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a Mac 128K and a keyboard.....


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#1 mactjaap

mactjaap
  • 6502
  • LocationThe Netherlands

Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:25 PM

Just blow'n away some dust and started up my Mac 128K. Booting alright with Finder 1.0! But I noticed a strange behaviour of my keyboard, a M0110 B. The qwerty range and second row are allright, but the last row has shifted one character!
So the \ is a z, the x a c, the c is a v, etc.
Is there some kind of keyboard setting I’m missing?

I out of the compact Mac’s for one year…maybe my knowledge is also a little rusty... So some help is welcome!

Collection: Apple II (ITT 2020), LISA 2, Macintosh 128K, 512K, Plus, ED, SE, Portable, PowerBook 100 and a FastPath5 router.
Looking for TCP/IP over LocalTalk?? I made something very usefull... Look at http://www.macip.net


#2 RickNel

RickNel
  • 6502
  • LocationAustralia

Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:50 PM

If this effect is only on the first few keys of that bottom row, then it is probably due to one of the traces in the keyboard membrane shorting or not connecting. First I would take the keyboard apart and thoroughly (but gently) clean everything around the membrane, and particularly where the membrane traces attach to the circuit board. Also use a toothbrush to carefully clean around the controller chip on the circuit board - a speck of dirt could be shorting between a couple of pins there. It is unlikely to be caused by dirt in the individual key switches, but if you have the patience you can remove the keycaps and clean inside those switches as well. Some areas can't be cleaned just by blowing.

If none of these steps solve the problem, you could change any electrolytic capacitors on the circuit board - most models have one close to the controller chip.

Rick

68Ks: - 512ked, Plus, Classic, IIsi, Pwrbk 160, 190CS
PPCs: - G3 iMac x6, Pwrbk Wallst, iBook Clamshell x2, PowerMac x2, Studio Displays 15", 17", G4 eMac x 3, iMac Lamp 15" x2, Lamp 17" x2, Powerbook 15"


#3 mactjaap

mactjaap
  • 6502
  • LocationThe Netherlands

Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:37 AM

[attachment=2]foto (Large).JPG[/attachment]

I now booted op my Mac 512. With another M0110 B keyboard. To be sure also an other boot disk, with Finder 1.1....
Same error......
So I started to think. Would be strange to have two keyboards with the same membrane shorting. Especially when I found out that also on the first row something strange happened.
First key was not a paragraph sign (§) as expected, but a back tic (this is the one: `). Then I begin to think about a software problem

I do have more 400K system disks. One of them is a Macintosh system disk with Finder 4.1 on it.
This one boots the 128K and the 512K. And most important.... no shifting in characters!!!
First row goes like this:
§1234567890-=
Second:
qwertyuiop[]
Third:
asdfghjkl;’ and the ` is the return key. The return key gives a backslash \ and with Shift a pipe |
Forth
\zxcvbnm,./

On Finder 1.0 and 1.1 it goes like this:
First row goes like this:
`1234567890-=
Second:
qwertyuiop[]
Third:
asdfghjkl;’`
Forth
zxcvbnm,./ and the last key..the / doesn’t do anything. Also not with Shift

So with this system you cannot use the \.

Anyone has a clue what goes wrong? I didn’t find any keyboard settings in System 1.0 or 1.1.

[attachment=1]foto2.JPG[/attachment]

[attachment=0]foto3.JPG[/attachment]

Collection: Apple II (ITT 2020), LISA 2, Macintosh 128K, 512K, Plus, ED, SE, Portable, PowerBook 100 and a FastPath5 router.
Looking for TCP/IP over LocalTalk?? I made something very usefull... Look at http://www.macip.net


#4 TheMacGuy

TheMacGuy
  • 68000
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 18 May 2013 - 04:57 PM

Could it be that the software is recognizing an US keyboard?

Plat IIe, 512kE, Plus, SE, P200, Q: 605 650, C610, PB: 165 210 5300cs 5300c G3PDQ TiG4 2x Al 12" 2x Al 15", PM: 6500 Cube Sawtooth, eMate, iBooks: 1 Tang 1 BB 1 Indg Clams 12" Ice G3 14" G4, 2 iMac G4, 2x PMG5, MB1,1


#5 Charlieman

Charlieman
  • 68000
  • LocationLeicester, UK

Posted 18 May 2013 - 06:19 PM

Yup, that is what happens when you use an original UK layout keyboard with US system software. Run Localizer to configure a copy of your system disk for UK layout.

#6 mactjaap

mactjaap
  • 6502
  • LocationThe Netherlands

Posted 18 May 2013 - 06:53 PM

Aha! I understand. So the keyboard layout I have is UK?
Would be nice to get a UK System 1.0 disk.

Collection: Apple II (ITT 2020), LISA 2, Macintosh 128K, 512K, Plus, ED, SE, Portable, PowerBook 100 and a FastPath5 router.
Looking for TCP/IP over LocalTalk?? I made something very usefull... Look at http://www.macip.net


#7 Charlieman

Charlieman
  • 68000
  • LocationLeicester, UK

Posted 18 May 2013 - 07:24 PM

There is a £ symbol on the top row. That means the keyboard is UK layout.

The utility Localizer adds the appropriate KB resources to early system disks.

#8 mactjaap

mactjaap
  • 6502
  • LocationThe Netherlands

Posted 18 May 2013 - 08:54 PM

@Charlieman

OK! I'm getting it. UK keyboard with US System software. makes sense. Didn't know about the Localizer software.
Is there online some information about this? I can't find it on the Internet. A link to information about this subject would be welcome!!!


I Googled a bit and found the US keyboard. For US normal .... but in The Netherlands where I live it seams that most Mac 128K and 512K had an UK keyboard.
Posted Image
Picture from: The Ideal Mac keyboard Layout
http://www.avernus.c...ect-layout.html

Collection: Apple II (ITT 2020), LISA 2, Macintosh 128K, 512K, Plus, ED, SE, Portable, PowerBook 100 and a FastPath5 router.
Looking for TCP/IP over LocalTalk?? I made something very usefull... Look at http://www.macip.net


#9 markyb86

markyb86
  • 68000
  • LocationAurora, OH, USA

Posted 19 May 2013 - 01:34 AM

Do you use Microsoft Multiplan that you have sitting out? :beige:
Curious on your thoughts if you do. or have.

#10 RickNel

RickNel
  • 6502
  • LocationAustralia

Posted 19 May 2013 - 04:09 AM

Glad to hear that this is a software compatibility issue, not hardware. My hardware suggestions was based on understanding that the key-shifting had started to appear on a system that previously was OK, but didn't work properly after a period of disuse. Now I understand that you had not used that keyboard and system combination before. That is much better news!

Rick

68Ks: - 512ked, Plus, Classic, IIsi, Pwrbk 160, 190CS
PPCs: - G3 iMac x6, Pwrbk Wallst, iBook Clamshell x2, PowerMac x2, Studio Displays 15", 17", G4 eMac x 3, iMac Lamp 15" x2, Lamp 17" x2, Powerbook 15"


#11 mactjaap

mactjaap
  • 6502
  • LocationThe Netherlands

Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:04 AM

@markyb86

Yes!!It is Microsoft Multiplan (27 april 1984 Microsoft Corp.)

From Wikipedia:

Multiplan was an early spreadsheet program developed by Microsoft. Known initially by the code name "EP" (for "Electronic Paper"), it was introduced in 1982 as a competitor for VisiCalc.
Multiplan was released first for computers running CP/M; it was developed using a Microsoft proprietary p-code C compiler[1] as part of a portability strategy that facilitated ports to systems such as MS-DOS, Xenix, Commodore 64, Texas Instruments TI-99/4A, Radio Shack TRS-80 Model II, TRS-80 Model 100 (on ROM), Apple II, and Burroughs B-20 series.
Despite the release of Microsoft Chart, a graphics companion software, Multiplan continued to be outsold by Lotus 1-2-3. It was replaced by Microsoft Excel which followed some years later on both the Apple Macintosh (1985) and Microsoft Windows (1987).
Around 1983, during the development of the first release of Windows, Microsoft had plans to make a Windows version. However the plans changed a year later.


The disk I have has The Macintosh Finder, Version 1.0 (18 Jan 84) on board.

[attachment=2]foto (3a).JPG[/attachment]

[attachment=0]finder1.0.JPG[/attachment]

[attachment=1]foto (3).JPG[/attachment]

Collection: Apple II (ITT 2020), LISA 2, Macintosh 128K, 512K, Plus, ED, SE, Portable, PowerBook 100 and a FastPath5 router.
Looking for TCP/IP over LocalTalk?? I made something very usefull... Look at http://www.macip.net


#12 mactjaap

mactjaap
  • 6502
  • LocationThe Netherlands

Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:10 AM

@Charlieman
@RickNel

For future generations....
This is what I did. I downloaded disk image Utilities 2 from the Boston Computer Society.
http://www.n-1.nl/mac/bcs/index.html
This was done on my Baselisk II virtual machine. I mounted the disk an copied Localizer to my Quadra over Appletalk. There I copied it on a 800K disk, because all my 400K disk gave a copy error -2....
The 800k disk was put in a SE and Localizer copied to the hard disk. The finaly I copied Localizer to the 400K disk with Finder 1.0.

Localizer runs fine in System 1.0. When opening it says:

The Macintosh Localizer 1.2

You can use the Localizer to change the keyboard routine and the intrenational resources that are part of the System file on the application disk.

After you select the options the Localizer, in my case United Kingdom, the system disk ejects and you will be asked to insert the disk which has to be localized.
You can just insert the same system disk and click on OK. It will be localized and you can insert another one, if you want. You can also stop Localizer if you click on Quit.

[attachment=2]1.jpeg[/attachment]

[attachment=1]image2.jpeg[/attachment]

[attachment=0]foto (3).JPG[/attachment]

Collection: Apple II (ITT 2020), LISA 2, Macintosh 128K, 512K, Plus, ED, SE, Portable, PowerBook 100 and a FastPath5 router.
Looking for TCP/IP over LocalTalk?? I made something very usefull... Look at http://www.macip.net


#13 onlyonemac

onlyonemac
  • 6502
  • LocationNear Chichester, United Kingdom

Posted 23 May 2013 - 04:38 PM

I would be sure to copy the system disk first, so that you still have the original.
Don't hack your Mac...you might as well throw it in the dumpster.
Always on the lookout for cheap/free Macs and Mac goodies-PM me if you've got an offer.

As my username suggests, I only have one mac (Performa 475), but wouldn't mind 50 or so.

#14 mitchW

mitchW
  • 6502
  • LocationSlovenia, Europe

Posted 05 February 2015 - 11:25 PM

I also need the Localiser utility, but the link provided above is now dead. Does anyone knows where to get the Localiser?


I own: Mac SE/30, Mac Classic II, Quadra 610, PM G3 tower w/SCSI, PM G3 B&W, iMac G3 Tangerine, PM G4 AGP, PB G3 Wallstreet, 3x PB G3 Pismo, PB 520c, PB Duo 230, PB 165

Sold: PB G4 Ti, G4 MDD, iMac G3 Rev. A, iBook G3 Clamshell FW SE


#15 mac512

mac512
  • 6502
  • LocationToronto, Canada

Posted 23 February 2015 - 12:34 AM

Try this:

 

http://macintoshgard...ety-disk-images






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