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TimHD

Asante MacCon SE30 affecting video

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MacCon  SE30 Screen

 
Anyone know why my Asante Maccon SE30 ethernet card is causing this striping to appear on the boot screen? (there's also the occasional weak interference to the screen image too).
Jumpers on card set to default, SE30 boots fine without the ethernet card installed.
 

 

 

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I Should add, that thus issue came up despite this being after I had swapped out the Qantum 40SC HDD for a SCSI2SD board (which has gotta suck down a LOT less power than before). 

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Like Macdrone said, it's the caps in the analog board needs to be replaced. And if the Logic has not received a recapping, it will too.

 

Also, the Asante card needs recapping.

 

BTW - I got a permission denied error in viewing your pic.

 

The problem I see here is ebay - sellers will say that something is done to the thing they are selling, like a recap on the analog board and state that is it "Like New." It's not. Buyer Beware. If you get it, get it  and keep your old board and recap that. When time comes when you boar fails, you have an immediate replacement.

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Seems the original poster didn't link his attachment correctly. Here's a working thumbnail link to his full image for those needing a closer look:

 

sml_gallery_5459_108_1856616.jpg

 

I found that removing "sml_" from the file name of the jpg linked to in the first post, you can view the full sized image. (I'm guessing the "sml_" is the naming convention that this forum uses for auto generated thumbnails on image attachments)

 

 

It's not using the expand in the same window/tab feature that this forum has since this is just standard IMG BBCode. It will be up for the original poster to fix it in his original post. :p

 

I suppose I could download it and reupload it to my own file attachment space, but I'm too lazy for that right now. :p

 

As for the issue at hand. I would guess the hard-drive swap wouldn't have made a difference. Not sure how the older power supplies worked, but the motherboard is probably on it's own 5v/12v rail. So a defective part on that rail would mean changes to the devices plugged into the molex connector may not have as big in impact on your issue since the PDS slot and anything else to do with the motherboard is on a separate rail then the molex connector for your hard-drive.

Unlike PCs, these old Macs used floppy drives with power provided by the motherboard. (as far as I'm aware anyway, I don't recall seeing a separate power cable last time I opened up my SE)

 

So you could run it with the floppy unplugged to see if it has an impact on your issue.

 

 

Then again, the age of the machine and the PSU means everything is probably on a single rail. Then I guess the PDS card was just pulling more current then your old hard-drive was so the swap made no difference. :p

But if it does have a separate rail, then perhaps your SCSI2SD actually compounded the problem if you had it powered from termination power instead of using the molex connector to power it. But you didn't say, so that may be irrelevant anyways. :p

 

Either way, it definitely needs a recap.

Edited by Apache Thunder

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Just revisiting this thread...

 

I managed to acquire a 'new' (ie replacement stock) tested PSU / A/B for my Mac SE/30 and the issue persists! (So 2 x SE/30 PSUs / A/Bs get same result. )

 

As noted before, I have installed an Asanté MacCon IIsi/SE/30 PDS ethernet card (zippy.kicks-ass.org:9997/images/asante-maccon-se30.jpg) set with correct default jumper setting (these were so that the card can have video cards like radius pivots installed at the same time) see page 2-19 (http://www.asante.com/downloads/legacy/mcmlrb.pdf).

 

Given the machine boots up and works 'fine' but the display seems to be dropping bits of the video (vertical black lines), I wonder if there's some issues with the video pass through circuitry that enables those extra video cards?

 

Anyone here with experience repairing these kinds of cards (ie recapping and checking traces/circuitry related to the video)?

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Here's the image link again, hopefully it works this time... 

 

https://68kmla.org/forums/uploads/gallery/album_108/gallery_5459_108_1856616.jpg

 

(Interestingly, I just noticed this when checking the link, it only affects the background image, not the MAC OS loading pic or the Extensions Icons! Different part of video memory or something????)

 

Weird!!!!

Edited by TimHD

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If the logic board hasn't been recapped, this is probably a straightforward caps issue. Though the ethernet card may be the trigger, maybe loading down a failing trace on the logic board, I wouldn't be surprised if the real fault is on the logic board itself.

 

Vertical stripes are often UE8 (shift register) related. Looking carefully at the image, there are bands of 7 normal pixels followed by 1 faulty one going across the screen, except for the very last stripe which is the full 8 pixels wide. You can also see some subtle distortion (extra black pixels) within the MacOS section. The pattern seems to be that within the affected column, a pixel is black either if it is supposed to be, OR if the pixel immediately to its right is black.

 

I'm not exactly sure what would cause that but I'd guess something around the control lines for UE8 (e.g. pins 1, 9, 15) as opposed to the data lines from the VRAM. I doubt the VRAM itself is faulty since the last stripe comes out correctly. The fault could also be in the chips that drive UE8, such as UG7 and UG8. But if the caps are original there's not a lot of point in speculating further until they're replaced and the board cleaned.

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The SE/30 motherboard was recapped professionally and the issue only comes up with the ethernet card installed. Would a hires image of UE8 assist? (where is it btw?)

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UE8 is a surface-mount chip which is located roughly between the large capacitor C2 and the crystal Y2. It's a common victim of cap goo, which can rot out the connections inside the chip. Since the video problem only affects a single bit where the VRAM is loaded a byte at a time, it suggests replacing UE8 as a starting point. But it's by no means the only possible problem.

 

The SE/30 schematics I have supposedly have 9 pages, but the 9th page is missing. Apparently pins 1 and 9 of UE8 (labelled "PU2") connect somewhere on page 9 but I don't know what's on that page, or if it has anything to do with the PDS slot.

 

The only signal I can see which is on the PDS slot and the video circuitry is NUBUS/ which is pin C2 on the PDS connector (that's the inside row, 2nd pin from the front, near the ROM SIMM). NUBUS/ also connects to pin 6 of UE7 which is involved in video generation, but I'm not sure of its role. The pin is an output from the logic board, but I suppose if it somehow got shorted on the card, it could create weird behaviour in the video circuitry. That's just speculation though. Without knowing what it does it's hard to say whether it would produce this specific effect on the screen.

 

Does the ethernet card work by the way? I would imagine most things that would disrupt the logic board would also stop the card from working. Do you have access to a different SE/30 to try the card with, or an oscilloscope?

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This is not a UE8 problem as the icons and the splash page is not effected. It it were a UE8 problem, then it would everywhere, including the icons and the splash page.

 

Q: let it boot and see what the desktop looks like and send a pic of that. see if you can change the desktop and post results.

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Q: let it boot and see what the desktop looks like and send a pic of that. see if you can change the desktop and post results.

Elfen, I booted it up and played with a few desktops (white is white, single pixels on white becomes a few pixels wide on white etc. Vertical Stripes has no echo until you move it so that it lines up with the 7th pixel, then it goes 2 pixels wide like the desktop. Image is pre-move (you can see some of the text in window being distorted).

 

IMG 5172

 

I think the comment made earlier picked this up (i.e. only black pixels in the 7th column of 8 pixels are repeated as black): 

Vertical stripes are often UE8 (shift register) related. Looking carefully at the image, there are bands of 7 normal pixels followed by 1 faulty one going across the screen, except for the very last stripe which is the full 8 pixels wide. You can also see some subtle distortion (extra black pixels) within the MacOS section. The pattern seems to be that within the affected column, a pixel is black either if it is supposed to be, OR if the pixel immediately to its right is black.

 

Given this seems to be system wide, I suspect then the MacCon card (which is designed to allow pass thru and video card be attached) has either bad wiring or bad capacitors (?) that is impacting the video, or is it possible that the load the card creates is straining an (almost failing) motherboard chip e.g. UE8?.

 

Can anyone fix this (whether it be the card wiring/capacitors or motherboard capacitors)?

Edited by TimHD

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It looks like that image didn't post correctly (same problem as the first post). Can you repost the link to the larger version? A high-res image of the MacCon card would be interesting too.

 

And sorry to repeat myself, but does the ethernet card work? If it does that narrows down the space of things that might be wrong.

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Wow - what's the go with the images on here! Can't you see anything? I followed the upload steps in My Gallery, including 'Review and Publish' and the images are supposed to be 'Public'... How are you supposed to insert images into your responses then!!???

 

In my post editor, right now, I can see a 'My Media' button or a [ ] (polaroid/phot image) or links..

Using My Media, have selected these ones..

MacCon+ 30iET Front

MacCon+ 30iET - Backside of card

MacCon+ 30iET - Left Hand Side closeup

MacCon+ 30iET - Right Hand Side closeup

 

The Polaroid seems to generate an error -not allowed here (so why have a button!)

 

Here's a cut n paste of a link from when I am in my gallery, and select see all sizes, and select large for the front image!!
 
Edited by Bunsen

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Whatever you did with the images worked that time. Maybe repost the screenshot the same way.

 

The card looks pretty normal. Does it work? i.e. does the system see it, and can you connect to a network?

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The card looks pretty normal. Does it work? i.e. does the system see it, and can you connect to a network?

The Asante Network Card works fine, on the Internet with OpenTransport 1.1.2, just the vertical lines in the earlier image. As the issue only comes up when the card is in the SE/30, I think the card is fine and it's gotta be a MB issue. While I had that professionally recapped and tested, I am starting to think something's gone wrong with a video chip or vram (UE8 keeps getting a mention??).

 

Is there any way I can test UE8 or the VRAM? What do I need?

Edited by TimHD

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This is not a UE8  or related chips issue. Here's why. If it was a UE8 problem you would have bars everywhere on everything - icons, open windows, filenames, etc. This is what your screen would look like (excuse my POOR Photoshop Skills!)

 

UE8Error.png

 

See how it interferes with everything...

 

 

Instead, you got this. Again, Excuse my poor Photoshop Skills...

NoBars.png

 

I had to go through the forum, and remembered this... You (and everyone here saying its a UE8 Error) should read it - all 2 pages of it!
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/23040-se30-jail-bars-llllll/

 

 

In thinking because it is not effecting other things but just the desktop, I come to the conclusion that it is an System/OS error/conflict with the Ethernet card. Why it is happening, I would not know without having it in front of me and giving it a once-over.

 

And it's not the Video RAM either - the 2- 4464 chips on the left side of the board near UE8. If it were your video screen would be really trashed.

 

All I can say is this:

1) Get a Clean Minimal System on a floppy that the SE\30 can boot from. (Do not have the ethernet card drivers on it.)

2) Disconnect the hard drive (the power cable, not the SCSI cable)

3) Boot with the floppy.

4) See how it boots with and without the ethernet card connected.

 

If you can, have a boot floppy for System 6 and System 7 to do this test with. I can bet that this is an OS issue and not a hardware issue.

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Just had a crazy idea...

 

When you do this test, when you have the ethernet card out, look at it's PDS Connector. There should be 3 rows of pins on it. I'm thinking - you might have a bent/broken/missing pin. If so, this could be the problem.

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Not crazy. I did check it, even took a picture with my iPhone 6, though I didn't upload the picture to the site because (i) it looked fine as I could site all the three rows of pins (female on PDS looked fine too) and (ii) was having such dramas with getting hi-res images on this site (how do you do it?). In any event, here it is... https://68kmla.org/forums/uploads/gallery/album_134/gallery_5459_134_1041542.jpg

 

Speaking of images, we're back at UE8...

 

Again, just to preface things, this board was recapped by Maccaps and passed all the test (was fine before it went in too, the recap was mostly preventative and the SE30 was chiming ok well before this 'fix', this was not a battery leakage victim, just old before recapping. Some Bourn filters were replaced, but otherwise, passed the burn in tests fine apparently.

 

So, here's some images of the UE8 on my SE30 board. 

 

Front: Large

Rear: Large

 

Direct Links:

https://68kmla.org/forums/uploads/gallery/album_134/gallery_5459_134_947058.jpg

https://68kmla.org/forums/uploads/gallery/album_134/gallery_5459_134_3215868.jpg

 

Welcome if anyone can see any issues...

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Good to hear about the Pins...

 

UE8 looks fine from the photo graph and it is not the problem. I'm not defending MadCap's work but he does great work in bringing dead and dying machines and he's even fixed a couple of my machines as well.

 

Did you read my post (last post on Page 1) before this first past on page 2? Here's the Link:

https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/26506-asante-maccon-se30-affecting-video/?p=287650

 

Basically, if it is a UE8 issue, then there would be vertical bars every where and the pattern of the bars would depend on what data bits are effected on the VRAM. Your SE\30's problem is this is happening only on the desktop, not through the windows, menu bar or icons. A UE8 issue would have bars through the windows, menu bar and icons. You should sit down and read this thread entirely and you will see that it is not a UE8 issue:

https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/23040-se30-jail-bars-llllll/

 

So this narrows it down to a System/OS error or conflict. System/OS errors or conflicts are hard to figure out. Once it is figured out, it would be easy to fix, but figuring out what it is - that's the issue. UE8 is just a DUMB Signal Latching Gate Array that grabs the bytes from the VRAM to display it on the screen. There is no intelligence or CPU Control in UE8 for it to discriminate where to put or not put bars through the windows, menu bar and icons. That takes software which UE8 has no control over. This is why if you have an issue with UE8, you will have bars all over the place and not just in the desktop only.

 

Lets look at the SE\30 board. Right under the 68030 is the Video ROM (usually on a socket). Rock it up a bit on both sides with a screwdriver or  IC extractor and press it back down into place to break any corrosion that might be in the socket.

 

Any other problems? What kind of ROM SIMM is on the SE\30? A SE\30 (24bit dirty) ROM SIMM or an updated IIfx or IIsi (32bit clean) ROM SIMM? If it is a 32bit clean ROM SIMM, that might be the problem. Sure, it will give you 32bit access to RAM but it will also make your SE\30 think that it is something else (a IIfx or IIsi) and not an SE\30. This can produce issues with the System OS and hardware. "About this Mac" on the higher versions of System 7 should tell you what Mac it is on depending on the ROM's Gesault number. If you have a different ROM in your SE\30 board, it will show up as a different Mac on those versions of System 7. Any card expecting a SE\30 seeing that it is in another machine because of a ROM SIMM change will throw up issues, no matter how slight or crazy. If you need 32Bit Clean access to RAM, you can use the Mode32 Control Panel and Extension with the original SE\30 ROM SIMM instead of an updated ROM SIMM from a IIfx or IIsi.

 

I'm not denying that your SE\30 has a problem, for it does. But it is not hardware with UE8 or the VRAM. This is a Software/OS & Hardware issue conflict. The question is "why." And this is going to be a very hard problem to figure out.

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(how do you do it?)

 

Screen Shot 2016-02-11 at 8.05.25 am.png

 

Screen Shot 2016-02-11 at 8.06.30 am.png

 

gallery_5459_134_1041542.jpg

 

Or you can upload it as an attachment (use the full comment editor from the "More reply options" link below the reply box) and then (optionally) add it into the post.

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https://68kmla.org/forums/uploads/gallery/album_108/gallery_5459_108_1856616.jpg

 

this picture is only 1 of 2 things.   1. a trace or via that has opened up connecting the vram to the UE8 i/c

2. UE8 its self.

 

In the picture it looks like I replaced UE8 already... so this means that maybe the flexing of the board when inserting the PDS card or some flex from the pds card being installed is causing one line to disconnect from the Vram to UE8.

This can be checked by using a multimeter with the se.30 schematics and doing a continuity check pin to pin.

 

Might want to check those lines with the PDS card installed as you said this issue is only apparent when pds card is installed.

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