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EvilCapitalist

USB/Firewire cards (or chipsets) that work in the TAM

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Interesting. I wonder if the PLX bridge makes a difference. In 2012 Mouser had the PLX PCI6140 in their catalog, but don't seem to any more. IDT claims their TSI6140 is a drop in replacement, but it has slight differences and since we have no idea what, if any, differences matter.

 

It might be interesting to take one of the cards with the TI firewire chipset, NEC USB chipset and replace the Hint bridge with the PLX bridge. Quest Components has them for a little over $5.

 

Now has anyone actually confirmed that the original Tango card actually worked, or is that just rumor or supposition?

Edited by trag

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I'll have to post a pic later, camera was in my hand, but is now AWOL. :-/

Pulled out the BenchMac6360+ and hit pay dirt:

 

Sonnet TempoTrio: MIO-PCB-A ©2002

PCI Bridge:  HiNT HB1 0223

Fierwire:  agere  FW323-05  1394A-05  LINK/PHY   02135   9476825

USB:  NEC  D720100AGM  0213KP026

UDMA133 controller:  PROMISE  PDC20269M  ©2001-0222

 

No time to test it today, maybe tomorrow?

 

 

 

Forbidden edit: HAH! As soon as I give up looking  .  .  .

 

post-902-0-28083200-1486826650_thumb.jpg

 

Say what you will about dropping support under fire, but SONNET sure does build 'em pretty.

 

re-edit: took a quick look and found the Tango 2.0 in the 6500 Drawer of the digital STARION 910 re-case hack, It was acting as a stand-in for TRIO#2 and will now be heading straight into the B&W G3 BridgeDrawer.

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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I purchased the original Tango when it first came out and installed it in my TAM and a few work computers, it worked just fine, but back then it was only used for USB input devices and the occasional importing of DV video. It was quite a long time ago, but I don't recall problems. Unfortunately, I did not keep the cards, I sold them alongside my Beige machines to fund upgrades. 

 

Looking further into the matter, it looks like the Tempo derived Tango card was sold alongside the 1.0 card around 2003. You can see the original card on the bottom and the new one listed on the right. The 2.0 that we mostly have seen then appeared around March of 2005. One should not take the payback machine dates as hard dates, but as approximations. 

 

On another note, here is a pic of some OrangeLink cards and their respective board dates, only the 3rd one is USB2 hence the addition of the plus.

 

Orange_Link.jpg

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Thanks for the links, I just backed up most of that SONNET info locally. My head hurts from going back and forth just as regards my Trios, but I found a few discrepancies:

 

Neither the Trio pages nor PDFs mention support for the 6500 anywhere!

Both site pages list the Trio as compatible with: Performa Series 6400, 6410, 6420

But neither of the PDFs make any mention of those machines.

 

Curiouser and curiouser. Maybe your TAM and my 6500s are out of luck. :-/

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The Alchemy design seemed to be more malleable to the software patches that Sonnet created, where as the 6500 was notoriously problematic. I think they tried to make it work on the Gazelle line but gave up in the testing phase. 

 

Incidentally here is a better pic of an actual Tango 1.0 card from a recent auction. It looks like the HiNT bridge is the most common among the Mac-centric cards. 

 

s_l1600_1.jpg

Edited by omidimo

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Luckily I've got the original 6360 and a 6400 board for the pair of TEMPOtrios. That expansion flexibility coupled with the SONNET CRESCENDO L2/G3/400 cards make up for the lower bus speed for all practical purposes. Especially with DMA PC133 for fixed disk ops compared to Apples' lame@$$ IDE implementation.

 

I'll test the Trio in the 6500 boards all the same, just not anytime soon. :-/

 

< patiently waits for eudiG to chime in and say it just ain't so  .  .  .  >

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The OrangeLink+ is from 2002, but is similar in design to 2001 model. It is compatible with Classic Mac OS (super slow USB), but it will NOT work in the 6400/6500/TAM. Here is the manual in case you want to dig deeper. The 9600 should be just fine.

Edited by omidimo

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Silly experiment might suggest the possibility of an even sillier upgrade for the TAM:

 

It's a given, Gazelle architecture's 50MHz system bus would seem to be an  insurmountable advantage over Alchemy's 40MHz bus. So, in memory intensive operations Gazelle would clearly the winner. However, Gazelle/Alchemy disk operations are both hobbled by Apple's partial implementation of ATA-2

 

SONNET's TEMPOtrio introduces ATA/133's maximum data transfer rate of 133MB/s into the mix, but only for Alchemy. Gazelle is limited to whatever it can manage to squeeze through the obsolete 40 line cable of Apple's borked implementation of ATA-2. So, if you were to upgrade to an SSD capable of swamping either architecture's I/O bus, Alchemy should clearly be the winner?

 

Depending on the mix of memory and disk operations in any given benchmarking suite, does Alchemy/trio or Gazelle come out on top for overall performance?

 

Which would be the winner in real world performance running what applications?

 

Could a street legal OEM Gazelle TAM be shut down on the line at the drag strip of real world performance by a data fueled SuperTAM with its hot-rodded small block Alchemy engine?

 

Is such a logic board upgrade even a remote possibility within the limited cubic and possible MoBo modification constraints of the the TAM? Is there a way to snake any kind of Ultra ATA cable through the silly thing from a PCI card's connector(s)*** to an SSD/adapter in order to leverage the I/O advantages represented in the TEMPOtrio's ATA-133 data pipe?

 

I've got the goodies in my grubby little paws to put Alchemy/trio and Gazelle on the starting line with identical CRESCENDO L2/400MHz /512K accelerators revving to the max to find out.  :rambo:

 

 

 

*** I'm guessing the TAM must use a laptop cabled version of the 6500's harness? Is it a surgically implanted modification? The TAM must be such a frimping hack on a patch on a kluge that it appears to be the single glaring exception to the rule that you'll find an exploded diagram on the last page of any given model's ServiceSource document. I didn't find one anywhere in the TAM's anyway. So, has anyone got linkage to an exploded diagram of the TAM or at least a HiRes pic of its cable harness a/o pics of how the tentacles from it snake through the thing?

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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< swoons, falls in love with the most ludicrous hack he's ever laid eyes upon! >

 

 

I'm surprised Apple contracted to produce 12,000 of those monstrosities, that's a low, low, low production value design, hand crafted P.O.S. (think Pininfarina, but a kit car knockoff mounted on a Corvair chassis) and just how much did it cost? It's no wonder they omitted the exploded diagram from the ServiceSource. ::)

 

 

<  takes another look at the case, tiny LCD an wholly underscale KBD, shudders, recovers from that ridiculous first response.  >

 

< almost apologizes for having some similar thoughts about the CC and commenting in a post about the TAM >

 

 

I see why the TAM crowd loves their little babies, they've got all the appeal and utility of British sports cars. 8-)

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkfXsMZZCLM

 

This silly old promo video (which I am sure everyone has seen) perfectly captures the absurdity of synergyizing the event horizon of design in a manner that bridges the future to late nineties. Apple was so lost a this time, so you have to give them props for even creating something unique when they were so busy churning out design lemons like the 4400. 

 

The car analogy is right on, but I would compare it more so to the Italian sports cars of yore as they are so prone to never working right. *cough* Maserati *cough*

 

Now having said all that, I think we should return back to core theme of this thread, since we do not need to make this another TAM : WIN or FAIL, now DISCUSS thread. I think based on looking at working combos, the magic seems to be in early Lucent, Opti, NEC USB chipsets and HiNT bridges. 

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I think your comparison of the TAM to a British sports car is pretty bang on there, governor.  Both are underpowered and fragile as all get out but also have their defenders who know that there's just something special about them.  At least we don't have to worry about British electronics!

 

Back to the topic at hand though.  I think power draw is playing a pretty large part as well.  That Belkin card I tested was fully recognized as a USB card but the USB ports never detected anything plugged in to them.  The Firewire portion worked, though it was just recognized as a PCI device (System Profiler couldn't figure out what it was) and any FW devices plugged in would work, but wouldn't show under System Profiler.  Then there are all the other cards I tried that had a HiNT bridge coupled with NEC and TI chipsets.

 

I've got three more cards on the way.  Two of them should have arrived already but both sellers somehow "forgot" to ship them until a week and a half after purchase.

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The protruding FireWire ports it marches the early Sonnets, so it might be worth having another donor Mac if that does land you the coveted original. 

Edited by omidimo

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I wonder if this G3 MT has the Sonnet in it, the machine looks old enough and the metal looks as old. 

 

Well, that tower went for a bit more than I was expecting.  If anyone here purchased it and it turns out to have the original Sonnet Tango inside, I'd happily trade you that for a Tango 2.0 (which will work in that machine) as well as some extra "sweetening of the pot" if necessary.

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