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max1zzz

iMac G3 (Rev A -> C) G4 CPU Upgrade

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Even at 500mhz you'll still have the fastest clamshell in the world, as far as I am aware this isn't a upgrade anyone has ever done commercially.

 

In fact, it may well be the only G4 clamshell in the world :)

Edited by max1zzz

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if i could thumbs up a post i would the above one :) yeah afaik no one ever offered a Upgrade service for the clamshells. (incase anyone is wondering the G4 upgrade done to the Pismo is still working nicely heh)

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New here by not new to older Macs.

 

I have in my formerly nicotine stained hands a 533MHz 7410 board from a G4 Powermac. It is one of the low power units.

I also have an extra PISMO board (400MHz G3). I have 2 Pismos running today. Both have the 500MHz G3 cpu on them.

 

With the extra Pismo board I have, is there a place I can send it and the cpu board from the G4 out to that will do the swap for me? Or can I safely overclock the Freescale units I see on ebay for $15 to 550MHz?

 

I am also half tempted to make an aluminum heat sink (or maybe copper) to replace the plastic covered one that connects to the heat pipe on my Pismos.

 

Thoughts???

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there are professional shops that can remove BGA chips reball em and put them back in place on what ever PCB you want them to do it on. with that said you could probably overclock the 500Mhz 7410s that every man and his dog in the far east seem to have for sale :) to 550Mhz. (and id not be surprised if you could clock up a 533Mhz chip to 600Mhz) in regards to the pismo heatsink all the heatsinks i have seen for pismos where ally heat pipe units so im quite sure what you have going by how your describing it. granted making a copper one would be better for cooling with higher clocked G4s (and looking at the pismo i think if you removed the modem card you could fit an extra fan in there to help with cooling) one last thing keep in mind when overclocking you can be limited by how far your L2 cache will overclock. (so if your planning to try for 550-600Mhz i recommend a 500Mhz board over a 400Mhz board that might have slower cache)

 

hope this helps

Edited by LightBulbFun

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How would I know what the speed rating or model number for the cache is at? It was my understanding that the 400MHz and 500MHz in the Pismo's used the same L2 cache.

 

Or is this not the case?

 

I'm in contact with a BGA reballing service on ebay and hoping they can get me 30 day turn around. The stencil might be tough to track down, but, a "universal" one might be the ticket. (just close off the holes not needed or remove the un-needed balls from those pads that don't exist. Or they may just roll away since there is no contact point on the CPU)

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Is there any way to repurpose a G4 processor for a G3 ZIF socket? Would be cool to essentially have an old G4 upgrade for much less than they go for.

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How would I know what the speed rating or model number for the cache is at? It was my understanding that the 400MHz and 500MHz in the Pismo's used the same L2 cache.

 

Or is this not the case?

 

I'm in contact with a BGA reballing service on ebay and hoping they can get me 30 day turn around. The stencil might be tough to track down, but, a "universal" one might be the ticket. (just close off the holes not needed or remove the un-needed balls from those pads that don't exist. Or they may just roll away since there is no contact point on the CPU)

you will need to look at the cache chips themselves, the last 2/3 numbers of the model number on the chip will indicate the speed

 

A universal stencil will work fine, you need to find a 0.76mm stencil with i *think* a 1.27mm pitch. technically this isn't quite the correct stencil as you should be using .89mm balls, but i couldn't find either a .89mm stencil or .89mm balls and .76mm is close enough

 

However, I wouldn't bother getting them reballed, you can buy 7410's from china for around £10 with the balls attached (that is what me and LightBulbFun have done), this is less than any reballing service is likely to charge you

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Just heard back from a couple of services on ebay... nope! They won't do it.

 

Going to look around and revisit the article that was posted a while back about a company in Mass that did it for like $60 + S&H

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So, I am going to go down 2 paths.

 

1) I ordered a pair of CPUs from China (7410 BGA @500MHz) to do the swap on one of the spare CPU modules I have. It is a 400MHz module and I am going to rework it to 500MHz

 

If this goes well, and it survives an extended run time at 400MHz, I'll up it to 500MHz and see how it goes.

 

2) Carefully remove and reball a 533MHz Motorola 7410PD CPU from a recycled G4 board and reball it.

I picked up some toys on fleabay to see how well my skills are. I have 2 of these units ($7 each) that I can test the process out with.

If the reballing looks good, and step (1) works out, I'll send my reballed 533MHz cpu and my 500Mhz Pismo board from my existing (spare) notebook to be professionally done as well.

 

I'll then end up with a 550MHz G4, 500Mhz G4, 500MHz G3, and 400Mhz G3 cpu boards to choose from.

 

My 400Mhz boards were $15 from a salvage shop online.

 

I'll try and take as many photos of my reballing setup when finished. I "might" try and scavange the cache from the G4-533Mhz units and eventually upgrade those if I run into stability issues. 

 

Wish me luck... parts are on order and I will update this thread as time goes on.

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Is there any way to repurpose a G4 processor for a G3 ZIF socket?

 

Don't see why not.  G4 ZIF upgrades were available for G3 Beige and B&W machines back in the day.  If the parts are the same layout, you'd remove the G3 IC from the ZIF module and drop a G4 in its place.

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So, finally got round to doing some comparison benchmarks on the iBook. The results are good, it really is running at the speed it should be :)

Even tried clocking it up to 533mhz, which also seems to work fine :)

 

 

post-1862-0-98308900-1482770914_thumb.jpg

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very cool! hows the thermals like at that speed? :p btw did you ever get OS X running on it and the firmware update installed? also at 533 is it still reporting as running at 67Mhz or? I wonder what say this reports http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/gauge-pro. im still on the look out for another mac to solder a G4 onto (I do have my Flower Power iMac thats compatible but thats a very rare mac i rather not take the risk on) and in case anyone is wondering the Pismo G4 is still working

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Sooooo... are there any members here in the US that have tried this yet and feel comfortable doing one or two for me?  I would love to have a G4 in one of my G3's and I'm pretty sure I have a spare ZIF module or two...

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I am getting curious if i can swap out the G3 on my Crescendo G3/Nubus with a G4 chip.

Having a G4 in my 7100 would be nice but destroying the CPU upgrade in the process would not.

 

What do you think, could this work? The Crescendo Nubus came as a G4 variant as well so the drivers would know what a G4 is at least.

Anyone has an actual G4 upgrade of this kind and can take pictures so I can check for differences besides the CPU itself?

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I got word back from my FleaBay contact who said he would be interested in testing this out with a spare Pismo board but only if we tried it with a NEW 7410 vs messing with reballing a used CPU for now.

 

He didn't want to touch this unless he had access to a Powerbook to test this with, and he agreed to move forward if I sent him my spare Pismo. I sent over the links to the iFixit instructions on the CPUboard installation and he is now totally onboard.

 

$55 for the CPU swap and another $15 for the S&H of the components back to me. He doesn't want to mess with moving resistors to change the clock rate as the cache might be affected, so I am going to test that on my end and he will (possibly) incorporate that with the process if it is successful on my end.

 

He will NOT extract/reball a CPU from an existing G4 board at this time. Only new CPUs until this gets tested.

 

So I am waiting on the CPUs from China to arrive (ordered 2 of them) and will see how it goes. We call this "aggressively waiting"

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Don't see why not.  G4 ZIF upgrades were available for G3 Beige and B&W machines back in the day.  If the parts are the same layout, you'd remove the G3 IC from the ZIF module and drop a G4 in its place.

 

You can "harvest" G4 processors from the G4 533MHz cpu boards from the Power Macs. There are quite a few of these on FleaBay (ebay) for like $10.

 

The problem is that they will need to be reballed prior to putting them onto to G3 ZIF boards. I believe the ZIF boards had an actual BGA installed into intermediate board and then installed with new cache.

 

Its possible, but, I don't know of anyone who has done this in recent years. I will look to see if we still have the older G3 (beige) unit in our attic and if it still has the ZIF installed. I don't know for sure.

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Sounds like a plan! :) Pismo should work nicely with a G4 upgrade mine has been working perfectly fine temps are good as well with the stock heatsink setup a small amount of AS5.

 

in regards to upgrading the PPC G3 NuBus Card and the PowerStar CPU upgrade card what you have to check is specifically what G3 does it use? as noted above the 200-266Mhz ones are rated at 2.6v which is far too much for a 7410 to handle but the 300Mhz and faster G3s use a 1.9v-2v vcore which 7410s have proven to be able to handle. if it uses one of the lower voltage G3s then theres a good chance you could solder on a MPC7410 to it and have it work. I say it should work but you dont know exactly what they did so i cant 100% guarantee it 

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Well, I sent my G3 400MHz Pismo board off to be reballed. I got the 7410 from the guys in China a week or so ago. I have a 2nd CPU from them that I ordered at the same time.

 

Reballing service said it would take about 4-6 weeks turn around time.

 

If the 500MHz on the 400MHz board works well, I'll ship them one of my beloved 500MHz G3 boards and have them do it with that as well.

 

I've not started removing the 533MHz cpu and faster cache from a graphite mac yet. Been too busy with work, But, I have the reballing template and spheres in my bit bucket.

 

I'll try removing the cache and CPU once I get the turn around from the reballer.

 

I would really like to get a 550MHz Pismo running for some older software and get my Pismo in 100% working order. (Dug out my copy of Filemaker 8.5 the other day... its kinda slow on the G3 500Mhz)

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