as possible. Should be a breeze, though, since I can now download the disk images straight onto my SE/30 instead of having to burn a CD or transfer them on floppies.

 

Setup:

SE/30 40/20

System 7.1 / MacTCP

Dynalink SCSI

Netscape 2.0

External 24" LCD monitor

 

With javascript turned off Netscape 2.0 is very snappy. Webmail (Fastmail.fm) is a pleasure to use, as is Google. Facebook, however, keeps redirecting me to the mobile page. For some reason, Netscape is unsure of what to do with mobile web pages (I am asked to download the source code). Does anyone know if Netscape 3.X can handle these?

 

Speed is alright. I can download files in 60-70 kB/s. Unfortunately I have to disconnect my external 2 GB HD when using the Dynalink. Need to get hold of more SCSi cables. :b&w:

 

A bit of iCandy on my external SE/30 monitor:

 

scaled.php?server=827&filename=se30online2.jpg&res=landing

 

And in all its monochrome glory...

 

scaled.php?server=100&filename=se30online1.jpg&res=landing

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Nice. It's calling home!

 

I could add a picture of your SCSI rig (a nicely composed shot preferred) to the Guide if you'd like. When you installed NSI 1.5.1, what selection did you use (if you customized the install)?

 

I find myself turning green with envy at your Display card. I might have to pick one up someday, however once the Duo is resuscitated I don't think that will be necessary.

 

I was going to make a section in the Guide about how to handle .jpg images. I tried GIFConverter but it just giggled at me. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. (Probably) In the meantime I just opened it in iCab and after about 5 minutes of full load, behold:

 

ad0bbb1b.png

 

(Here is the original, in case anybody was interested.)

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External 24" LCD monitor

What display card are you using, and what resolutions, color/bit depths & timings are you able to get from it? A note on the LCD monitor itself would probably also be handy for people here. :)

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What display card are you using, and what resolutions, color/bit depths & timings are you able to get from it? A note on the LCD monitor itself would probably also be handy for people here.

It's a Rasterops Colorboard 264 featuring 24 bit 640 x 480. It is fixed resolution, originally (I think) intended for the AppleColor High-Resolution RGB 13" Monitor: http://support.apple.com/kb/TA36778. Since the card does not support multisync, the LCD monitor needs to be connected through a DA-15-VGA adapter with dip switches. Don't get me wrong, it's a great card, but I'd prefer to keep my compact compact, and I'd rather have - say - an accelerator card installed. I have never been able to find one in Sweden, though.

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Well the Duo has been resuciated, but it suffers from lack of memory and a dying or bad hard drive. Enter IDE -> CF.

 

Anyways. Making more progress on the Guide. Right now I have to make an entire new section for 10.5. The Duo is the only machine I have that can take 7.5.5+, I did have 8.1 on it at one time but...well....there...were major issues. 7.6.1 would crash after I logged in as the user in the Chooser to 10.5, so it's a deal I'll have to wait until the IDE > CF comes out and I get more memory.

 

Also making a new section under More Info just about LocalTalk. And also have to discuss installing 7.6+. I can't test 10.6/10.7/10.8 because I don't have those OSs. So much new information I'm adding, it may as well start being a book :)

 

If anybody has any real handiwork they'd like to contribute, such as how to telnet in and set up a terminal app, I'm all ears. I know how to start a terminal application: you double-click its icon in the Finder :) and that's about it.

 

I'm also open to sensible critique.

 

I've wondered from time to time how many people visit that page, let alone use it. Thought about putting a counter in but...ehhh don't really need it.

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New additions, a couple of weeks in development:

 

1. LocalTalk section, facilitated by the recent storage unit conquests.

2. Section that covers 10.5. Further development is pending. (10.6 and 10.7 may not happen, I don't know if others here have tried OS 9 to 10.7.)

3. More tips, tidbits, and so forth. A startup disk for 7.5.3 may be in the future. (gonna need it)

4. Added developments about IE 3.04 and 4.01. Cliff's Notes: iCab rules.

5. More pictures! We all love those!

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More developments. This one is about a month in the works, usually off and on.

 

115 pictures were tallied up. That's a lot of words, at 1000 words per picture! Using Page Down on my keyboard, I counted 33 pages of useful information.

 

What have we added this time? Let's see...there's been so much tweaked I don't know where to start!

 

  • Added a little section on networkable games. More could be added with time.
  • Revamped the Network Access Disk section to pave the way for future developments concerning System 7 and 7.5.3 NADs.
  • Corrected how to connect with 10.5. I don't know how it was done under 7.6.1, but...it hasn't been reproducible on my end and mcdermd's end.
  • Made some rework on the Connection List. Further developments are pending for the minimum OS possible, has to do with a 512K and AS Workstation 1.1. Much funzies await with serial hackery.
  • Found a bad image link! Better not tell about which one it was....Many corrections, additions and tweaks.

 

Hope it is useful to all those out there!

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Mk.558,

 

It is very useful to me and I echo what my fellow foot soldiers have said, what a great resource. I have my SE/30 seamlessly connecting to the internet over an airport express thanks to your efforts. Much appreciated.

 

Tugboat

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Tugboat,

 

I assume you followed the applefool.com/se30 version?

 

Certainly, I appreciate that others have found it useful. However, I merely collated the various sources around the web and smacked them all together into some sort of how-to. Personal testing and all that was also a major contributor. Mainly I'm pleased that mcdermd has hooked me up with a domain that I don't have to pay for, and can upload corrections any time of the day via SFTP (I use FileZilla under OS X).

 

The Guide itself is actually about 95% "done". I haven't found any good articles or how-tos for n00bs on how to telnet, I think that would be a great addition. The 7.5.3 Network Access Disk is a major priority. (Might make a short section on making a bootable CD, since a lot of Macs post-7.5.3 came with built-in CD drives.) Aside from that, I just need to add some finding on what is the minimum version of AppleShare that System 6, 7, 9, 10.2.8/10.3.9 will connect to. We believe it is AppleShare Workstation 1.1 on a 512K, but it's...being worked on. A few other addons, corrections here and there, and it could be good to go for a while.

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I got my SE on the internet via FTP with MacTCP 2.0.6 and Fetch 2.1.2. Works like a charm.

 

All I did was install the Asante driver for my nic.

Configure MacTCP to use Ethernet (provided by the Asante driver)

Set my IP to Manual, punch in my gateway and DNS addresses (setting Domain name to "."), and manually enter an IP address

Install and run Fetch.

 

I connected to my webiste no problem and was able to get/put files.

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I'm pleased you could do that. :)

 

On the other side, whoever wrote Fetch 2.1.2 needs a heap of cookies. Even today I'd pay the developers $20 for that thing. That is some good software. As I say in the Guide, it runs under System 6, is a FAT binary, fits on an 800K disk, works great with black and white 9" displays, and yeah. It's a really neat program.

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Major additions:

 

  1. Revised the Compatibility list. Even after I wrote it, came back two months later, I marveled at how unintelligible it was. Too confusing. So now we have a CHART! with color! (sort of) It could use some helpful hints on the Linux part...
  2. We're toying around with old AppleShare versions. There's a section now there under the LocalTalk section in the More Info division. It's under construction currently, as...there's a lot of details to cover. (I for one lack the hardware :disapprove: )
  3. Added more info in the Disk Images section. I don't know but I couldn't get Rawrite or those fancy tools to work under XP. So I spun it around to suggest that the user make a Linux USB thumbdrive with Netatalk on it (which is what the media does, but mine is actually a really good idea).
  4. Tweaks and corrections. It just gets better and better! As always, I'd welcome tutorials on Windows 2000/2003 SFM, using telnet, building Netatalk (at least better than I wrote), if you have any real good Apple // stuff I think that could tacked on.

 

So yeah it's coming along.

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I just made a little...discovery!

 

I found the applet MiniFinder tucked away in System 4.4/Finder 5.5. What a cool idea, once you figure how it works. The best news? It works with System 6! I'm using Mini vMac right now.

 

I suppose I'll have to go back and revise those 800K System 6 Networking disks with this...BETTER minifinder. It only takes 4K on disk, can start the regular finder with one button. Neat. Wonder if it'll work with System 7...

 

Edit: No...although I'd like to try it on the real hardware.

Edit2: Here it is in use:

 

th_43118a07.png

 

HUH? That's a real head scratcher..."Install the MiniFinder using..." ???? Anyways I found it odd that if you closed the folder (in this case System Folder) containing an item you view the Info on (like MiniFinder) then the Get Info window also closes. :-/

 

th_0a510b1e.png

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Picked up an SE FDHD this past Friday and thus it was time to make some changes!

 

1.) Fixed up the Older AppleShare Versions section, made possible by the recent conquest.

2.) Added an image in the MacTCP section making a quick note about Access Privileges.

3.) Forgot to update the date of revision at the bottom. Oh well next time

4.) It has more pictures!

5.) Revisions to mention the Pre System 6 era stuff.

6.) The Chart has been tweaked a bit, but I imagine it's going to have that tidy little note near the top for a LONG time...

7.) The only things I know that are left to do on my list is to muck around with 7.0/7.1/7.5.3 network access disks. Telnet access...is interesting...but I don't know how long it'll be before I make headway on that. Windows SFM -- same thing.

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Mk.558, thanks for putting all this info together! I tried making a 7.1 NAD, but I haven't been successful. I was wondering if you had some pointers on how to make one. What I would like to do is be able to connect to the internet to use bbraun's excellent HTTP Disk. I am not too interested in AppleTalk functionality ATM, so if those components can be spared, it might help to provide more room. I am running an SE/30 with an Asante MacCon PDS ethernet card.

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When I get my SE/30 boards back I will look into it. I'm mainly interested in a 7.5.3NAD.

 

I guess I could try it with the SE FDHD I have on hand but it's got only 1MB of RAM.

 

One problem with 7.1 is that there are a good number of installations meant for specific hardware platforms. So you won't be able to do like what I did and build a 6.0.8 Universal Network Access Disk. A 7.5.3 NAD will have to be split up into a 68K and a PPC version.

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Updated again:

 

- Added a link in the Links section about the HTTP Disk. I might try that someday. It'd be real cute if it worked with System 6.

- Got the date updated right this time!

- Updated the Disk Images section.

- Put a mention about AAUI in the Hardware section.

 

Looking better all the time!

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I may have missed it, but after going through the guide, I don't really have a good sense of what each component being installed is used for and if it is optional or not for a given scenario. If I just want to access http/ftp without AppleTalk or AppleShare, etc, what components become unnecessary for a System 7 installation? I tried some experiments with a System 7.1 Disk Tools system folder, but I get the sense that system file is too neutered to get the networking aspects working properly.

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To be honest I have not tried such a minimal install yet, but I'm sure I wouldn't mind.

 

If you'd like to access HTTP or FTP, you could try it over serial protocols and terminal software like zTerm, or telnet. I have no idea how to setup and use telnet software (most articles just assume you know how to use it). For System 7/7.1, NSI 1.5.1 is a requirement to install the ethernet drivers and networking base. AppleShare is simply for AppleTalk based networking, and HTTP/FTP doesn't relate to any of it. MacTCP is required; or you could try PPP over the serial ports, sort of a pseudo-dialup setup, which reminds me to PM someone here who's done it, as it is yet another way of networking.

 

If you wanted to try the MacTCP setup, try taking a 7.1DT System Folder and pluck it off the DT disk; use a hard disk as your "scratch media". Install NSI 1.5.1 on it, then copy over MacTCP onto it. Set up MacTCP, start an FTP server on an OS X Mac, then try to FTP into it with Fetch 2.1.2. I don't think there is enough space on 1.44MB to fit Fetch on; you could also try setting up the Personal Web Server and attempting to use the HTTP Disk thing.

 

Mainly the guide is meant for AFP type networking, the rest is supplementary.

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This is going to be interesting since I have made a few small tweaks here and there over the past five or so months without really keeping track of what I did...

 

  • Added a screenshot for Oxyd 3.9. That game doesn't work well with screenshot utilities or Cmd+Shift+3. So I used SheepShaver, and that game is practically unusable in emulators (bombs minivMac, ball is uncontrollable in Basilisk II and SheepShaver).
  • Added a short section to cover the Amiga. Short version: tricky. Definitely worse off than Windows 98 networking, or the like.
  • Changed the Terminal line for writing OS X floppies to add a sudo prefix. 10.4 doesn't need it though, but...not everybody runs 10.4 anymore.
  • Things have been tweaked here and there but I've lost track of it!

 

I'm working on securing a copy of Windows Server 2000 for a demo of SFM, and we'll conduct testing to find out what is the scope and capabilities of it. Server 2003 is too expensive at this time.

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More things:

 

  • Split up the Supplemental Information and FTP sections into a different page.
  • Added notes about Apple II networking.
  • Added a Word about Emulators. (Doesn't talk about the Classic Environment.)
  • There's a empty link in the second page on the header for Serial Data to remind myself to deal with it. First I have to deal with W2K SFM.
  • Cleaned up some of the notes for The Chart.
  • Added a section about IRC. Just a short demo with Homer 0.94 and a freenode server.
  • Fixed up the main image on the main page. The More Info page has a separate image and a link back to the main page.

 

More to come -- in awhile. :)

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