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Cory5412

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Everything posted by Cory5412

  1. I love my 840av, and my love for the 840av is absolutely helping drive my desire for an 8500. it's kind of silly, because I've got a 6100, a Power120, a 7300/200 and an 8600/300, so it's not like I'm short on beige PowerPC per se. The worst part about that pre-K2(1) tower case really is that it's so brittle. Opening one is annoying, but opening it and then having all of the plastic pieces fall off is really the annoying thing. These days many of the 7-series and desktop Beige G3s are most of the way. (I'm like 70% sure the 8600/9600 case was nicknamed/codenamed "K2", in similar fashion to its contemporary the Outrigger on the 7200 through Beige G3 and InstaTower for 6400/6500. Anyone know whether or not that's true or if I entirely made that up? I'll look eventually.)
  2. Cory5412

    Centris 650 surprise

    Nice Find! It seems like case/badge swaps were common on these. I would like to do some benchmarks at some point, because the 950, 800-650, and 840 each have different go-fast tricks and might be suitable in different scenarios. The 800 (and I believe 650 should) can use interleaved RAM, and the 840 doesn't. The 950 of course has a higher RAM capacity and more expansion bays and slots. That's also before 040 upgrades and accelerators. I've got a friend with a 650 that's been upgraded and chipped and it's running at like 45 or so MHz. He does some Apple II dev stuff that if i remember correctly doesn't work on PowerPC, so that uplift is nice.
  3. haha, nice. DIdn't realize those would also work on PowerPC Macs. Performance-wise, that's likely similar to the DOS compatibility card for the 6100, One thought. Earlier up I mentioned cache sizes, and then in my car I realized that in this generation of machine, the caches were separate SIMMs installed on the motherboard, and weren't integrated on the CPU card. So, you could pop a bigger cache in if it doesn't already have 512k or 1Meg. One other thought: in the '90s Apple sold a 233MHz 604e upgrade card for owners of basically everything from 7500/100 to the /200MHz systems who wanted just a little bit of a push. (Or a lot, if you were on a 7500/100.) My official recommendation is to track down one of those! I think it would be real neat to run one of those and an 8500 loaded up with Apple-brand upgrades from the era would be really neat. You might even consider grabbing one of those LaCie-built external hard disks and if you don't already have one, a Multiple Scan 17/20 or AppleVision-ColorSync display, just to complete the look. To be honest, the 8500 isn't a machine I've thought an awful lot about and now I kind of want one myself.
  4. Cory5412

    ADC video card that works for 6400 ?

    That's not too bad, then. More than an equivalent display that just has DVI, VGA, and a USB hub would cost you, but worth it if you've got one of these displays and want to use it.
  5. Random 8500/8600 notes: It's super interesting to me to see people's thoughts on this machine because it feels like, both in 1995-1997 and today, everybody reads it a different way. It's really no different than a 7x00 but in a slightly bigger case with video output (and ultimately: faster CPUs) but the price rift between it and the 9500/9600 often meant the 8600 was seen as the highest end possible system for office or personal use, with the 9000s relegated to workgroup server or ultra high end graphics workstation uses, or Avid video editing setups where six PCI slots were absolutely mandatory. I too typically interpret the 8500/8600 (I'm being careful to frame it this way because the positioning absolutely changed from first to second gen) as a fairly high end content creation box, sitting above the 7500/7600, which have video input, which I tend to think of as being for video conferencing rather than multimedia work. The 8500 and 8600 also had faster video disks available, which the 7000 series did not, and as I mentioned above, more cache, even in otherwise matched configs (7300/200 and 8600/200, primarily). I suspect a lot of people using them as office boxes were mostly doing it because of the minitower form factor and growing display sizes (multiple scan 17s, 1705, and 20 being inexpensive and viable for high end excelbox functionality relative to a couple years prior), and not becaue they needed the second disk bay or a half-height drive or an a/v disk or video output or anything quite like that. Incidentally, I went ahead and looked at 8500 configs on everymac: 8500/120 1995-08-07 to 1996-04-01 8500/132 1996-04-22 - 1996-09-19 (same date as 8200/100 and 8200/120) 8500/150 1996-04-22 - 1996-09-19 8600/180 1996-09-19 - 1997-02-04 If this is accurate, the 8500 was technically discontinued entirely on April 1 1996 and then re-introduced entirely at two new speeds a couple weeks later and then speed-bumped to a single new speed later in the year. I'd be entirely unsurprised to find out that this information is wrong, however. ANd, customary to mid-late '90s Apple, you could absolutely have found one of these after discontinuation. Probably! Re that wire, they're informally referred to as bodge wires and on 68k boards you usually see them as in-place upgrades on early board revisions (which, probably not for an 8500 that shipped as a /150) or as impromptu fixes for bad traces during testing. So, there's a couple systems where you'll see a lot of different examples with the same fix and some where not many of them had that fix. So, I don't think it's a prototype. It's the last of at least three generations of machines to use its case and it's a mid-model speedbump, (I very sincerely don't know why there was three weeks where the 8500 was off the books entirely.) THe black case is very interesting. You could make the argument it's in part because Apple knew their beige plastics weren't going to hold up long term, I have books from 1993 that talk about how bad the Quadra 800's case is, compared to everything else Apple built, so it might have been an attempt to save the model or make things better who bought one ahead of what I presume Apple already knew about, the big redesign of the 8600/9600. This is a more interesting upgrade strategy than what I typically see, which basically involves an extremely formulaic approach to turning every PCI PowerMac 7000/8000/9000 into a worse version of a Power Macintosh G4. I love RAM and storage upgrades and I like all the weird little cards you could get for these things when they were new, and to a certain extent I see why people upgraded to G3s in-situ, especially before the prices on brand new Power Macs absolutely cratered in 1998. (It was to the point where a brand new G3 desktop only really cost a bit more than a G3 upgrade and some other upgraded parts for a PCI PowerMac would've cost.) Lifecycles in general fascinate me and I can see why in the early-mid 2000s people were interested in filling 9500s and the like with all the bits to make a Power Mac G4, because on the eve of the Intel-based PowerMacs, all the bits to upgrade a 9500 to run 10.4 pretty well were fairly cheap and it would be serviceable in its second or third life. I see why people are interested in that but I just am not. I've got a 6100 with one, the 7100/8100 didn't support it but the 7200 and all the other first round of PCI PowerMacs supported them, maybe it was a 7200?
  6. Very nice find, and great that you were able to get it running again! I know I say this every time but I'm going to vote for leaving it more or less stock, perhaps save a storage upgrade - whether that's a USCSI drive and contemporary disks or a SATA drive and some totally baller 2TB disks (the max the machine will run) - they'll be a huge boost for video capture in particular which is absolutely what an 8500 would love to do. Or: use period upgrades: If it doesn't already have it, I'd say to pop a VRAM upgrade in and if you want some contemporary fun, there was an Avid Cinema card for this machine, and there's also the PC Compatibility card with video input via GIMO, which the 8500 should have if I'm remembering correctly. There was a Rage card with some video compression and in/out that might be fun in this machine too, even though that would really be a better fit for a blue-and-white or a 7300. (It was also talked about in macworld at the time as an option to both add video and slightly better gamer graphics to a 6400 when those were new.) If you want, a /180 or /200 CPU from basically any other 604 powermac should run here and will probably get you a bit of a boost. If you can choose, 8600/9600 /200 CPUs have more cache than the ones from the 7300/7600[JP]. I largely still don't believe that system 7 really benefits much from a G3, except on paper in benchmarking scenarios. a blue-white G3 or a powermac G4 will probably run all that software faster if performance is your top priority. (i.e. building a powermac g3 out of an 8500 results in a worse powermac g3 than if you just built/bought a powermac g3) If you were to do video on it is probably the one exception, but even then I'd be tempted to leave it stock and just deal with waiting. An accessory you might look at is the apple quicktime conferencing kit, mostly just for the kick of doing isight style videos on '90s hardware. (I need to pull my own such cam out of storage). If you can source one, a quickdraw accelerator or an ISDN card would be a neat add, if not strictly speaking "practical." We talked about this on Twitter but that black interior frame is just wild to me. To be honest if I had this machine I'd very consider running it open because that frame kind of looks cool, compared to other machines I've seen. I don't really think it's a particularly early machine, I'd have to go check applespec or everymac but IIRC the 8500/150 was a later SKU even, following a /120 and /132, (but I could be mistaken, my apologies and I'll make a note of it if I go look and am wrong.) Also, the 8500's case uses mostly identical plastics to the 840 and 8100/8200, and perhaps even the 800, so that's certainly not early production, either. As stuff disintegrated, were you finding it was the black case or the other beige bits surrounding it?
  7. Cory5412

    ADC video card that works for 6400 ?

    Definitely a good note. Does anyone have a line on what the DVI to ADC adapters even cost these days? I don't want to imply that a 6400 isn't worth it but I'll put bet you can probably get something like a dell ultrasharp 1908FP cheaper at a local thrift store. When I last looked it Wasn't Cheap and they also don't support the 17-inch CRT Studio displays. I second the general recommendation to get a Cube if you want one anyway and use your ADC monitor with that system (or any other relevant powermac G4 or G5) and pick something a little easier to connect for the 6400 -- whether that's a Multiple Scan 14 or 15, which would be beautiful with it, or a 2000s 4:3/5:4 business LCD.
  8. Cory5412

    ADC video card that works for 6400 ?

    It's my understanding that this is a 5500/6500/TAM problem, and not a 6400 problem, because the onboard video on the 5500/6500/TAM was, itself, an ATi Rage. (Or perhaps just because of weirdnesses with the platform, I've heard both explanations.) Those cards all work fine in the 7000/8000 series Macs, and I believe also the 4400, which use the same graphics the 6360/6400/5400 do, so I have no real reason to believe it would be a problem in a 6400. "Stick a Rage in it" was pretty much MacAddict's recommendation for the 6400 when they were new, too. Heck, I don't think this is a good idea, but as far as I know nothing is stopping a Mac PCI Radeon 9200 or 9250 from running in a 6400.
  9. Cory5412

    ADC video card that works for 6400 ?

    Yeah... probably. That or they pulled bakc on advertised resolutions because some of the RAM is expected to be used for textures, or to push sales of Radeon 8000/9000, still, jarring to see for exactly the reason you stated, cards with much less VRAM will happily do that res.
  10. Cory5412

    ADC video card that works for 6400 ?

    From that page: I'm absolutely baffled that a 32-meg Radeon 7000 won't do 1920x1200 or 1600x1200? That feels like it can't possibly be an actual technical limitation of the hardware.
  11. Cory5412

    Solid State Drive for G3?

    No such limitation with PCI PATA cards, provided that the cards are themselves new enough to not have the LBA48 limit, which is what that 128 gig thing is, with not only G3s, but most G4s up through either the MDD or the QS'02 and 867/1000 TiBook. SATA and SCSI don't have the limit, but an IDE card that's from the same period as a beige (or even early G4s) will.
  12. Cory5412

    Solid State Drive for G3?

    The only real disadvantage to using a SCSI2SD in this scenario is that the Beige G3 can take some advantage of newer disks with better performance on its IDE bus and/or coming off of its IDE slots.(1) If the machines boot up in the morning and run one program all day, that benefit isn't going to be noticed, I suspect. You might be able to use the energy saver control panel to schedule a boot up a few minutes before you expect anyone to need the machine and then put the application you use in the startup items folder so the app you want is running when you open the door and turn on the lights. (1) As a footnote: I say "some" because in my experience the Classic Mac OS (7/8/9) is a flaming pile and its performance doesn't really scale upward with better storage. Largely, the newer and faster an OS9 machine you run, the more likely it is to do stuff like just stall out at random points or rapidly switch between feeling really fast and feeling impossibly slow. This is why most of the time when people talk about decking out Power Mac G4s, my comment is that what they're really building is something that would be great at running all the same software you could get in the late OS9 era, more reliably and faster overall, on OS X 10.3/4/5. I get that Mac OS 9 is a unique experience, even if you run literally all the same software on it - I even prefer it, I just think it's not worth wasting the money on upgrades that don't really improve the experience. The same applies to having a lot of RAM and the same mostly applies to really fast processors. And Ethernet upgrades, to be perfectly honest.
  13. Cory5412

    Macintosh LC475 & Apple 7100 video card

    The PowerPC Gen1 PDS video cards are completely incompatible with 68k Macs. Even if the connectors are the same.
  14. All my Macs with soft power (8600, beige g3, 840av, for example) work fine powering on via the IIgs keyboard's reset/power button.
  15. One possibility: Try a higher end SSD from a different brand. I've yet to actually try any in my G5. Regarding SSD backward compatibility, most of the PCs people bother putting SSDs in have 3 gigabit SATA (SATA II), but I'd be highly interested in whether anyone's bothered to put an SSD in something like an OptiPlex GX270 or GX280, which have the original SATA spec. (Another good one might be ThinkPad Z60.) Every SSD I've ever used has successfully scaled back from 6 to 3 gigabit SATA for use in machines from the Core2 era, but I don't have much that's older and has SATA. I hear a lot more about G5s having problems with newer/faster SSDs and I don't know if it's the SSD's "fault" or the G5's "fault" - and I don't hear anything about very old PCs, but that's at least as likely to be because I'm just not in old PC communities as it is to be because old PCs didn't have problems like this. I have a couple of 10.6 machines with their original spinning hard disks from 2006, usually fairly midrange. One's a Mac Pro 1,1 and one's a Mac Mini 2,1. It's Pretty Good by the standards of modern computers with conventional/spinning hard disks installed on them. Mac OS X 10.13+ (and really this has been the case for several years) are really really bad on spinning disks, and Windows 10 is better but still not good on one. Mac OS X 10.6 boots really fast and searches quickly and just generally works really well on relatively ho-hum disks from 2006. Would there be a performance boost? Yes. Is that performance boost important? Depends on what you're doing. Applications and OSes didn't expect always-instant high-IOPS storage the way modern environments do.
  16. Cory5412

    Is the Wiki dead?

    Got encryption up: https://dokutest.68kmla.org/doku.php There's some Conversations(TM) to be had, and I don't 100% know where yet, about some different things. The first and most obvious one is what namespaces to use: https://dokutest.68kmla.org/doku.php?id=thinking_about_namespaces I made some sample pages for a hypothetical way the "MacDex" could be organized on an internal Doku installation I've got, I'll put some of that up at some point. My thought there was to combine model families into a single page. For example, all 6100 variants on one page, all 6200 variants on one page, and so on, and then enumerate the as-shipped differences between them using a table. Each of those things should probably become its own page though.
  17. Cory5412

    Solid State Drive for G3?

    I'm glad we've been able to help! More RAM in these generally causes a longer power-on self test, and so that might be the culprit. More VRAM won't help with that, but upgrading to 6 megs of VRAM on these system is very nice anyway. You'll be able to use higher resolution displays and/or more colors. I think (but haven't had a chance to test) that 6 megs should get you 1600x1200 at millions. If you're using Mac OS 8 or 9, more RAM on its own doesn't really help performance the way it does on Windows XP+ and OSX. More RAM really helps with being able to open more programs at once, and/or run a fuller system folder, which uses RAM or being able to open more files or larger files within a single program, with a larger memory allocation. Most of my daily OS9 machines have anywhere from 160 to 320 megs of RAM. Having well-matched RAM or known compatible/good RAM can help with stability, especially on the Beige G3 which is in my experience a little picky with RAM.
  18. Cory5412

    Performa 6200CD needs an ethernet card

    For the 630,6200,6300 and related AIOs (580,5200,5300): I'd argue LCPDS vs. CommSlot 1 doesn't really matter because there's not much widely available for the LCPDS slot that makes sense or even works at all in a 630+. After Ethernet, the next most common things are IIe cards and 68882 FPUs, neither of which work in a 630, After that, there are a variety of Interesting(TM) things, but they're very uncommon and some of them weren't available within the US at all. (For example: the picpom tuner/vidcap accessories.) There's also the PAS16 sound card, which, again, interesting if you can find one and graphics cards, which again if you can find one and also they're largely unimpressive video cards by the standards of, say, the LC475's onboard video, which can do 1152x870@256, or the Quadra 700/900 onboard video, which can do 1152x870@Millions and have NuBus slots for graphics cards that can do more, if you need that kind of thing. Or: If you're so lucky as to find something more interesting for an LCPDS slot, knock yourself out. It would be a great option for a 575 (which can run the IIe card IIRC). But for almost anything else, if you need that particular functionality (better audio, dual displays, etc) then there are machines that are outright better options. $25 for a CS1 Ethernet card is as good a deal as any, but if they're that uncommon, I'm kind of tempted to say to leave them to the 575 people who want to use IIe cards. (Presuming I'm not mis-remembering that that even works - if not, then that's not worth it either.) And, if you need both serial pots on a 630/580+ you can always just pull the modem card. Having something filling every hole isn't really a requirement.
  19. Cory5412

    Solid State Drive for G3?

    I just meant that it was weird that my (IDE) CD-ROM was misbehaving due to an error on the SCSI bus. However, my bad/apologies for the misdirection, it appears the fault here really was the drive itself and not the bus or the scsi2sd. There are a lot more total configurations than that, there were the 333s as well, desktop /300s, the servers, a whole range of /233 and /266 options at launch replicating the 7300-7600-8600 family the BeigeG3 replaced, plus the on-the-books-but-never shipped 366MHz family.
  20. Cory5412

    Is the Wiki dead?

    http://dokutest.68kmla.org/doku.php I'll get it renamed (I copied an instance i made for my personal domain) and get SSL set up and get some other things running at some point. I'm very busy during November so I can't guarantee when that will be.
  21. Cory5412

    Solid State Drive for G3?

    It's possible I'm misremembering, in that case. I had the machine on my desk for several months and tried to do a handful of different things with it, so it's possible that I had that problem at some other time. I did something, the machine didn't like it, and when the machine was in that config, the CD-ROM and Zip drives didn't work. I undid whatever it was and they both started working again. Which, again, yeah, I know, weird because the CD-ROM drive is IDE and if I remember correctly the stock Zip drives (mine's a /300) are SCSI. At any rate: If it does this without the SCSI2SD installed, then, replacing the CD-ROM drive with another IDE one would be the easy way forward. If you have more than one Beige G3, you might consider just installing your scsi2SD in the second G3 machine and using that to copy stuff to it, or swapping the CD drives around, whichever seems easiest.
  22. Cory5412

    Solid State Drive for G3?

    I'm just curious because I have a v6 and my system started doing weird things (Zip drive and CD drive not working) that persisted until I took it out and restored the original disk. I guess my question is: If you take out the SCSI2SD, does the CD drive start working again? If so, the SCSI2SD is probably still not quite configured correctly, in some way.
  23. Cory5412

    Solid State Drive for G3?

    Thinking about this further, I'm becoming more certain that in my own Beige G3, I never got the SCSI2SD running fully and I gave up on using it in the Beige G3 and instead installed it in my 8600. I left the default config in, expanded the volume size to 31 gigs, and used LaCie Silverlining on a Zip disk while booted to an OS 9.1 install CD to partition and format it.
  24. Cory5412

    Is the Wiki dead?

    As a follow-up to this: I'm pretty sure that the path forward I would like to take is to build out a new wiki using DokuWiki. I have been trying out running a local instance on a flash drive for a few weeks, and wthww, our site's technical administrator is intimately familiar with it for work purposes. It looks simple to deploy and easy to get started with. I can spin up a test instance on my server at home under a URL like "testwiki dot 68kmla dot org" which should allow for some initial content migration and then we can copy the entire thing over to the 68kMLA's real hosting (or: continue hosting it at my house, to be honest) and start building out some content. I think that blindly copying everything we have is the wrong strategy, and I think part of building buy-in will involve the community deciding how things should be presented. In a big sense, this means things like deciding how to structure pages of the MacDex (which I've nicknamed the test section on my own install, but to be honest, I think it's a good name in general) and what things are relevant. There will be work involved in copying and organization, and I am going to ask the community at large for help doing it. There's some discussions we'll have to have at the leadership level on what we want our policies and procedures for the wiki to be, so I can't gaurantee anything right now, but I think it'll meet our needs and solve some of the problems I mentioned above that we have with MediaWiki.
  25. Cory5412

    AppleTalk net cable

    Hm. I'll have to take a look, then. I've got an ET/LT adapter and one phonenet adapter that I wanted to use but something's been going sideways when I try. (Like, the machine crashes). It might just be something misconfigured in the software, but, it's weird because I can do a single serial cable LT network fine on that machine. That could also be weirdness introduced by that particular ET/LT bridge, too. It's been just shy of fifteen years since I had any localtalk gear active, and I know i have some of the terminators. To be clear: To the best of my recollection, only phonenet networks had terminators. Apple's own connectors had termination built in.
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