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rsolberg

Performa 6360 dual PCI slot mod

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Has anyone modified a 6360 to accept two PCI cards instead of one? Trash80toHP_Mini, I thought of you right away.

 

I've had this machine for about twelve years. Not long after I got it, I hunted down a Comm Slot II Ethernet card for it and plunked in a PCI graphics card. I maxxed out the RAM, found a 256KB cache module on eBay in a random parts grab bag and a new in box Apple Video System at a thrift store. It's mainly just a fun "because I can" box, but I'd like to add a PCI I/O card of some description. The onboard video is pretty boring compared to the Rage 128 that's installed, so I'd hate to go back. I expect a PCI riser from a 6400 would work electrically, but I don't know how much taller it is.

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The electrical compatibility is certainly good, my 6360 board worked here in my 6400 (with the dual slot riser) fine when I stole the 6400's faster board (actually from a 6500) to pep up the 6360 :).

 

Whether the power supply in the 6360 can handle the two cards you'd like to use may be another matter.

 

The dual slot riser is quite a bit taller in two ways - not only does it have an extra slot, but even the first slot is a good deal taller than in the single slot riser.

 

I shall get you photos in a moment of the 6400's dual in my 6360.

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For context for anyone else coming by this thread, the one-slot riser in place in the 6360

oneslot_6360.jpg

 

The dual-slot and single-slot risers together:

oneslot_twoslot.jpg

 

The two slot in place in a couple of views:

twoslot_6360.jpg

twoslot_6360_2.jpg

 

If you were prepared to do some case surgery and lose the TV connector slot and the internal video position then the riser would fit. There's a lot of case innards in the road, but nothing *important* nowadays.

 

The big issue is that the top of the dual-slot riser card would sit very close to the rear of the CDROM's connector. It looks like it *may* clear it - but even if it does you couldn't fit a PCI card in the top slot any longer than the riser itself.

 

Edit: looking more closely, even the lower slot pci card may intrude on the CD cables and the metal clip holding them if it were longer than the riser.

Edited by Danamania

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Thanks for your post. The pictures were exactly what I needed in regards to the height issue. I also see the 2 slot riser has the PCI slots offset away from the rear panel. Are there any components on the back of the 6400 riser card? I'm thinking if not, I might be able to find a generic PCI riser with closer spacing between the slots.

 

The power supply concern is very much a valid one -- I'm considering building or retrofitting a DC to DC supply in place of the stock unit, so I anticipate allowing for more capacity there.

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Guilty as charged. :I

 

post-902-0-71121700-1488597154_thumb.jpg

 

It's not difficult, you do need to lose the useless tuner card from the bay above, prune back some sheet metal and move the video connector board. Pretty sure if you trim the 6360 and the 6x00 drawer just right so they dovetail together without disturbing the fan cage you'll be good to go. Haven't looked at it in a long time though. Might wanna upgrade the fan, I'd worry about dissipating extra heat more than providing power for an extra card for USB.

 

I used this mess as a testbed for Sub-Basement cards headed into the MacintoshClassicIIIColorTVp™  .  .  .

 

.  .  .  what was that,  just about seven years ago? I've got a cheap as, sweet as chassis coming in from eBay for reinvigorating that project  .  .  .

 

.  .  .  talk about procrastination. ::)

 

At any rate, it went on back burner when I decided the trusty BenchMac6360 (top) didn't need the upgrade. I tucked the other 6x00 FuglyTower's complete drawer and @SSend up underneath my LisaXL front bezel with a 12" RGB behind that for the new BenchMacLisaXL™  .  .  .

 

.  .  .  so of course that's been on hold while I was AWOL from the hobby for a spell again along with the incomplete two-slot 6360. Yes the riser assembly is supported a block of wood, but it IS supposed to be what most folks would call "backwards." A modular BenchMac is a lot more useful with its bits sitting on top and its @$$end facing you than when pushing off the back of the cabinet as hard as it can with all those cords and VGA adapter  .  .  .  heh.  :D 

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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Sorry about my last post, it was way long on excuses about sorry appearance and unfinished state, overspiced with my usual OT drivel and way shorter on real info than it should have been. Not to mention my posting a pic that wasn't right-sized. Should have read the maniac's posts more carefully about the fitment issues instead of just posting a QuickPic while I was tired.

 

post-902-0-92368500-1488639275_thumb.jpg

 

Better pic of the backplane and a 6x00 drawer. You can see where the sheet metal of the case and drawer face need to be notched so they don't interfere with each other other's function. The case/drawer plastics are the easy part and will cover a multitude of metalhackage sins, just like mouldings do in woodworking. BTW, you can see that my "blocks of wood" are actually wedges for height adjustment in fitting, somewhat less inelegant than as described above. Almost, but I'm not quite that close to being a Neanderthal.

 

post-902-0-82636500-1488639328_thumb.jpg

 

Here's a shot of the card/connector bar clearance, let's call it 5/8" between the back of my vertically clipped USB card and the unnecessary connector bar. I say that because splitting the IDC cable loom for installation of discrete connectors for SCSI and power lines to the Optical Drive was always in the back of my mind. lopping off the AV section of the bar to hang free would work if you have clearance available for the kluge, depends on requirements. You'll gain about another 1/2" of additional head space for a installing a longer card that way.

 

Love the way the FDD and SCSI interfaces are interwoven. neither device can really interfere with each other and they provide crosstalk protection for each each other. Sweet, Apple's subcontractor obviously came up with that bit of elegance when the whole cable loom/motherboard connector notion hit the drawing boards.

 

post-902-0-66032500-1488639337_thumb.jpg

 

High angle view of clearances: the offset doesn't matter using the 6x00 drawer because there's a well built into it for the recessed connectors. Front to back angle of shot makes it look like the drawer doesn't fit flush with the chassis, optical illusion there, it does.

 

post-902-0-65702900-1488639346_thumb.jpg

 

Another shot that happens to show the clearance limits: more importantly it shows why it's imperative that the Fan Assembly, sheet metal supporting it and the portion of the bezel hiding it with openings for the venting remain untouched. The offset from the backplane, dropped section of the PSU housing and venting of outside airflow to the PSU housing are (hopefully) carefully balanced with the case venting to get just the right ratio of heated air from the PSU and cool air from the case vents into the CPU chamber for proper cooling overall when vented out the top. Pretty sure support of Portrait Res. was dropped from the spec in case that lovely RFI generation unit might be placed atop the 6360 and exiting airflow from the top vent blocked due to ID10T error malfunction.

 

I said heat dissipation was the more important issue above, it is, but it's the airflow blockage by the higher two slot riser that's at issue. It's taller than the CSII card/closer to the overhead, so pointing a tiny fan at the CSII card for restoration of that blocked airflow might be a consideration. Higher CFM rated fan replacement should probably be done, couldn't hurt even if not absolutely necessary..

 

post-902-0-16110700-1488639355_thumb.jpg

 

Not really a gratuitous shot of the Crescendo L2/400/1MB for which I bought the refurb 6360 back in the day, but what the heck! It show clearances, the cooling complexities and more importantly the mobo connector for the mirrored A/V cable that pokes the DA-19 connector out would appear to be a redundant vestigal LC Expansion Card cover port. Snag one of those little puppies and that cable puts the Video Out Board into your parts bin along with the tuner module. Any obsolete broadcast/cable TV interface now requires a converter box. Just make sure it's a high end unit with S-Video and Stereo Jacks for the backplane connectors and you're even good to go for TV on your little 640x480 secondary (primary as far as the clueless A/V Card/6360 knows) display next to your VidCard fed beast.

 

Forgot to prep the high oblique shot of the clearance issues for my full length PCI card hack posed by the raised position of the lower PCI Slot. Depending upon the height of the board and components it positions underneath the Optical Bay floor it's still doable. The (DVD playback Daughtercard equiped) Vidcard in there now must be full height whereas the full length Radius VidCard I used in the 6360 back in the day wasn't quite as tall.

 

Clearances in that HUGE expansion cubic wasted on the nice big speaker explains why you see it hanging off the side of the 6360 in the first pic. FDD, Power Button/IR Remote/Sound Jacks etc. box and the speaker all faced the front (backside) of the BenchMac6360. Never did re-install a CD, it was hooked up to an external CD/R/W Drive its entire bare@$$ nekkid sheet metal exposed service life.

 

There, was that a bit more helpful? I'll post HiRes versions of any pics requested. [:)]]'>

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OK, this one's full size on purpose:

 

post-902-0-08729600-1488726330_thumb.jpg

 

Noticed a couple of things, remembered a couple of things and realized a couple of things:

 

First, took this shot to show that losing the crossbar for/plug-n-play feature of the CD and reworking the cable loom is a worthwhile endeavor. Installing a standard SCSI connector in place of that crossbar gives you something on the order of an and inch and a half of clearance for PCI card length in the top slot.

 

The "PCI Quadra 630" I used to talk about in hacks back in the days when PowerPC was considered contraband outside of lounge discussions is on the right. It shows the sheet metal mayhem perpetrated in hacking a 1600x1200 capable, full length Radius PCI VidCard into the 6360 graphics production WorkStation. The second reason I never re-installed the CD was that the cable between mobo connector and CD connector bars was too short to work around the full length VidCard. Could have stuck it in there easily enough though. The workaround was purchasing male to female SCSI and Molex power extension cables. The same would preclude the necessity of hacking the loom to remove the connector bar if anyone wants to give this hack a shot. I never worried about the stereo output interface to the CD, never used it, I had a far better stereo setup in the office. If you want to do music on a PCIx2 hack you'll need to come up with a cable conversion/extension solution for that as well.

 

Remembered the simplest of hacks I've done. It's more than worthwhile and easy enough to do by anyone with any example of the TV/TunerMac series, tuner or not! Notice the thin piece of clear plexi installed in the slot for the Tuner. That's the new home for your video out card and VGA adapter. IIRC mine's set up to place the connector of one of my Libertry VGA Adapters right on the backplane. I almost never need to use it because the cable you see attached is a custom built universal VGA adapter that was a surprise in a grab bag of Mac parts back when those gems were listed on eBay. These days such masses of goodies like that are usually parted out. The things that are already listed are put up individually and treasures that aren't already listed like this cable wind up dumpster ballast. :-/ At any rate, this simple hack will work just fine for anyone almost as is. You can see where I'd need to score and snap off the excess plexi on my impromptu sled to clear an intact connector bar. Added clearance behind any Mac is a good thing, go for it, gang! :D

 

The next thing I noticed is that the chassis on the left is from the real Quadra 630. I have vague recollections (manic episode at the time, not necessirly a senior moment right now) of buying that first Tempo Trio and a 6500 drawer to turn the trusty Quadra into the ultimate PCI Quadra with this hack. Note the differences in the fan sizes and widths of the PSUs! Wasn't remembering the PSU cooling provisions correctly and I won't go into them now, but they amount to something a little bit more than a hope and a prayer  .  .  .  just a little.

 

By convenient coincidence, EvilCapitalist's sensationally informative  "why my Trio won't work in a TAM thread" makes me realize why I was doing card testing of the TEMPO TRIO for the ClassicPCI hack in the first place and that I'll need to switch to a 6360/6400 board and an ATX PSU whenever/if ever I develop an urge to take up this particular iteration of my ultimate Mac quest series again  .  .  .

 

 

.  .  .  and remind me again why this topic wasn't posted in hacks in the first lace? ;)

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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Hellooooo!   Hellooooo!   Hellooooo!   Hellooooo!   :blink: 

 

What's up? I get mentioned in the OP, I show up to try to help  .  .  .  the thread dies DEADer-n-a-doornail?

 

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Some little voice in my head said "If it isn't 68k, don't put it in the Hacks section." Why I listened to that rationale, I'm not sure, since there's plenty of PPC stuff in Hacks. Thanks for all of the photos and input!

 

Byrd touched on something I was wondering about with the flexible risers:

 

http://www.idotpc.com/thestore/pc/RS-1U2-1U-Flexible-1-To-2-PCI-Riser-Card-p260.htm

 

I may just give something like that a try before I get out the hack saw. I know I'll still need to modify the I/O panel on the logic board tray, but I might be able to slide it in and out without modifying the chassis due to the closer spacing of the slots on the riser, and potentially being able to position the lower slot closer to the logic board.

Edited by rsolberg

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That spacing only looks closer in the pics. If it weren't back-compatible ISA spacing for standardized offside backplane slots of the 1U case target systems you wouldn't be able to buy it anywhere. I can post pics of that riser's identical cousin in the box if you like.

 

I have visions of your future case hacking needs. ;)

 

2627S-4-5.jpg

Hacksaws and Dremels are tools of last resort in hacking sheet metal as far as I'm concerned. Sheet metal guys (tin-knockers) only carry the left and right snips. With those they can do anything the yellow one can do and sometimes the same thing it does where the yellow one can't do that either because the cut's close to an edge or in an inconvenient location. The straight can't do anything either of the other two can do.

 

I'd be on the lookout for a 6400 Drawer (or a 6500 Drawer if you don't need FireWire) where all the hard stuff's already done and you only need to nip off the corner of the drawer where the fan assembly needs to remain intact. Not sure if you get to keep the nifty removal handles or not, they need to stay or you'll have to come up with another way to yank the taller drawer out.

 

I can take a really close look at the fitment issues before you drop any money on the project, but I really don't think it's going to work out well if at all.

 

 

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I have one of these I snagged for the Orange pi ONE Docking Station and I stuck it in the board just to see. Of course the slots point at the CSII card, that's a given, it's the point of the design, but even with the lower bottom slot, the top slot's connector doesn't clear the drawer opening.

 

Folded back on itself, the flexible solution you linked might work, but you still need to raise the roof. If you had low profile Video and USB cards or the one in my pics above with the top two connectors sawed off you could contain the sheet metal mayhem in the Tuner Bay, leaving the external Video Out Card in place. Don't know of any compatible VidCards in that profile though.

 

You can lay that cabled riser over on its side with full height cards by carving out the Video Board's nest as well, but the extra cables may block even more airflow than the FuglyTower Drawer/Riser assembly does. Any which way you're going to need to do a high drawer hack/case bits-ectomy. Might as well do a transplant with a full unit from a donor from the OEM family. :-/

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Thank you! I've been trying not to post threads about unfinished hacks for the last couple of years. This one's close to the bottom of the Pile of Procrastination because it's no longer of real utility now that I'm putting off the BenchMacLisaII project  .  .  .

 

.  .  .  and the fact that those two metal cases can easily shoulder that incredible load. [:)]]'>

 

 

Should I post a hacks thread about relocating the video-out card and VGA adapter to the now superfluous analog module bay of the TunerMac series? It's very convenient to have the VGA connector tucked back inside the case. It'd make a nice little 3D print project for someone to model a board/cover plate/connector support unit to install in that bay. Having the VGA out connector of an adapter set to "universal" on the backplane instead of hanging way out the backside pointed at the wall is a new experience in Mac collecting. Hacking right angle headers onto the video-out card would even make for a slide out drawer unit for changing settings should that be a requirement.

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Detail of Video Out Card/VGA Adapter relocation to Tuner Bay. This moves the VGA adapter's connector to the backplane instead of sticking an inch or two behind it as would normally be the case. Very convenient to move the case farther back to reclaim desktop real estate in a tight space. This hack has the FuglyCool appearance I so enjoy, but it could be done in an elegant manner. The plexi sled is mounted in the slot tracks for the obsolete tuner and would need to be trimmed so as not to interfere with the CD connector bar.

 

post-902-0-51535200-1489587809_thumb.jpg

 

The mangled CD platform support just above it in the pic allows for installation of a full length PCI card in the 6360. Reinstalling and hooking up the CD would require some cable harness hacking, but the benefits of some full length PCI cards far outweigh the convenience of an internal optical drive. A full length card occupies much of the cubic where the internal speaker is normally located. Don't recall where I stuck it originally, most likely just sat it in the unoccupied CD bay. Replacement with a smaller speaker from another Mac would definitely keep the internal speaker in the CD bay's basement.

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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