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#1 Cory5412

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:46 PM

Of late, I've come across two things that would make great wiki pages.

 

This thread is mostly for me to keep track of those things to either ultimately write them or ask for them to be written.

 

Right now, the wiki is in "OK but not great" shape and the long-term 

 

The first is documenting the RAM speeds in Wombat motherboards.

In particular: What is the RAM speed on the Quadra 800, Q650, and 25/33MHz C650s.

 

The second is information about booting from USB on PowerPC Macs.

In particular, what models can boot from USB, what OSes can they boot, and if necessary what commands are needed.

 

Older, but also relevant: Mac hardware and OS disk limit information and testing.

Most of the information is gathered, but it would be nice for it to be a page rather than a post in the middle of a thread.

 

I still haven't played with the Pages functionality, but we do have it.

 

Please feel free to add more ideas especially if you see forum threads that should be captured or rewritten as articles or anything that doesn't exist yet but would be good reference information.



#2 Themk

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:49 PM

I will write the RAM speeds in Wombat motherboards.

 

But, the million dollar question is this: Wiki, or IPBoard Pages.


Edited by Themk, 16 June 2017 - 07:50 PM.

Macintosh SE SuperDrive, Macintosh SE/30, Apple IIgs ROM3, ImageWriterBanger II.

Currently building the amazing 68040! Performa (Quadra??!!) 638CD gets 40MHz full '040 [;)] , Ethernet, 136MB RAM, AV input card, and maybe something else. Should have performance comparable to the Quadra 840av when done! (A/UX doesn't work, but I still like this little guy right here: [:P] )


#3 Cory5412

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 08:08 PM

IPBoard Pages is the way to go. I need to speak with ulterior to determine whether we want to make any more changes to the wiki for now or if the best strategy is to just write the info in that thread and transcribe it or promote the post to a page (if possible) later.



#4 Themk

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 08:36 PM

Okay, Sounds good. My only concerns have to do with what I outlined in a post I made back in the thread we were discussing RAM speeds in. I can access the pages module, so, it shouldn't be a big deal.

 

EDIT: Okay, I created a basic article, it seems to have submitted fine. I get a message, however, saying

"The article has been added, however it must be approved before it will be visible".

 

Let me know how it works out.

 
 

Edited by Themk, 16 June 2017 - 08:39 PM.

Macintosh SE SuperDrive, Macintosh SE/30, Apple IIgs ROM3, ImageWriterBanger II.

Currently building the amazing 68040! Performa (Quadra??!!) 638CD gets 40MHz full '040 [;)] , Ethernet, 136MB RAM, AV input card, and maybe something else. Should have performance comparable to the Quadra 840av when done! (A/UX doesn't work, but I still like this little guy right here: [:P] )


#5 Themk

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 08:40 PM

promote the post to a page (if possible) later.

 

Yes, that is possible to do with IP.Board


Macintosh SE SuperDrive, Macintosh SE/30, Apple IIgs ROM3, ImageWriterBanger II.

Currently building the amazing 68040! Performa (Quadra??!!) 638CD gets 40MHz full '040 [;)] , Ethernet, 136MB RAM, AV input card, and maybe something else. Should have performance comparable to the Quadra 840av when done! (A/UX doesn't work, but I still like this little guy right here: [:P] )


#6 Cory5412

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:04 PM

I'll have to take a look. It's not "on" and we're not using it right now. I think that a conversation needs to be had (and as of right now I don't know with whom) about what we want "68kmla.org" to look like when people show up. I don't know if we want the forum to appear first or a sort of landing page that shows recent blog/forum/article content, or something else.



#7 Themk

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:14 PM

 I think that a conversation needs to be had (and as of right now I don't know with whom) about what we want "68kmla.org" to look like when people show up.

It's funny you should mention that, as I was thinking today how 68kmla.org takes you straight to 68kmla.org/forums/. The forums are the main deal of the site at the moment. Yeah, that will be certinally an interesting conversation.


Macintosh SE SuperDrive, Macintosh SE/30, Apple IIgs ROM3, ImageWriterBanger II.

Currently building the amazing 68040! Performa (Quadra??!!) 638CD gets 40MHz full '040 [;)] , Ethernet, 136MB RAM, AV input card, and maybe something else. Should have performance comparable to the Quadra 840av when done! (A/UX doesn't work, but I still like this little guy right here: [:P] )


#8 IPalindromeI

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:32 PM

I think there's bit of an element of the wiki being neglected because of poor integration into the site technically, and socially; this is often because the primary medium for the site becomes the only de facto medium. Even if forum stickies are a bad way to archive info relative to a wiki, people will still use it unless there are governance or social changes.
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#9 Themk

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:42 PM

Yes, that is possible to do with IP.Board

 

It's funny, but, browsing around on this very site, it apears as if some default content was put in there by the default installation.

 

https://68kmla.org/f...-to-articles-r1


Macintosh SE SuperDrive, Macintosh SE/30, Apple IIgs ROM3, ImageWriterBanger II.

Currently building the amazing 68040! Performa (Quadra??!!) 638CD gets 40MHz full '040 [;)] , Ethernet, 136MB RAM, AV input card, and maybe something else. Should have performance comparable to the Quadra 840av when done! (A/UX doesn't work, but I still like this little guy right here: [:P] )


#10 Cory5412

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:46 PM

Yes, there's definitely content in there. A few people have put in articles by mistake, instead of posts in a subforum. I looked at the article you submitted and realize there appears to be no built-in way to handle tables.

 

This will be a pain if we decide to bother to migrate things like, say, machine data. I'm almost tempted to say we shouldn't bother trying to be a spec database, but it may make sense to have a profile or aggregation page for each machine. (For example, we'd link the Wombat Board Memory Specs page from the C/Q650 and Q800 pages.)

 

Mediawiki is pretty clearly a better tool, but I'm willing to give up a better tool for something that'll create better culture.

 

That said -- the copy of IPBoard I downloaded for testing is version 4.2 and we're on version 3 still, so this could all change for the much better once we do that upgrade.



#11 Themk

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:53 PM


Mediawiki is pretty clearly a better tool, but I'm willing to give up a better tool for something that'll create better culture.

 

Yeah, I'm not totally sure. There are a few problems with the wiki, first being that there are separate user accounts, making it difficult for many people to access it, that have accounts on the forums side of the thing (such as me). It's pretty removed, you have to click the wiki tab, or type in wiki.68kmla.org manually, but the IPBoard pages module is also pretty far removed, at least the way it's currently configured. I'm not very good with the social aspect of a lot of things, so, I'm not sure how to make it more inclusive with the culture of this website. Maybe there is a plugin for IPBoard that allows for better formatting options. Or, at least, you could allow raw HTML data to be pasted in. At least in that case I could make just a simple table.


Macintosh SE SuperDrive, Macintosh SE/30, Apple IIgs ROM3, ImageWriterBanger II.

Currently building the amazing 68040! Performa (Quadra??!!) 638CD gets 40MHz full '040 [;)] , Ethernet, 136MB RAM, AV input card, and maybe something else. Should have performance comparable to the Quadra 840av when done! (A/UX doesn't work, but I still like this little guy right here: [:P] )


#12 Cory5412

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 11:14 PM

Right now, the Invision Pages module is explicitly configured to be hidden or not have anything available. I think the idea is that we're still discussing what's happening.

 

I was able to get a test Invision 4 installation going on a laptop and I think we should be able to create a home page that has a listing of forums and also a list of, say, recent articles, but I'll look more closely.

 

Really, the formatting is the big problems.

 

You discovered that it doesn't make it easy for table data to be put in, and we can't do anything like a page that has its own sidebar, which might be good on a machine aggregation page.

 

I'll keep looking.



#13 jack

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 09:53 PM

I was just thinking, it couldn't hurt to have a retr0bright FAQ on the wiki. It seems questions about it come up a lot around here.


Macs: Plus, SE (x2), IIci, LC II (x2), Classic, Classic II (x2), PB 520, PM 6100, iMac G3 (x2), iLamp G4, iBook G3 Clamshell (x3), iBook G3 Snow, and a big stack of iBook G4's.

Other stuff: Apple IIgs, Sun Ultra 10, ImageBanger II (too many), and plenty of old DOS/Windows machines.


#14 Themk

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 08:39 PM

Sure, there is a lot of information that could be added to the Wiki (or whatever they happen to decide to use).

 

For example, there are a LOT of stickied threads, that would be better off as Wiki articles.


Edited by Themk, 18 June 2017 - 08:40 PM.

Macintosh SE SuperDrive, Macintosh SE/30, Apple IIgs ROM3, ImageWriterBanger II.

Currently building the amazing 68040! Performa (Quadra??!!) 638CD gets 40MHz full '040 [;)] , Ethernet, 136MB RAM, AV input card, and maybe something else. Should have performance comparable to the Quadra 840av when done! (A/UX doesn't work, but I still like this little guy right here: [:P] )


#15 jack

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 11:02 PM

Regarding what could be done for the site & pages, I think that this site could severely benefit from having it's own custom software. There's a number of advantages you could take into account with that:

  • Data export not only from the current site, but also from the stitz archives
  • A LoFi interface accessible, you know, for browsing on old macs (http://lofi.68kmla.org??)
  • A nice custom look
  • Reduced forum spam (since it's a custom interface)
  • Wiki pages, forum all under same account
  • anything our mind imagines

I've been doing quite a bit of web development in Python lately, and would be willing to take on such a project with the help of maybe a few other members. And... if all goes well, we could open source it as a free forum system that does not need crap like PHP (I only get to say this because I've got years of PHP experience, and I still think it's darned awful).


Macs: Plus, SE (x2), IIci, LC II (x2), Classic, Classic II (x2), PB 520, PM 6100, iMac G3 (x2), iLamp G4, iBook G3 Clamshell (x3), iBook G3 Snow, and a big stack of iBook G4's.

Other stuff: Apple IIgs, Sun Ultra 10, ImageBanger II (too many), and plenty of old DOS/Windows machines.


#16 Cory5412

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:16 AM

The thing I'll say is that we chose our dinner and we're going to be eating it for a few more years. Outside of tables, which there are ways to avoid, the software we are using (and the new versions we have yet to update to) do a really good job at controlling spam, adding functionality under the same account (gallery, for example), and we'd been planning a new theme, but that hasn't happened.

 

The tables thing is a bit of a bummer, but I don't know if there's anything else that would really have done better. It's not like we could easily have imported the user/post data from phpBB3 to SharePoint. 

 

The example to look at here is probably Low End Mac. Their page isn't the best, but I think other than as a layout element, they've managed to avoid putting tables anywhere. It'll be annoying, but we can do it.

 

As far as I know, we don't have the Snitz archives, and another older instance of the phpBB section in an importable database archive, so the situation we have now is probably the best we can do on that front, unless someone wants to hand-type a few ten thousand posts into a forum or database.



#17 Themk

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:38 AM

As far as I know, we don't have the Snitz archives, and another older instance of the phpBB section in an importable database archive, so the situation we have now is probably the best we can do on that front, unless someone wants to hand-type a few ten thousand posts into a forum or database.


While it's a shame its not an actual breathing Snitz installation, it is a simple HTML dump. The form between the pages is pretty darn similiar, so a program to parse the HTML isn't out of the question. Wget the whole site, figure out the form, parse it into a database, done!

Macintosh SE SuperDrive, Macintosh SE/30, Apple IIgs ROM3, ImageWriterBanger II.

Currently building the amazing 68040! Performa (Quadra??!!) 638CD gets 40MHz full '040 [;)] , Ethernet, 136MB RAM, AV input card, and maybe something else. Should have performance comparable to the Quadra 840av when done! (A/UX doesn't work, but I still like this little guy right here: [:P] )


#18 jack

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 03:27 AM

^ that's actually what I was implying when I mentioned "import the data". Parsing HTML is quite trivial.


Macs: Plus, SE (x2), IIci, LC II (x2), Classic, Classic II (x2), PB 520, PM 6100, iMac G3 (x2), iLamp G4, iBook G3 Clamshell (x3), iBook G3 Snow, and a big stack of iBook G4's.

Other stuff: Apple IIgs, Sun Ultra 10, ImageBanger II (too many), and plenty of old DOS/Windows machines.


#19 Nathan

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:50 PM

Honestly I would think a wiki would, in general, be a better choice than making that also depend on the board/forum software which might someday have un-fixable bugs or not provide usable data exports. Especially since a wiki page is really just enhanced HTML for the most part. Although, I'm not really sure what purpose the wiki currently serves, especially when you consider as an example that, aside from archival purposes, everymac.com does a much better job of presenting machine hardware specs. The only really unique content is the tutorial stuff and the notes on scsi harddisk replacements. Also, there are plenty of static and/or dynamic web sites that present tutorial information, etc in somewhat better formats. For better or worse wikis were intended as encyclopedias and they can't necessarily compete with a properly designed site for storing data that isn't quite encyclopedic.  

  

Tangentially, anyone a fan of Markdown?


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#20 Cory5412

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 07:11 PM

There's a lot to say here. Ultimately, there's three things that I think say it best:

 

1: I think that parsing the HTML of the old forum will be a lot harder than you think. There are a lot of issues to dealing with it. I also think that integrating it into the new forum is going to be very difficult, without, say, wiping out user accounts. Doing that also puts the "historical context" at the far back of the regular site, which is "fine" (maybe even "ideal") but I think I like it better the way it's presented now.

 

I don't disagree that it would be ideal if we could write our own CMS/forum/wiki/blog et al, but I think we got something pretty good with Invision, and I'm okay with the compromises that we got.

 

2: The reason we're going in the direction that we are is that even though the wiki is better for the ultimate task of "writing an encyclopedia" -- we have a culture on the site that prevents editing because of the poor integration with the site, visually and technically. In addition, it's more difficult to maintain both, and because they use two separate subdomains, SSL certificates cost more and the infrastructure is more complicated to configure.

 

If the argument is that we shouldn't have or port, say, the spec pages over, then that makes the case for using IPB even better because those are one of the most straightforward uses of tables. (Although there's some other things, such as the list of video cards, which I don't believe are fully replicated elsewhere.

 

3: The whole reason I posted this thread was to aggregate ideas on what would be appropriate to post in our pages. I tossed out some initial ideas, and while I think the other part of this discussion is valuable, it does take away from the idea of "what content should be on the site." (Although I do think a lot of that is that there's not an awful lot of that at the moment, which is fine.)

 

I can split this topic if you'd like or we can post another one on the technical issues, but I will say that for the most part, this discussion will mostly apply to whatever forum software we switch to 7-10 years from today, since our investment in this platform is sunk and we haven't even finished what we consider to be our migration tasks yet. (the images, for example, a great example of how little time we have to dedicate to things like maintaining two crusty old installations of software we didn't even install ourselves.)


Edited by Cory5412, 25 June 2017 - 07:12 PM.
three things, whoops.





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