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New Accelerator for Apple II-series soon available!

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Yeah I doubt they will be making anymore of those. I sorta need an ethernet card because I intend to develop a GS-IRC client and I need one to test the program out.

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Yeah I doubt they will be making anymore of those. I sorta need an ethernet card because I intend to develop a GS-IRC client and I need one to test the program out.

He’s working on more right now. I’m on his email list, and he sent out an update a few days ago.

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He’s working on more right now. I’m on his email list, and he sent out an update a few days ago.

 

I emailed him. I have two programs I want to write. GS-IRC and GS-FTP...yup - smacks lips- that is what i want to do....

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I sorta need an ethernet card because I intend to develop a GS-IRC client and I need one to test the program out.

 

Do you intend to target the Marinetti TCP/IP stack? Possibly worth nothing: Marinetti supposedly has support for MacIP protocol over Localtalk. I have no idea how well it works but I did muck around with it briefly and found it did at least *appear* to be picking up an IP from the MacIP bridge software that was running on my Raspberry Pi. (Didn't get much further because when I toyed with it my IIgs basically didn't have enough RAM to run anything but the stack.) If you want to muck with it yourself Localtalk->Ethernet bridges are pretty cheap. And, of course, you also have the option of using PPP or SLIP.

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OK

 

Do you intend to target the Marinetti TCP/IP stack? Possibly worth nothing: Marinetti supposedly has support for MacIP protocol over Localtalk. I have no idea how well it works but I did muck around with it briefly and found it did at least *appear* to be picking up an IP from the MacIP bridge software that was running on my Raspberry Pi. (Didn't get much further because when I toyed with it my IIgs basically didn't have enough RAM to run anything but the stack.) If you want to muck with it yourself Localtalk->Ethernet bridges are pretty cheap. And, of course, you also have the option of using PPP or SLIP.

 

I have a question about the localtalk->ethernet bridge concept....do I have access to the internet via tcp/ip concept? Can I hook my apple //gs directly to the router and poof I can login? Does it see the IP address and gateway? Would I be able to ftp and do irc through it? If so..where can I find the hardware you speak? Does marinetti support it and works with it easily? How does it work exactly?

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I have a question about the localtalk->ethernet bridge concept....do I have access to the internet via tcp/ip concept? Can I hook my apple //gs directly to the router and poof I can login? Does it see the IP address and gateway? Would I be able to ftp and do irc through it? If so..where can I find the hardware you speak? Does marinetti support it and works with it easily? How does it work exactly?

 

Okay, I get it, you're not interested.

 

(And answers starting from the top are roughly: "yes, if you have the routing set up", "no, unless you're using some pretty obscure hardware/software solutions for your router already", "yes, if MacIP routing is set up on your network", "if software exists for Marinetti that does those things, presumably", "on ebay, or theslownorris has a couple listed for sale here", "here is an account of marinetti's MacIP support working with a Gatorbox, a common hardware MacIP router so, yes, it works and "'easily' is slippery word, see the last answer", and "MacIP is a method for encapsulating TCP/IP inside of Appletalk packets, which was commonly used back in the day to get classic Macintosh Localtalk networks onto the Internet. You need an Appletalk router to do this; there are hardware ones like GatorBoxes or a few old Cisco routers, or a software one. There is software that runs on real macs, so if you have an old Mac you can use that for both the router and the Ethernet/Localtalk bridge. Otherwise you can pair software like macipgw, which can run on Linux or xBSD and is available in pre-built VMs with the hardware ethernet-localtalk bridge, which *only* bridges Appletalk-format packets without any protocol translation and leave the TCP packing/unpacking to the router software.")

 

But, again, whatever.

 

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I think there is a huge miscommunication here and what are you thinking is completely different than what I was thinking. I just felt like I entered a twilight zone and go about and say "What just happened here?".

 

@_@. Interested in what exactly? I offended you how exactly? How am I a bad person again? And what in the blazes are you talking about? I am trying to communicate in English here but I doubt there was anything close to that language here.

 

All I want is a hardware that hook my apple //gs to the internet via ethernet and tcp/ip. If it requires me to have 4 year degree of bachelor of apple //gs and then another 3 years to have a master to do it..then that is fine with me...I will not bother with network and just enjoy watching people do it on youtube and always ask how they did it and why I can't do it. I mean I am ok doing it this way also, really. I am fine with it.

Edited by xboxown

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I think there is a huge miscommunication here and what are you thinking is completely different than what I was thinking. I just felt like I entered a twilight zone and go about and say "What just happened here?"

 

I apologize. The problem with plain-text communication like this is that occasionally the same text can be dramatically misinterpreted in tone, and apparently I took your excitement as sarcasm. Seriously, if it wasn't meant that way, I'm sorry. So I'll start over, kind of.

 

 

All I want is a hardware that hook my apple //gs to the internet via ethernet and tcp/ip. If it requires me to have 4 year degree of bachelor of apple //gs and then another 3 years to have a master to do it..then that is fine with me...I will not bother with network and just enjoy watching people do it on youtube and always ask how they did it and why I can't do it. I mean I am ok doing it this way also, really. I am fine with it.

 

 

Per my unnecessarily cranky answers above: using a MacIP router plus some sort of Ethernet to Localtalk bridge is the closest thing you can come to having an IIgs just "plugged into the network" short of one of the extremely rare Apple II ethernet cards. The downside is that it isn't a self-contained solution: you need some other widget in the mix, the specialized router, to handle the TCP/IP encapsulation/decapsulation.  (The reason I interpreted your reply as sarcastic is I thought you were coming down on me for suggesting it *because* you knew that it has that external dependency and were making it clear that any solution that wasn't completely contained inside the IIgs was unacceptable.)

 

If you're fine with that dependency then, well, if you're looking to write native IIgs software (IE, using the GS/OS graphical user interface instead of something self-contained like Contiki) the programming interface (IE, the Marinetti TCP/IP stack) is the same. Therefore if you used this setup instead of Uthernet card to write your software your programs *should* also work for someone using an Uthernet. (Or PPP, or SLIP, or whatever other link-layer drivers the stack supports.) Using a bridge instead of Uthernet also has some non-TCP-related advantages; for instance, there is no Appleshare driver for Uthernet, which means you can't use Macintosh file sharing protocols. The Apple IIgs and GS/OS actually has excellent Appletalk support built into it, including the ability to boot over a network, and there exists a wonderful easy-to-use software bundle to make use of it.(*) Therefore, even if you're not interested in TCP/IP at all a localtalk bridge can be really useful if you're a IIgs owner.

 

(* Note also: the latest versions of A2SERVER can automatically set up MacIP on Rasbian and Debian, although I can't personally vouch for it yet. So if you set up A2SERVER you might get your MacIP router for free.)

 

The going price for the bridges is still only about $20-$30, so even if you buy a Raspberry Pi solely to dedicate to your IIgs the cost is still less than an Uthernet card, if you can find one. Downside is you need to learn some stuff about MacIP network routing to get it going. If you think you're up for the challenge by all means go for it, don't let my mistaken crankiness discourage you. Again, many apologies.

 

(When I get some free time I'm intending to fire my IIgs up again and play with it myself, but until then unfortunately I can't be a whole lot more clear on the specifics of what works and what doesn't on the IIgs end. I know I was having issues in part because a standard 1.25MB ROM 01 IIgs just doesn't have enough RAM to load all the software stacks needed for NetBoot/Appletalk *and* TCP/IP and leave enough left over to run anything useful. If you're really interested in programming TCP/IP on a IIgs you'll probably want at least 2MB of RAM.)

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I don't want to use contiki or anything like that..I only want to write native //gs software that is dependent or need GS/OS graphic user interface and need the tcp/ip connected from within the gs/os (whatever driver etc) and it is an OS application and not outside the OS application. I want Marinetti TCP/IP. I want to be able to go inside the GS/OS...go to the setting, click tcp/ip..click connect..it connects...then write an application inside the GS/OS with GUI and everything and call it GS-IRC that access the network through GS/OS, Marinetti TCP./IP if this is the one that does the job.

 

I don't want a bridge. I want tcp/ip. What I want is an Uthernert card and tcp/ip configuration like I do with windows or heck even Amiga.

 

Concerning the RAM issue...I will not tackle the programming yet until I have completed all my hardware purchases. I still need to buy the MicroDrive CompactFlash and finally a 4 MB RAM expansion. Also I do want to buy the uthernet and login to the internet in the native environment of the GS/OS and full GUI in everything and start coding there. I didn't realize there is already an ftp for gs called safe2. So I am going to install that into my GS and also there is an outlook express like program for the //gs for GS/OS I want to configure that and get my emails in there so i can read them from my apple //gs.

 

The amount of .....pleasure......release of pleasure chemical in my brain when i do this...is unbareable and make me ever so much more want to write serious and useful application for GS/OS. I want Apple //gs to compete against Mac 68k and I want to write very useful application for the GS/OS. I have downloaded 1 GB worth of pdf all about how to program for the Apple //gs.

 

I am going serious mode here. Honestly, I was not even understanding half what you said before so there is no way I will be sarcastic to something i don't even understand to be able to be sarcastic about. I just want a network solution for my Apple //gs to be able to go online inside the GS/OS using tcp/ip using the GS/OS GUI much like I do with windows or linux and then go online that way.

 

Three programs I want to write for the Apple //gs:

 

A) System friendly ftp program where even if you run the ftp program you can still run accessories and do whatever you want in the desktop of gs/os.

 

B ) System friendly IRC client program. You can switch windows between it and the FTP...you can chat inside the GS/OS environment and still do ftp stuff at the same time. I want to see what modern features we use now in ftp and try as much as possible to mimic it for the GS/OS.

 

C) Write a movie player with it's own format and be system friendly for the GS/OS <-- If I have to...I may need an accelerator to make this happen..which is why I am in this topic...want to pre-order or buy an accelerator.  By the way, don't say it cannot be done. It can be done. Commodore 64 already have it's own video format and runs movies in 16 color...what I will have is a 16 bit application gs-slider (I call the application slider) and it will use 256 colors or 4096 colors if possible to play movies verses the limitation the commodore 64 have when playing movies only in 16 colors. I want to know what hardware limitation when it comes to //gs when displaying how many colors per picture and use the maximum number of colors to play movies.

 

I know I said 3 but I have extra I just remembered to add them here in the list

 

D) In the future I want to write GS/OS network games like sudoko, bagammon etc I want to do the same for Amiga actually. It will be the same game ported for Amiga and //gs and you should be able to play cross platform between the system

 

E) I also want to write a skype like program for the GS. It will have emoticon gifs display and you chat with people back and forth and add friends like skype but no video or audio support. Only because there is hardware limitation behind it.

 

I am doing all of this because I am hoping it will bring fresh new blood to the community and make the Apple //gs shine the way it should have shined. I have no doubt that the //gs is even more superior than the mac 68k in all regard....I would say //gs is really psuedo mac and because it is mac system..I see no reason why it can't give you everything a mac could including and up to photoshop program. And no...I am not being sarcastic here!

 

By the way that is why I am so happy my apple //gs is rom03! It is a ROM fit for gs/os and that is what I want!

Edited by xboxown

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I don't want a bridge. I want tcp/ip. What I want is an Uthernert card and tcp/ip configuration like I do with windows or heck even Amiga.

 

Not to belabor the point, but "TCP/IP", strictly speaking, doesn't have anything to do with Ethernet, other than Ethernet happens to be the most common physical layer it runs on. Marinetti running MacIP on Localtalk is just as "real" a TCP/IP stack as anything else. (TCP/IP also runs on various serial link layers, IBM Token Ring, Arcnet, and any number of other obsolete network hardware protocols. I didn't list WiFi here because it can be *mostly* thought of as Ethernet-over-Wireless, but strictly speaking even that isn't entirely true.) When you use MacIP as the link layer in Marinetti you get a TCP/IP control panel that looks essentially the same as the one presented to you when you use Ethernet, and to software running on top of the stack the connectivity looks exactly the same.

 

But, sure, if the work to get the MacIP router set up sounds too difficult then by all means pursue the option you think you can handle.

 

 

I am doing all of this because I am hoping it will bring fresh new blood to the community and make the Apple //gs shine the way it should have shined. I have no doubt that the //gs is even more superior than the mac 68k in all regard....I would say //gs is really psuedo mac and because it is mac system..I see no reason why it can't give you everything a mac could including and up to photoshop program. And no...I am not being sarcastic here!

 

It seems a bit counterproductive to scorn the most accessible route to getting TCP/IP on an Apple IIgs then, if your goal is to encourage wider enthusiasm in the platform but again, sure, whatever floats your boat.

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It is not really scorn..more along the line of wanting everything looking pweaty in gs/os.

 

There is just something about that OS that make my saliva foam and I......I lose all control! I want MORE GS/OS APPS...MORE MORE MORE MORE...MORE GS/OS GAMES inside the GS environment....more! i don't think I can have enough....I am like pacman who want to eat those pills...more and more

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It is not really scorn..more along the line of wanting everything looking pweaty in gs/os.

But it all looks the same in GS/OS regardless of what link layer you're using to get it access to the network. The only difference is what kind of wire comes out of the back of the computer and whether it crosses another box or two before it gets to the Internet.

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But it all looks the same in GS/OS regardless of what link layer you're using to get it access to the network. The only difference is what kind of wire comes out of the back of the computer and whether it crosses another box or two before it gets to the Internet.

 

 

k. So be it. I will go to your approach then. Can you send me link of pictures of how it look like and I will get the hardware online via ebay? But I don't want to use raspberry though...can I use my PC or something beside raspberry pi...do I really need raspberry pi for this? Sorry if you have already answered all of that but all that text went out of my head..the termonliogy made me have a headache. Seriously, treat me like a 3 year old here and take me through it step by step. Like this:

 

Step 1:

 

<information, link> in one or two lines...

 

I do step 1 I update you...you take me to step 2:

 

and so on.

 

Pretty much hold my hand on this...

Edited by xboxown

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Well this do?

That is an ethernet card for a NuBus Mac so, no, it's not of much interest to a IIgs owner.

 

I think you've convinced me that this solution has too many moving parts for you. If I ever get around to writing up a IIgs MacIP howto (or maybe someone else on the forum knows a good one that already exists) I'll try to make a point of putting a link to it somewhere.

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For development purposes, the GSport emulator supports an Uthernet card in slot 3. Support has been tested with Marinetti under GS/OS and Contiki. It can also connect via MacIP (if you have a gateway available) using the built-in Appletalk emulation, but that has a bit of a learning curve to setup.

 

AppleWin also supports the Uthernet in slot 3 if you are exclusively targeting 8-bit environments.

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That is an ethernet card for a NuBus Mac so, no, it's not of much interest to a IIgs owner.

 

I think you've convinced me that this solution has too many moving parts for you. If I ever get around to writing up a IIgs MacIP howto (or maybe someone else on the forum knows a good one that already exists) I'll try to make a point of putting a link to it somewhere.

 

 

Thank you! Because I am still...uuuuuuuuuuuh....have no idea what you are talking about and how do I go about doing it and I am afraid I might fry my baby thinking I am doing something correct when I am not. I need either a video or lots and lots of pictures with big letter step by step in doing this. You are aware from the past previous pages and up to now I have no idea what you are talking about and I feel like you are talking chinese with me and all I feel is just piled up frustration.

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For development purposes, the GSport emulator supports an Uthernet card in slot 3. Support has been tested with Marinetti under GS/OS and Contiki. It can also connect via MacIP (if you have a gateway available) using the built-in Appletalk emulation, but that has a bit of a learning curve to setup.

 

AppleWin also supports the Uthernet in slot 3 if you are exclusively targeting 8-bit environments.

 

I have no interest in applewin or 8 bit support. I am going 16 bit GS/OS exclusive.  If there is a video that shows me how to do it and the guy grabs the hardware and zoom into the hardware and mentions the name of the hardware and so on and then show me detail in how to configure network in apple //gs then that would superb.

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So unbearable.  I want to get one (or two!) before Thanksgiving. :O

 

Signed up for the email.  I feel like a little kid now, checking my mail every day to see if he has one in stock.  [:D]]'>

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I realized that when you exploit the apple //gs custom chipset to the max and produce good graphical games they match bar identical to the console super nintendo and some in beauty and quality much like arcade machines you see in stores. Shame such sweet computer did not get the attention it truly deserved.

 

I am hoping with all hopes that if this accelerator does become reality we will see new 2017-2018 games for apple //gs 16 bit exclusive titles that push it to the limit and make people go WOW!

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I realized that when you exploit the apple //gs custom chipset to the max...

Point of order: Yes, you can make very *pretty* games for the IIgs (it has a wider color palette than the Atari ST and it's kinda-sorta easier to get more colors on the screen at once than Amiga because it has multiple palette registers; Amiga has HAM, but that's hard to use for non-static images), but that's pretty much the extent of the tricks available. The IIgs has no sprites, no blitters, no hardware scrolling, etc. Technical breakdown here.

 

An accelerator certainly does make it capable of better things than a stock machine, but let's be realistic.

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Point of order: Yes, you can make very *pretty* games for the IIgs (it has a wider color palette than the Atari ST and it's kinda-sorta easier to get more colors on the screen at once than Amiga because it has multiple palette registers; Amiga has HAM, but that's hard to use for non-static images), but that's pretty much the extent of the tricks available. The IIgs has no sprites, no blitters, no hardware scrolling, etc. Technical breakdown here.

 

An accelerator certainly does make it capable of better things than a stock machine, but let's be realistic.

 

I am going to read that article when I go home. You said let's be realistic because of lack of programmers? By the way. Just so you know. Someone can add an accelerator graphics hardware that uses the exact same apple //gs famous graphics output, composite or rgb etc but add missing features such as sprites, blitter, hardware scrolling, etc as a new hardware fpga or whatnot upgrade for the apple //gs. You get to enjoy the way apple //gs display colors and whatever make it different than the other system but just add missing features in the hardware for graphics output and possibly increase the speed of the graphics from 1 Mhz to say for example 14 Mhz for better performance. Yet you still can get the graphics outputted either through composite port or rgb port.

 

I see no reason why not. 

Edited by xboxown

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I am going to read that article when I go home. You said let's be realistic because of lack of programmers?

No, I said "be realistic" because it's really something of a stretch to suggest that the IIgs would be such an AMAZING platform if-only-it-had-a-faster-CPU that there'd be oodles of reasons for people to flock to it. Adding an accelerator is basically just a brute-force way of working around the IIgs' fundamentally weak graphics chipset; if you're super-optimistic you could say that it puts it level with its competition, it doesn't make it better.

 

 

 

By the way. Just so you know. Someone can add an accelerator graphics hardware that uses the exact same apple //gs famous graphics output, composite or rgb etc but add missing features such as sprites, blitter, hardware scrolling, etc as a new hardware fpga or whatnot upgrade for the apple //gs.

 

Famous? I only said that it has a bigger palette than the Atari ST (IE, it's 12 bit instead of 9 bit, which ironically would mostly would make it noticeably better at displaying *grayscale* images) and a couple obscure features that make it kinda-sorta better at a very limited set of tasks compared to its generally superior rivals. There's nothing about its video output that's super-magically-honey-sweet compared to any other system of that era; the quality of its TV/CGA-resolution analog RGB output stacks up pretty evenly compared to systems as pathetic as the $219 Tandy Color Computer 3(*1). In short, it's nice for a home computer built in 1986, but looks kind of like garbage compared even to 1987's VGA.(*2)

 

As to making some sort of graphics accelerator for it that adds sprites and blitters and whatever, sure, it's certainly technically possible that someone could do something like that... but why? It wouldn't be compatible with any existing IIgs software, so for a potential programmer your already tiny target audience of people-with-Apple IIgs-es-equipped-with-CPU-accelerators would shrink further to the subset of those who've also bought this graphics card.

 

Realistically speaking, if what you want is a IIgs with gaming-oriented graphics accelerator they already made one. It looks like this:

 

640px-SNES-Mod1-Console-Set.jpg

 

Footnotes.

 

(*1) Sadly there are people that would make the case that the 6809 in the CoCo3 is a better CPU than the IIgs' 65C816. Nobody made any version of it that clocked much faster than 2mhz, though.

 

(*2) I'll take non-interlaced 640x480 over 640x200 for productivity programs any day; the GS/OS desktop in particular is a real eyeball scorcher. And VGA had 320x200 in 256-simultaneous-colors-out-of-262,144 *on the whole screen* vs. the IIgs's 320x200 in 16-colors-per-line-chosen-from-16-possible-palettes-chosen-from-4096-colors for games.)

 

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I am literally laughing and giggling at your post  [ :D[:D]]'>  [:D]]'>  [:D]]'> But can I say something?  [8D] You are right! Everything you posted above is 100% right and me laughing is not at you but more at how you put the words together hit me in the funny bone :D. You are right again about the colors of the apple //gs and how it displays GS/OS and that it is real eyeball scrocher and as for "garbage" graphics of the Apple //gs? You are right again! To me that is what makes it magical for me! That! :D

 

Any time I want to go into chaos and garbage graphics and colors fix after usage of perfect and clear and HDMI graphics...I can always go back to my trusted Apple //gs and enjoy the primitiveness of it and take me to simplicity world. I use the Apple //gs and it puts me in the same as someone sitting in nature and hearing the gentle flow of water stream. 

 

:D Ones I am done with my superior Amiga and enjoyed Playstation 4 and PC game, I go back to Apple //gs for that feeling it brings me.  [:)]]'>

 

I am craving for apple //gs games by the way, new ones so I can get the fuzzy little kid of the 1980's with his new toy! By the way about the SNES part, yes you are right there too! But what makes me really jumping with joy and enter super fuzzy feeling is to get snes like games on my Apple //gs. This way I can hit two birds with one stone. I know it s fantasy.

Edited by xboxown

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