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USB/Firewire cards (or chipsets) that work in the TAM


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#1 EvilCapitalist

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  • LocationNorthern Virginia

Posted 06 January 2017 - 03:00 PM

I'm itching to finish upgrading my Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh.  I've already got the coveted 500MHz Sonnet G3, have maxed the RAM, and just picked up a CF card to replace the stock 2GB HD.  Presently I've got a 3 port Firewire card which works just fine but I'm looking to replace it with a combo USB/Firewire card if possible. 

 

I know the Sonnet Tango 1.0 works (but I can't find one anywhere) and the Sonnet Tango 2.0 does not.  Are there any combo cards out there that are known to work in the TAM, and by extension the 64xx/65xx series, aside from the Tango 1.0?  Any chipsets I should hunt for, and on the flip side any chipsets that are known not to work that I should avoid?  I've already run into the PCI-PCI bridge problem when I tried a generic combo card I had lying around as well as the SIIG USB/Firewire/Ethernet card combo card.


Own | SE Superdrive | Color Classic with Presto Plus accelerator | Color Classic II with Presto Plus accelerator | SE/30 | Classic with Performer accelerator | LC | PM5200/75 | Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh with Sonnet Crescendo accelerator | G3 All-in-one with Encore G4 accelerator | iBook G3 | iBook G4 | iMac G4 | G4 Cube 

Have owned | 512K | Plus | Classic II | Performa 575 | PM5260/100 | iMac G3 | iMac C2D | IIcx | LC | Quadra 700 | II | IIsi w/Portrait Display | Performa 400 | IIvx | Quadra 650 | PM6100/60 | PM7200/120 | PM7200/120 PC Compatible | PM7600/132 | Performa 6360 | Beige G3 | Quadra 840AV | PM8100/110 | PM8500/150 | PM8500/180 | PM6400 | PM6500 | PM9600/300 | PC PTP225 | B&W G3 | Graphite G4 | PB140 | PB165c | PB520c | PB540c | PB5300cs | PB190cs | PB1400cs/117 | Graphite iBook | Graphite iBook SE | MacBook C2D White | MacBook C2D Black Late 2013 MacBook Pro Retina 


#2 NJRoadfan

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 03:27 PM

I can confirm that a USB 2.0/Firewire 400 combo card I picked up from CompUSA ages ago works in PCI PowerMacs on OS9 and OSX. It has ULi brand USB and Firewire controllers on it. Generally all Firewire cards work, but USB controllers MUST be a OHCI compatible controller to work with Apple's driver, which eliminates VIA brand controllers (they used UHCI, along with Intel).



#3 HAL2001

HAL2001
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  • LocationThe Netherlands

Posted 06 January 2017 - 03:57 PM

I believe thuis one should work: http://store.fastmac...products_id=128

#4 Compgeke

Compgeke
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  • LocationFairfield, California

Posted 06 January 2017 - 06:35 PM

That OrangeLink card I can confirm for sure will work. It's the same card I have in my Powermac 9600. I don't recall what the Firewire chipset is but the USB chipset is the same one used in the original iMacs meaning it has native OS 8 and 9 support without much fiddling.



#5 EvilCapitalist

EvilCapitalist
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Posted 06 January 2017 - 07:25 PM

I just want to make sure they'll work in a TAM.  The TAM and 64xx/65xx have issues with PCI-PCI bridges which prevent many of these cards from working, even though they work fine in most other Macs.  I've taken the card that works great in my G3 AiO and tried it in my TAM and ended up with a machine that either wouldn't boot at all or if I managed to get it to boot it wouldn't recognize the card.


Own | SE Superdrive | Color Classic with Presto Plus accelerator | Color Classic II with Presto Plus accelerator | SE/30 | Classic with Performer accelerator | LC | PM5200/75 | Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh with Sonnet Crescendo accelerator | G3 All-in-one with Encore G4 accelerator | iBook G3 | iBook G4 | iMac G4 | G4 Cube 

Have owned | 512K | Plus | Classic II | Performa 575 | PM5260/100 | iMac G3 | iMac C2D | IIcx | LC | Quadra 700 | II | IIsi w/Portrait Display | Performa 400 | IIvx | Quadra 650 | PM6100/60 | PM7200/120 | PM7200/120 PC Compatible | PM7600/132 | Performa 6360 | Beige G3 | Quadra 840AV | PM8100/110 | PM8500/150 | PM8500/180 | PM6400 | PM6500 | PM9600/300 | PC PTP225 | B&W G3 | Graphite G4 | PB140 | PB165c | PB520c | PB540c | PB5300cs | PB190cs | PB1400cs/117 | Graphite iBook | Graphite iBook SE | MacBook C2D White | MacBook C2D Black Late 2013 MacBook Pro Retina 


#6 Cory5412

Cory5412

    Daring Pioneer of the Future

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 02:30 AM

You might be interested in taking a look at The 6400 Zone: http://zone6400.com/...rewire_USB.html

#7 Byrd

Byrd
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  • LocationMelbourne, Australia

Posted 07 January 2017 - 03:23 AM

Get ready for lots of trial and error finding any combo card that works in a TAM - it's an incredibly tricky beast to find any card that works properly in there.  I've only had success with the most generic 2 port USB card in mine (anything 3-4 port USB cards do not work, I've tried many chipsets), and looks like I'm sticking with it, having found an OS 9 compatible USB ethernet adapter for the card. I don't have a CSII riser card in my TAM, hence need for multiple functions on the single PCI slot.

 

- OrangeMicro USB/FW does not work (even with the 6400 patch)

- KeySpan USB/FW does not work

- Generic USB/FW/Ethernet, bridge mode enabled cards do not work - they're great in anything beige G3 and above, though

 

I can double check revisions of the cards I still have if you like to confirm incompatible status.

 

JB


:: Current project Mac: PB1400 resto

#8 haplain

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 05:17 PM

The only combo card I have had any luck with is the Sonnet Tango 1.0. As you mentioned, they are extremely hard to find. 


www.alittlebytedifferent.com


#9 EvilCapitalist

EvilCapitalist
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  • LocationNorthern Virginia

Posted 09 January 2017 - 01:47 PM

Get ready for lots of trial and error finding any combo card that works in a TAM - it's an incredibly tricky beast to find any card that works properly in there.  I've only had success with the most generic 2 port USB card in mine (anything 3-4 port USB cards do not work, I've tried many chipsets), and looks like I'm sticking with it, having found an OS 9 compatible USB ethernet adapter for the card. I don't have a CSII riser card in my TAM, hence need for multiple functions on the single PCI slot.

 

- OrangeMicro USB/FW does not work (even with the 6400 patch)

- KeySpan USB/FW does not work

- Generic USB/FW/Ethernet, bridge mode enabled cards do not work - they're great in anything beige G3 and above, though

 

I can double check revisions of the cards I still have if you like to confirm incompatible status.

 

JB

 

That's about what I figured.  She certainly is an incredibly picky machine!  I've tried three different cards already (what I had on hand from various machines) and I've got four more cards on the way, all with different chipsets, so hopefully something will pan out.  I've avoided anything with a VIA chipset since I've heard nothing positive about them on the Mac side and remember having major issues with them on the PC side back when USB first came out (SiS and VIA...shudder)

 

In any event I'll be posting all the cards/chipsets I've tested afterwards so that if one of them happens to work other folks won't have to play guess and check.


Own | SE Superdrive | Color Classic with Presto Plus accelerator | Color Classic II with Presto Plus accelerator | SE/30 | Classic with Performer accelerator | LC | PM5200/75 | Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh with Sonnet Crescendo accelerator | G3 All-in-one with Encore G4 accelerator | iBook G3 | iBook G4 | iMac G4 | G4 Cube 

Have owned | 512K | Plus | Classic II | Performa 575 | PM5260/100 | iMac G3 | iMac C2D | IIcx | LC | Quadra 700 | II | IIsi w/Portrait Display | Performa 400 | IIvx | Quadra 650 | PM6100/60 | PM7200/120 | PM7200/120 PC Compatible | PM7600/132 | Performa 6360 | Beige G3 | Quadra 840AV | PM8100/110 | PM8500/150 | PM8500/180 | PM6400 | PM6500 | PM9600/300 | PC PTP225 | B&W G3 | Graphite G4 | PB140 | PB165c | PB520c | PB540c | PB5300cs | PB190cs | PB1400cs/117 | Graphite iBook | Graphite iBook SE | MacBook C2D White | MacBook C2D Black Late 2013 MacBook Pro Retina 


#10 EvilCapitalist

EvilCapitalist
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Posted 22 January 2017 - 08:04 PM

After a few of the cards took an annoyingly long time to arrive I finally have the results for the eight cards I tried (this is going to be a long post, skip to the bottom if you don't feel like reading all the way through):

 

Card 1:  Evergreen Technologies FireLine USB 1.1/Firewire combo card

 

I had high hopes for this card until I re-read the page on The 6400 Zone that said it wouldn't work because it drew too much power from the PCI bus.  Indeed, when I installed the card my TAM refused to boot at all, just freezing at the Happy Mac or right after it started loading extensions.

 

USB Chipset - CMD 670

Firewire Chipsets - Texas Instruments TSB41LV03/TSB12LV23

PCI Bridge - Intel 21152

 

IMG_5093.JPG

 

Card 2: Sonnet Tango 2.0 USB 2.0/Firewire combo card

 

I didn't figure this card was going to work, but I picked up one anyway just in the off chance I'd get lucky since both the USB and Firewire chipsets were NEC.  No such luck.  Even with the Sonnet-provided PCI bridge patch the only thing that showed up in System Profiler was "pci-bridge".

 

USB Chipset - NEC D720102GC

Firewire Chipset - NEC D72874GC

PCI Bridge - PLX PCI6140-AA33PC

 

IMG_5091.JPG

 

Card 3: SIIG JU-2NE012 USB 2.0/Firewire/Ethernet (10/100) combo card

 

I bought this for a different machine but gave it a shot here.  No dice, just showed up as "pci-bridge".

 

USB Chipset - NEC D720100AGM

Firewire Chipset - Texas Instruments TSB43AB23

Ethernet Chipset - Realtek RTL8139D

PCI Bridge - HiNT HB1-SE33

 

IMG_5077.JPG

 

Card 4: SIIG JU-2NG011

 

Given that the 10/100 version didn't work I didn't think I'd have any luck with the gigabit version, and I was right.  Just showed up as "pci-bridge".

 

USB Chipset - NEC D720101GJ

Firewire Chipset - Texas Instruments TSB43AB23

Ethernet Chipset - Realtek RTL8169S-32

PCI Bridge - HiNT HB1-SE33

 

IMG_5080.JPG

 

Card 5: Adaptec AUA-3020 Rev A

 

I was hopeful for this card since Adaptec has made a lot of Mac products.  Nothing, just "pci-bridge".

 

USB Chipset - NEC D720100AGM

Firewire Chipset - Texas Instruments TSB43AB23

PCI Bridge - HiNT HB1-SE33

 

IMG_5072.JPG

 

Card 6: Adaptec AUA-3121

 

It was out there, figured I'd give it a shot.  Same result, "pci-bridge".

 

USB Chipset - NEC D720100AS1

Firewire Chipsets - Texas Instruments TSB41AB3/TSB12LV26

PCI Bridge - HiNT HB1-SE33

 

IMG_5069.JPG

 

Card 7: Adaptec AUA-3020 Rev C

 

Maybe a different revision would be better?  .Different, but not better.  Usually froze on startup, but very occasionally would show up as "pci-bridge" and the Firewire ports would work.

 

USB Chipset - NEC D720100AGM

Firewire Chipset - Agere FW323-06

PCI Bridge - Pericom PI7C8140A

 

IMG_5065.JPG

 

Card 8: Belkin F5U508 PCI rev 3.0

 

This card was the best of the bunch.  It was off to a good start since it actually showed up as two USB ports and one unknown PCI device (what turned out to be the Firewire part) in System Profiler.  Unfortunately only the Firewire side worked.  Even though USB showed up, nothing plugged in to either of the ports was ever detected.  I have to wonder if this is because it's not getting enough power to drive both the Firewire and the USB ports.  If there was a way to piggyback a molex connector off of something else in the machine to run to this perhaps it would fully work.

 

USB Chipset - ALi M5271

Firewire Chipset - Agere FW803

PCI Bridge - None?

 

IMG_5064.JPG

 

 

 

Results:

 

So after all that, I'm back where I started for the most part.  If anyone has a Sonnet Tango 1.0 they'd be interested in parting with I'd love to buy it, or if you would let me know what chipsets/PCI bridge it uses I might luck out and find a generic version.  On the flip side, if anyone sees a card in the group above they'd like, let me know.  They should all work in Macs besides the 54/55xx, 64/65xx and TAM since they all mentioned Mac compatibility (though most said the B&W G3 was the minimum required).


Own | SE Superdrive | Color Classic with Presto Plus accelerator | Color Classic II with Presto Plus accelerator | SE/30 | Classic with Performer accelerator | LC | PM5200/75 | Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh with Sonnet Crescendo accelerator | G3 All-in-one with Encore G4 accelerator | iBook G3 | iBook G4 | iMac G4 | G4 Cube 

Have owned | 512K | Plus | Classic II | Performa 575 | PM5260/100 | iMac G3 | iMac C2D | IIcx | LC | Quadra 700 | II | IIsi w/Portrait Display | Performa 400 | IIvx | Quadra 650 | PM6100/60 | PM7200/120 | PM7200/120 PC Compatible | PM7600/132 | Performa 6360 | Beige G3 | Quadra 840AV | PM8100/110 | PM8500/150 | PM8500/180 | PM6400 | PM6500 | PM9600/300 | PC PTP225 | B&W G3 | Graphite G4 | PB140 | PB165c | PB520c | PB540c | PB5300cs | PB190cs | PB1400cs/117 | Graphite iBook | Graphite iBook SE | MacBook C2D White | MacBook C2D Black Late 2013 MacBook Pro Retina 


#11 trag

trag
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  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted Yesterday, 11:02 PM

Second the desire to know what chipsets are used on the Tango 1.0...

 

I'm surprised the cards with the NEC USB and TI Firewire don't work.   Could be the Hint bridge, but I doubt it.  That Hint bridge also comes in a larger QFP just like the Intel 21152.   I swapped out the 21152 on the Umax S900 many years ago and installed the Hint bridge and the resulting machine had exactly the same functionality and problems as the original.    The Hint seems to be functionally identical to the 21152.

 

I think the problem is really in Apple's Open Firmware implementation.

 

On the S900, if one installs a PCI card with a bridge in one of the PCI slots that is already behind the motherboard bridge, it will freeze at boot time, unless the card does not have on-board firmware, such as ethernet, firewire and ethernet cards.   In those cases, the machine freezes after it loads the driver for the device in question.    However, if the bridge bearing card is the *only* card in one of the bridged PCI slots, then it's okay.  Lots of other weird conditional behavior pointing to a software logic flaw rather than a hardware failure.  Some cards don't have a bridge, but seem to set themselves up as if they do and exhibit the same problems.  The VST UltraTek 66 IDE card was one.  






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