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falen5

Any thoughts on this....it arrived!!!

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That maybey it rsolberg. Spent hours looking for broken traces etc etc......one day eyes got blurry, gave them a rub..no good...........getting worse all the time......dam old age too

 

Got this machine apart - took 3 or 4 hours. anyway here are the goods

 

 

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Edited by falen5

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I dont understand the large memory board for the hard drive. Was this the norm back then to use a hard drive with an apple ii. Looking at scsi boards on ebay  for apple ii's i gather you just plug the drive straight into the scsi board and your away. ScutBoy... taking it apart, I was thinking whoever built and used this thing was a brave person.........Explosion Hazard is what i was thinking

 

just noticed... the II power supply looks to be riveted together.......how do you open them .......drill?

Edited by falen5

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Why do you think that's a memory board? Your picture isn't quite high res enough for me to read every chip marking, but to me it appears both the main and daughter boards are just stuffed full of '74 series logic 

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Hey Gorgonops - Im only going by what someone said earlier on here  - someone said memory board , someone else said 'MFM to' (just checked, that was you- haha) - i have no idea gorgonops. Im calling in the 'X' board. 

 

I did a bit googeing and the motherboard is a "RFI board 820-0044-01/C/D silkscreened visibly on the board, 8111 to

end of production, no memory select blocks, used maybe on very late
Apple II and obviously IIplus."        - so dont know if it is a II or a II plus. but ill give it a good cleanup and test it later

 

Im looking at the power system - today going to take it all out and lay it all out on the floor. I think the 2 round transformers, that  are going into those large blue capacitors, and then into two rectifiers?( they are the 2 on the big heat sink) - from there they feed power to the hard drive and the X board. It becomes less scary as you break it down bit by bit

 

will have a good look at it when its all laid out on the floor and try powering some of it up today bit by bit. - just the power system - motherboard, drives, 'x' board all have to be cleaned and checked. Will test the motherboard and cards using one my II e's later

 

I really want to see if there is any possibility of restoring the whole thing. 

 

That hard drive is the mystery - if it can be revived it would be great to see what is on it - i have never had a drive like that before - looks clean, no sign of corrision

 

all i can do is check the connections of the power system, look for bulging caps, shorts, bad connections -  if they look good  plug them in and stand ready with fire extinguisher

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What's the diagonal of the CRT? Sourcing a TV CRT/Power Board replacement for that might clean up your mess considerably and you wouldn't need to test high voltage connections in your restoration process. Having one constant, known good reference point that you can hook up in its enclosure would make reconstruction of the rest a lot less hazardous.

 

 

< /lazy-cheater mode >

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i dont know what the goo is on the motherboard is - but it looks like it came from above the machine, landed on the drive bay cover and worked its way down. Does not seem to be corrosive . No signs of rust or corrosion of the electronics ... SO FAR...... there are lumps of rust laying about in there... cant see where from...from above pics there is some rust/corosion on the pins in the slots but they look intact. Just got home. Will start stripping this thing in a while - hope to have it completely disassembled tonight. will share what i find.

 

 

This is most of my collection to date - fixed / recapped most of them  bar 3 or 4 se/30's from the maxell bomb syndrome, and another 2 or 3 plus's that i cant get working. Question.... i had 20/20 vision when i started doing this madness about 3 years ago...........now i have very bad short sightness............to this day i still believe it was the fumes and smoke from soldering.........just wondering if anyone else had similar experience.

 

Serious kudos to you for all the effort! I've probably only recapped 5-10 (lost count) of my 50 or so Macs... seriously impressed! :D

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It’s got II Plus ROMs.

 

The dates I see on the chips seem to indicate 1982 as a likely production time. Which would means it predated ProDOS. It’d be interesting to get the hard drive going.  I’m wondering if it’ll be CP/M.

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hey trash80- cant find a measure tape so looked at the crt - says 12'. I hear you on the power supply situation. I am not looking forward to powering any of it up. Even if nothing blows and i get steady voltage it will not be under load. If and when I plug in the hard drive and board X the load might blow the hell out of the caps, transformer and blow the drive up etc etc. saying that The look of the thing as it was origionally hacked together  has me in a daze. Would be sooo cool to see this thing running. If the volatge is 12volt i could plug in a spare 12volt drive I have to test it under load. Have not had a good look at the rated outputs that are written on the transformers - as for the analog board there is so much stuff hacked onto it with switches front and back that has me is a daze as well.

 

Is there a danger in powering up an analog board NOT connected to a crt? anode cap just lying there? would that in itself blow something ?

 

Im all for restoring stuff, not blowing it up, and with this beast I am really stuck between saftey and origionality. I do not have the knowledge for this. Top priority is not to blow it up

 

hi James ..... this is a mental sickness!!!.......I was sure I had made a full recovery for the last year and  quarenteed the sickness back into the attic. 2 weeks ago i got an apple ii, the sickness led to this discovery. In 2 days it has taken over the kitchen and is now rapidly spreading throughout the house. Thank god herself is away for christmas. I have 5 days to get this outbreak under control before her return!!. Ah sure feck it, it could be worse i guess. Now , lets start plugging this thing into the mains

 

 

howya wanystewart - that z-card seems to indicate cpm allright - will be a miracle if the drive is still working - there is rust on the swingarm motor - will be a slow step by step process

Edited by falen5

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Thank god herself is away for christmas. I have 5 days to get this outbreak under control before her return!!.

Ahh! You better hurry up and get it working!

 

No pressure ;)

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hey trash80- cant find a measure tape so looked at the crt - says 12'. I hear you on the power supply situation. I am not looking forward to powering any of it up.thing into the mains.

 

Excellent, I was guessing it'd be a Lisa-like 12" CRT. That opens up some very interesting tangential hacking opportunities if and when.

 

Meanwhile, you can use any size uber-cheap TV set or any NTSC input LCD TV you might have on hand for your testing. ;)

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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Hey Gorgonops - Im only going by what someone said earlier on here  - someone said memory board , someone else said 'MFM to' (just checked, that was you- haha) - i have no idea gorgonops. Im calling in the 'X' board. 

I guarantee it's a hard drive controller. That board assembly was connected to the hard drive via two cables, a 34 pin one and a skinner 20 pin one, right? That is ST-506 cabling:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ST-506

 

Standard for "inexpensive" MFM and RLL hard disks from the late 1970's up through the end of the 1980's. This is an extremely "dumb" interface, not much more sophisticated than that for floppy drives, and has extremely strict requirements/limitations on cable length, controller latency, etc. Therefore it was very common when these drives were used on slow computers or in external boxes to use a controller board directly attached to the drive that handled the fast, dumb communication there and presented a more forgiving and simpler to interface to connector on the other side. That is what you have there. A common standard for the other side was called "SASI", which was an 8-bit parallel interface similar to SCSI, and I suspect that is what the host adapter card plugged into your motherboard supports.

 

Crack open an old enough external SCSI case and you'll often find a similar board doing SCSI-to-RLL or SCSI-to-EDSI (another obsolete interface standard) conversion in front of the actual drive.

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bibilit - thanks for the info and links. Will be needing all thoes links

 

Finally have the whole thing apart

 

starting to clean it up - that goo is a complete nightmare but its nearly all gone

 

 

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After  rechecking the pinouts of a molex the power supply is working correctly. Tested the power supply on another IDE drive and spun up correctly.

 

Took the out the blown cap - 10uf 20 volt. Took out the controller board, cant see anything obvious wrong.. looks clean. Platter spins freely (just moved it a bit)

 

Can i replace this with a standard 10uf 20 volt radial cap or is this some kind of special cap??

 

think i should of just gifted this to techknight.......but its in bits at this stage!!!  and im having a laugh at trying to eletrecute myself!!

 

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after closer inspection can see rust on the pins of some of the ic's and on the back of the board, when you really zoom in there is grit/dirt on the board.

 

will give a good wash/clean, replace cap and try again

 

 

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that crude unregulated power supply that was running the drive scares the hell out of me. Its amazing the guy didnt kill the drive back in the day, who knows, maybe he did? Anyways that was a tantalum capacitor so its no surprise she went pop. They tend to do that from time to time. Tants get more unstable as they age. Sometimes I feel they are worse than the old paper/wax caps from the vacuum tube era. 

 

I would use a much more modern +5v +12v power supply for the HDD. 

Edited by techknight

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thanks Techknight - apreciate it man

 

Theres another tant cap on there as well - ill replace them both with radials. 

 

yeh........not using those transformers again - will replace with a psu from a pc - i swear man that thing could of exploded.........still not in the better of it. even if i managed to get the whole thing working, all back together in the box like i got it, I would be terrified every time i switched it on!!!

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hi trash80 - 5am in ireland.......still awake

 

bad news on the motherboard

 

was looking at it after 1hour of cleaning trying to get that goo  off  - noticed allot of rust on many of the chips

 

decided to start taking them out and give a pins a gentle rub to clean them up......first chip and 3 of the pins broke off still in the socket - moving the chip in my hand and more fell off

 

tried another..1 pin broke off

 

74ls153 was the first - the socket was rusted too - took off the socket housing and the contacts  within the housing are grey or brown with rust

 

should of just bloody plugged it in before i decided to go 'cleaning'!!!

 

i can replace them - dam slow job - wondering if it is worth wile now

 

just look at the state of the pins..........there must be hundreds of broken contacts on that board

 

DAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!

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looking at the first pic.....i have a plan

 

this is hacked apple.......so might be able to do a bit of DIY repair.

 

I can solder the chip back on with the plastic housing removed....pin by pin..straight on to the contacts

 

the broken missing pins i can use a bit of a leg of a cap to jump the gap

 

a jasus...i have to go asleep ... this is nuts man

 

 

SANTA.....BRING ME AN APPLE II WITH SHINY PINS..... AARRGGGHHHH!

 

GOOD LUCK PEOPLE

Edited by falen5

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