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Connecting 68k Macs to LCD Monitors


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#41 James1095

James1095
  • 6502

Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:04 AM

I had a 486 DX2-66 with auto detection, that was one of the earliest though. Previously you'd just enter the information printed on top of the drive, it was not particularly hard, but certainly less elegant than the Apple hardware of the era. Both systems had advantages and disadvantages. I was always a PC guy back in the day, but I do love the vintage Macs, they were in many ways ahead of their time.

#42 olePigeon

olePigeon
  • 68LC040

Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:51 AM

Here's my LCD. :)
[attachment=0]philips.jpg[/attachment]

#43 Gil

Gil
  • 68000
  • LocationBarrington, Illinois, USA

Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:58 PM

Although I haven't tested on a 68k, I hooked a PowerBook 3400c to an ASUS V198 20" LCD monitor (which I bought new this year) and seems to work well.

Posted Image
My Macs:
SE (dual 800k), IIcx, SE SuperDrive, LC, LC III, Performa 578, 6200, 7200, 9500, 6400, PB 1400c, 7300, 5500, PB 3400c, G3 MT, G4 Yikes, iBook G3 Clamshell, iMac G4 800MHz, Power Mac G4 MDD Dual 867, Mac Mini 1.42 G4.

#44 markyb86

markyb86
  • 68000
  • LocationBedford, OH, USA

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:44 AM

PowerBook 3400c to an ASUS V198 20" LCD

When my ps3 gave me crap about a burned DVD, used the powerbook g3 hooked to a 46" tv and it was just fine }:)
Although I haven't tried a 68k mac hooked to an LCD yet, a while back we had a Atari Falcon hooked to an LCD TV via a rigged composite cable my buddy soldered up.

Check out my blog and detailed computer listing http://markyb.applefool.com/

classillanow80.png Would love to own again: Laser Turbo XT, Magnavox 13" RGB/composite monitor, IBM ThinkPad 720


#45 insaneboy

insaneboy
  • 68000
  • LocationPortland, ME

Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:48 PM

No problems with the little 15" LG monitor I use in the basement for my G4 mini. hooked IIci up to it with just a regular mac to vga adaptor and it worked

crappy iPhone shot (No, I had not wiped the HDD yet either :p )
Posted Image

#46 Strimkind

Strimkind
  • 6502
  • LocationKelowna, BC

Posted 24 November 2012 - 10:46 PM

Has anyone tried the Apple Multiscan 15 display cable? I ask because the Multiscan 15 is VGA in the back but the cable converts it to the Apple Video Port. I have one unit, but two cables and I think this could be the most painless option to connect an LCD monitor.

Laptop: Pismo 400, 1400c x 3, 230, 280c, 2300c x 3, mini dock x 2, Duo Dock II
Desktop: PM 8600, Mac Mini 2011 i7 2.5ghz, Colour Classic VGA Mystic


#47 markyb86

markyb86
  • 68000
  • LocationBedford, OH, USA

Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:38 AM

GERI's desktop was FANTABULOUSSSSSSSS! :o)

Check out my blog and detailed computer listing http://markyb.applefool.com/

classillanow80.png Would love to own again: Laser Turbo XT, Magnavox 13" RGB/composite monitor, IBM ThinkPad 720


#48 olePigeon

olePigeon
  • 68LC040

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:32 PM

Has anyone tried the Apple Multiscan 15 display cable? I ask because the Multiscan 15 is VGA in the back but the cable converts it to the Apple Video Port. I have one unit, but two cables and I think this could be the most painless option to connect an LCD monitor.

I just tried it. It's missing a pin or something compared to a regular VGA cable. When I plug it in, the image comes out washed to the point of almost grayscale, and the contrast is shot. I tried two different Apple cables with the same results.

#49 Bunsen

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:46 PM

Trash80, what is the keyboard in this shot?
http://68kmla.org/fo...php?id=1536&t=1

olePigeon, I love the way your LCD matches the look of the IIci - what make & model is it?

have you searched? Seeks: Nubus PDS DSP PB170 Newton; TRS-80 III/4; CBM BBC SX-64 CX5M Likes: 8bit luggable palmtop terminal NC tablet audio MIDI analog FM drum synth steam&dieselpunk; 1930-1980 lab/comm/mil Score! NC100 PB190 Q950 IIe-PDS


#50 Trash80toHP_Mini

Trash80toHP_Mini

    NIGHT STALKER

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  • LocationBermuda Triangle, NC, USA

Posted 21 December 2012 - 02:18 PM

http://vintagecomput...pen-tablet.html ;)

NIB off eBay for a song from someone who had a batch of them. I followed Pen Computing back in the day. Vertical market solutions have always been intriguing to me. We've come a very long way . . . hardware and gui-wise . . .
. . . but a KBD is still a necessity. :lol:

It looks like someone else has already made good use of a similar KBD in a display hack!
http://www.ebay.com/...em=200866277029

#51 markyb86

markyb86
  • 68000
  • LocationBedford, OH, USA

Posted 22 December 2012 - 12:21 AM

What mac is that? That's what I'm wondering. I know you mentioned IIsi but I have only seen fat ones? :O

Check out my blog and detailed computer listing http://markyb.applefool.com/

classillanow80.png Would love to own again: Laser Turbo XT, Magnavox 13" RGB/composite monitor, IBM ThinkPad 720


#52 Macdrone

Macdrone
  • 68020
  • LocationKelso, Wa

Posted 22 December 2012 - 12:54 AM

I think what he has the monitor on is a apple cd caddy cdrom. Looks like it could be a mac but pretty sure thats what it looks like.

Lots O' Macs, but now thinning the lots.


#53 Trash80toHP_Mini

Trash80toHP_Mini

    NIGHT STALKER

  • 68040
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Posted 22 December 2012 - 04:27 AM

Yep that's the Apple CD-SC. It wasn't working and the ATOM NetTop board was in need of a home, so it almost took up residence in there. I think the case is back in the project box with its bits, slated to for reassembly.

It looked like a Snow White Design Language Mac Mini to me at the time, so naturally, I was looking for a set of black peripherals. Couldn't find my black Belkin mini-mouse, so the tiny clear one stood in for it, the tombstone mouse is there for scale. I think the ATOMICmini has finally found a home in the ZipPlus, dunno, I've got another six months to go before that project is overdue for completion, the ATOM, not the ZipPlus . . .
. . . the MoBo I got eighteen months ago. :I

#54 olePigeon

olePigeon
  • 68LC040

Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:10 AM

My LCDs are Phillips 150S5FG.

#55 RickNel

RickNel
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  • LocationAustralia

Posted 04 March 2013 - 12:48 AM

by zuiko21 » 31 May 2012, 15:32
The monitor sense codes were very well thought, IMHO. First a bunch (0-6) of fixed resolutions, and the detected code (7) in the absence of monitor did halt video out. Then came the extended codes, read off a different method... from what would be seen by older cards as "7" (i.e., no monitor), avoiding damage to the unsupported monitor -- fixed freq. was rather common back in the day. 16" (832x642, 75 Hz) and 19" modes (1024x768, 75 Hz) were implemented this way.


This doesn't get enough attention. The sense code implementation is the main reason a lot of LCD monitors won't work with Compacts, even when they are nominally capable of appropriate sync rates. The Mac video chip is programmed to be adaptive, but to shut down if it doesn't recognise an acceptable static pattern on the 3 sense lines. Monitors with advanced VGA standard implementation will try to send a serial ID code over just one of those sense lines, and that can spook the Mac adapter into shutting down or sending the wrong sync signals. The monitors that work will be the ones that have VGA firmware that can detect an adapter mode that requires the deprecated passive ID sense codes, and to switch off the serial ID signal.

It's a mystery to me how the dip-switch adapter plugs handle this without any active electronics. They have to fool the Mac into believing the monitor has acceptable specs, and then rely on the monitor firmware to recognise the sync and adapt resolution to match. That's probably why success is a bit hit and miss.

Rick

68Ks: - 512ked, Plus, Classic, IIsi, Pwrbk 160, 190CS
PPCs: - G3 iMac x6, Pwrbk Wallst, iBook Clamshell x2, PowerMac x2, Studio Displays 15", 17", G4 eMac x 3, iMac Lamp 15" x2, Lamp 17" x2, Powerbook 15"


#56 RickNel

RickNel
  • 6502
  • LocationAustralia

Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:09 PM

I've just found another 17" LCD that works straight up and no fuss

Samsung Syncmaster 740A. ($15 from recycler)

This is a really good unit with telescopic stand for height adjustment and good onscreen menu.

Whatever upscaling it did, it had no problem at all with the 66Hz sync.

I wonder if we should start a list somewhere (a wiki, perhaps?) where people can add to the list any LCD monitors that they have been able to connect with a basic adapter. It could save others quite a bit of time and encourage saving of such monitors.

[BTW - mods.. when I access the wiki pages I just see plain text with basic HTML format, no style-sheet presentation. Is there a problem with the style-sheet or forum software there??]

68Ks: - 512ked, Plus, Classic, IIsi, Pwrbk 160, 190CS
PPCs: - G3 iMac x6, Pwrbk Wallst, iBook Clamshell x2, PowerMac x2, Studio Displays 15", 17", G4 eMac x 3, iMac Lamp 15" x2, Lamp 17" x2, Powerbook 15"


#57 Trash80toHP_Mini

Trash80toHP_Mini

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:44 AM

It's a mystery to me how the dip-switch adapter plugs handle this without any active electronics.

Someone posted a link to a table of the sense-coding setup somewhere, there is one diode involved in the mix, however active you want to call something that simple. ;)
I'll see if i can find it. Sounds like something I'd snag for local backup. }:)

#58 Aoresteen

Aoresteen
  • 6502

Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:42 AM

I've got three 14" lcds (1024x768 native) that I use with my Macs. The last one I bought I paid $10 for from a pawn shop - it's a Dell. The others are an HP & a no-name. They all worked well with my Quadra 605.

I've found that the issue is usally with the adapter not the monitor. For the Q605 make sure you have 1 MB VRAM (two video modules installed) and it will do 1024 x 768 with no issues. Both Sys 7.5.5 & OS 8.1. If you hare having issues get a different video adapter with switches & set them for 1024x768.
Tony Oresteen
Newnan, GA
128k Mac, 128k -> Plus, SE/30, IIci, Quadra 605, PM 9500, G3 Blue

#59 68kAlex

68kAlex
  • 6502
  • LocationUK

Posted 25 October 2013 - 09:41 AM

I must admit, this topic has me hugely confused!

I'm thinking about getting an LCD monitor for my LC475, both to take advantage of higher resolutions and against the inevitable day when my CRT packs in. The gist of this thread (from what I can make out) is that many LCD monitors don't work properly with 68k Macs, even with the appropriate Mac/VGA adapter. Is this the case?

I have my eye on an old Dell E151FPp monitor on ebay (1024x728 @ 75Hz native resolution). Is this likely to work, or will it require technical jiggery pokery?

Macs: LC475 | PowerBook 1400c/G3 | Macintosh Classic | iMac G3/500


#60 Trash80toHP_Mini

Trash80toHP_Mini

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:29 PM

Many VGA LCDs only sync @ 60Hz, which is a problem with many Macs which don't put out a 60Hz resolution. MultiSync type LCDs work with traditional Mac resolutions/sync rates.

You've got me curious about your report on the Q605:

video: 512 KB VRAM, expandable to 1 MB (remove both 256K VRAM SIMMs, plug in 512K replacements; supports 512 x 384, 640 x 480, 640 x 870, 832 x 624, 1024 x 768, and 1152 x 870 resolutions. We have a field report of an 800 x 600 option as well.

Did you try running it at 800 x 600?

As for 1024 x 768 @ 75Hz, Macs can run this @ 60, 67 & 75 Hz rates, depending on the Mac. Some will output @ 75Hz while others won't IIRC. A lot depends upon when the Mac was introduced. VGA and Mac resolutions/sync rates developed in parallel, converging as time passed. In much of the 68k Mac history, 60Hz was considered flickery on a CRT, which isn't an issue for LCDs. By the Quadra era VGA resolutions began to be supported by Macs.

edit: has anyone got a link to Mac resolution/scan rate chart? The closest thing I could find online was:
http://home.earthlin...mon-matrix.html (bottom of page)




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