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Franklinstein

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Everything posted by Franklinstein

  1. Franklinstein

    Boxed 4400/200

    I picked this up a couple months ago but haven't finished it until now. Thanks to @jessenator I was able to get the missing hard drive carrier. Though not commonly sold in Asia, this is a proper 4400 instead of a 7220. It is badged as a "Performa Package" computer, specifically configured as a "Private Series Graphic Model," bundled with a CS modem and a number of basic graphics programs. Unfortunately, though it's boxed, the outer box is a little tattered and the larger of the two interior boxes with the keyboard and mouse are missing, as are all software disks other than the Mac OS 8 CD. As a consolation, though, it did come with a surprise: a 240MHz L2 G3 upgrade from none other than Japan's favorite producer of Mac upgrades, Interware! Fortunately the G3 upgrade works with generic PowerLogix drivers. I have upgraded it to 64MB RAM, a 10/100 Ethernet card, a USB/FW combo card, and an 8GB Fireball CX, all running with Mac OS 8.6.
  2. Franklinstein

    Apple PHX 100

    Anyone ever hear of one of these? They're essentially a 6200/75 with just the Apple logo and "PHX 100" in the sticker on the front; it doesn't say Macintosh or Performa or anything on it. Cursory searches only turn up a few hits with no real info. I thought maybe it's part of an early production run or sold as a special kit that never really got public attention, like a specialized corporate or educational order.
  3. Franklinstein

    Dual 600MHz Cube

    The only chip that is pin-compatible with the 7400/7410 is the original 750, and that would be a step backward. All of the later 74xx series chips are different either because they use on-die L2 cache or they have on-die L2 plus external L3 cache; in either case the pins are different not only from each other, but from the preceding 7400 models. Also, as mentioned, the later chips have a different and greater power requirement that would need addressed even if you could physically mount them. So it looks like the maximum speed with a 7410 is going to be about 600MHz.
  4. Franklinstein

    Apple PHX 100

    Actually, nowhere in that entire Dev Note does it mention system bus speed, so I can understand where there may be some confusion because of this omission; totally Apple's fault here. This is amended in the later 6300's Dev Note (again, the guy's using the 6200's Dev Note to talk about the 6300) but for reference, the 52/62xx uses a 37.5MHz system bus. This bus clock, provided by a single oscillator and central clock generator chip, is used by the processor for its external transactions (internally it is clocked at 2x bus), and it is also the base clock for Capella and F108 and by extension the L2 cache and system RAM. The clock generator chip provides Primetime with a separate 16MHz clock to run the CS/LC PDS slots, in addition to various other clock frequencies used throughout the system. According to Motorola's user manual for the 603, this is a non-standard and unsupported configuration: the 603 is designed to only run at 1, 2, 3, or 4x bus speed, with a variety of supported bus speeds. However, 37.5 is not one of them; the 75MHz part is designed to be run at 3x a 25MHz bus. while the fastest 1:1 speed available for the 603 is 66MHz. In addition, no Apple support chips in existence at that time could operate beyond 50MHz, let alone up to 66MHz. If they did, don't you think the 9500 would operate at the same speed? Why would their flagship have slower parts than their cheapest machine? Anyway the later 53/63xx is the same except it has a standard 40MHz system bus and now the 603e supports half multipliers, which is how we get 100MHz clocks from a 40MHz base (40x2.5). The rest of the clocks and Primetime's operation are still the same.
  5. Franklinstein

    Apple PHX 100

    Small correction regarding full-speed external caches: It could technically be argued that the Pentium Pro uses an external cache, because the cache and CPU are built individually on two separate dies, but I contend that it doesn't: this cache is built in the same process as the CPU and the two are ultimately bonded together in the same processor module. They are intertwined to such a degree that any error in bonding or in either die rendered the entire module as scrap; it couldn't be reworked, unlike a faulty memory module mounted externally. Thus, I define the PPro's cache as internal. The Slot 2 Pentium II and III Xeons used a similar approach: the CPU and cache modules are both built on the same process as the CPU but this time all of the chips are attached to a carrier board on a special full-speed cache bus. These are proper external caches running at full processor speed, but nothing else in the system is on this bus or runs at this speed except the L2 cache; everything else is accessed by the 100MHz FSB (the later 133MHz FSB PIII Xeons use small on-die L2 caches, negating the argument and ultimately the need for a slot-based processor). Regardless, both processors were targeted at the maximum performance money-is-no-object end of the IT field and both ended up in a variety of Top 500 Supercomputers (such as Sandia's ASCI Red) while the 603 was used in zero, so I wasn't totally inaccurate.
  6. Franklinstein

    Apple PHX 100

    Try running a 68k version of MacBench on the 6100 and original 62xx for comparison. The only valid complaint against these machines is that 68k emulation suffered on the 6200 compared to its contemporaries or successor models, and if MB4 is a fat binary or PPC native you won't not notice the effect with a native PPC comparison with the 6100. Nothing outside of supercomputers ran external cache at CPU speed, ever, at least not once CPU speed started to decouple from bus speeds in 1990-something. No way Apple was going to pay for 100MHz SRAMs for a bargain basement computer. If they could even get 100+MHz SRAMs in 1995, they would have put them in the 9500. Guess what? They didn't: the 9500 ran its L2 between 40 and 50MHz depending on processor bus speed. All Apple L2 caches ran at logic board bus speed until the 9600/300 and 350, which had specially designed processor cards that ran the onboard L2 cache at 100MHz (while ignoring the slower logic board cache), which is still far less than the 300/350MHz of the processor clock. Then of course there were the G3s and G4s with backside caches, and those never ran faster than 50% of clock speed, usually less. The whole point and largest benefit of an L2 cache is to have low-overhead SRAM memory (read: no refresh cycles required) available directly to the processor without having to go through/wait for other chips or narrower buses to get there. The 603 processor can only talk to external devices including L2 cache at logic board bus speeds, especially since not only is L2 directly on the 60x bus in these machines, but so is the ROM and Capella, and I guarantee none of those are capable of 100MHz operation. As for a bottleneck between CS and LC PDS? I never said this was an exclusive problem for the 6200; it affects anything with Primetime including the Q630 and LC 575. Two networking cards could be problematic, if it was even possible to use legacy Mac OS simultaneously on two different domains or network types. Or CS Ethernet and a PDS video card. Or on the 575, CS Ethernet and a IIe card. It's not likely a problem anyone would encounter often, but there's the potential for degradation if both slots were active simultaneously, especially since they're both only 16MHz slots that may share the same '030 bus (the dev note isn't terribly clear if it's two '030 buses or one shared) and the Primetime has other things to do in addition to managing both expansion slots. My point was that there were a few errors or omissions in the guy's page, not that every word he typed was wrong; its still better than the LEM BS.
  7. If you notice from the above diagram, all of the boards referenced are PCI-based, both Alchemy (EDO boards, 3.3v always required from harness) and Gazelle (225MHz+ boards, 3.3v in question). Since both types of boards work in the same chassis, the harness must always supply 3.3v to the logic board. This suggests that the Gazelle boards do require 3.3v, or at least expect it to be supplied whether it's used or not. As for harness part numbers, there may be more than one: the harness itself is physically identical to that originally built for the Q630, the only difference being power wiring and possibly cable lengths to suit different cases through the years. So there could be both a mold part number and a wiring loom part number printed/molded onto the part, both of which may be different from the actual Apple part number. The '90s were a confusing time at Apple. While i do have the other harnesses handy, I don't have a 55/65xx to compare to. Maybe I can look at the TAM if i can see the harness from the back without disassembling it.
  8. I have seen several references that supposedly the 55/65xx Gazelle boards have an onboard 3.3v regulator which allows them to be installed into an older chassis (Quadra 630, Performa 588, 52/62/53/63xx and similar machines) without supplying 3.3v from the power supply like the Alchemy boards (from 54/64xx machines) require. However, upon trying this, I have had no luck: the boards either refuse to boot, or something doesn't work properly; for me they'll only work in machines where they're supplied 3.3v from the power supply. I have tried a couple different Gazelle boards in a few different non-3.3v chassis and had the same results: no boot, or weird problems with disk access or something that disappears when these boards are used in a proper 3.3v chassis or the original boards are reinstalled. Does anyone have experience of installing a Gazelle board into an older (pre-54/64xx/6360) chassis without modification? Or is this just a misconception?
  9. Im really only interested because I'd like to speed bump my other MPC-LX200 from its 6300-based board to a 55/6500-based board without modifying the harness. I tried directly swapping it but after powering up there was no chime and an acrid smell causing me to immediately abort that experiment. Restoring the original 6300 board to the MPC resulted in it booting just fine, while the 5500 board booted up when it was installed in a 5400 chassis. This isn't the first time I've experienced failure doing this sort of swap though, hence the question of whether anyone has verified success doing it.
  10. I think it's more of a thing in the mod community, specifically with those building a Power Color Classic. It's easier to build a PCC without a 3.3v power supply for PCI-based boards, but supposedly some people were able to install a 55/6500 board without the 3.3v supply because it's supposed to have an onboard 3.3v VRM that operates from either the existing 5v or 12v lines. If that was the case, though, why do 55/6500 harnesses supply 3.3v to the board? Maybe the TAM board has one since apparently its big external power unit doesn't supply 3.3v, but I'm more inclined to believe that its 3.3v power supply is inside the main body, not on the logic board.
  11. Franklinstein

    Apple PHX 100

    Yeah thats it. Im not going to deconstruct the whole thing, but quick and obvious examples are where it says "L2 runs at processor speed," when L2 actually runs at logic board speed (37.5 or 40MHz), and missing that the Primetime II (III in the 6300) provides the '030 bus for both the LC PDS and CS slot, which can hamper performance if both cards are populated and used simultaneously. Then there's the fact that all of the comparisons were based on the improved 6300 when the original and primary gripe was with the 62xx (which he sort of hand-waves away at the end).
  12. Franklinstein

    Apple PHX 100

    Yeah we've been down this road with the 52/62xx before. In summary: LEM wrote a bunch of crap on the internet that a lot of people (including myself those many years ago) initially took seriously, and then some guy wrote a rebuttal that's more correct but still has errors, but the long and short of it is that in truth the 52/62xx is essentially a Quadra 63x with a built-in PPC upgrade, so there are several bottlenecks present that hamper performance due to the extensive cost-cutting and/or drive for backwards compatibility. Also, the 603 with its 8k+8k split cache was too small to hold the 68k emulator in L1, so performance with 68k code suffered. If either the L1 was a unified 16k, as it was in the 601 (though the 601 had 32k unified), or it was larger, as it is with the 603e's 16k+16k, 68k code emulation performance would have been vastly improved. This is why the later 53/63xx boards with 100 or 120MHz 603e processors felt so much faster despite being architecturally identical. That being said, the 52/62xx wasn't really that bad unless you were running exclusively 68k programs, and even then they were still at least as fast as the 68k boxes they replaced. Could it have been better? Sure, if you wanted to spend more money. But if you wanted to spend more money, you'd get a 7200 or 7500. These were also built with both CS and LC PDS slots in addition to (two unpaired) 72-pin RAM slots, so you can take your old Quadra 630 or LC 575, pull out its extra RAM and expansion cards (except the IIe card; those won't work here), and drop them into your new 52/62xx. An excellent choice for business or education customers with legacy devices they could reuse for additional cost savings. Anywho, pictures are below. You'll notice that, aside from the badging on the front, there's nothing special about this thing: it's a 62xx/75 by a different name. As I figured, the hard drive was gone, so there's no telling what may have been installed on it. It does come with both the TV tuner and A/V input card, though, which I figure would be a little out of place on an office drone's work computer.
  13. Franklinstein

    3D Printing old PowerBook parts?

    Im not sure anyone would be willing to pay $1000 for a 5300 with new plastics (or $600ish for plastics alone) but with enough awareness raised in conjunction with the clear SE case, maybe we would be surprised. Anyway you'd need at least 6 molds: the black-and-white models use different display housings than the color ones, and the ce model may too so that would be 8 molds. Plus the brightness/contrast buttons, that long piece under the display, the two clutch covers, the I/O port door, probably the PC card flaps, maybe the floppy drive case too. If people were willing to pre-order re-cased 5300 models i have probably 50 of them in various states of case destruction that could be lined up for sale assembled in the new case to drive interest.
  14. Franklinstein

    Boxed 4400/200

    Nah clock speed is still original bus dependent. Thats why i was wondering above if there existed a version that would operate in both the 4400 and/or 54/64xx (40MHz) and the 55/6500/TAM (50MHz), maybe by simply running faster in the latter than the former. The model I got in this one is the Booster 4400 240/512k, using a 233MHz 750 with a slight upclock. It's enough of a boost to be worth using but I doubt I would have bought it new, at least if i had the cache card installed. 300 or better would have been more what I would have gone for.
  15. Franklinstein

    Boxed 4400/200

    Yeah these things didn't get a lot of love so I was surprised to find one in a box, albeit a bit abused. It looks like the Interware L2 G3 upgrade was built specifically (and originally) for the 4400/Tanzania, but the Alchemy board is nearly the same so it likely didn't require much reworking to get it to work in the 54/64xx when Interware decided to release one for them. Unless of course the later L2 upgrade worked in both the 54/64 and 55/65 instead of one or the other; then it would've needed a lot of tweaking to support both effectively (I have no info either way). I don't have any problems with the FW/USB combo card in this one; usually it's the Gazelle-based 55/65xx/TAM that have the bridge problems. It may help that my combo card has external power instead of PCI-supplied power, but I dunno. According to the box, it was bundled with: System 7.6.1 (amended to include OS 8 ) Apple Internet Starter Kit ClarisWorks 4.0 ANGEL SOFT Dr.SURF for Macintosh Ver2.0 Infogallery MUSIC NAVIGATOR NIFTY Manager Claris HomePage Painter 4.0 Adobe PhotoShop LE ImagePad TWO for Macintosh ... and a few other things with too much Kanji for me to read. I assume the last three things were what made this the Graphics model.
  16. Franklinstein

    Apple PHX 100

    They probably came with ClarisWorks and Claris Emailer (if it wasn't bundled in the same suite) and maybe some third-party apps. Maybe that was the big selling point wit these: a large third-party library specifically tailored to business. Either way I have no idea; the one I bought comes with just the bare unit and I'm 90% sure the hard drive will be gone. Anyway I'd imagine the 6200 was grouped in for the people/businesses whose only demands were that it be PPC at the lowest price point, same as the reason it was built in the first place: cheapest PPC they could make, but also widely compatible with hardware and software they already own. Apparently a lot of these things didn't even come with a keyboard, just a mouse.
  17. Franklinstein

    Apple PHX 100

    That's interesting. I wonder why there are no records of this? You'd figure hardcore Apple geeks would have been in the know. Maybe it was a very specifically targeted campaign aimed at the Asian business market? I doubt most office drones bother to look at the make/model of their computer, let alone remember what they used nearly 30 years ago, so this particular bit of history is nearly lost to time unless someone manages to turn up some sales material referencing these machines.
  18. Franklinstein

    Factory options for G4 GbE

    Yeah those part numbers for the drives don't always mean anything specific; they're Apple internal and usually they just spec speed and/or capacity, not make/model. If you're trying to build a perfect as-shipped Mac, you'll also want to get the ones with the Apple marks on them. That being said, as mentioned these were mostly Quantum or WD, maybe Maxtor, possibly IBM or Seagate. The SCSI drives were most probably either IBM or Seagate, though they could have been Quantum Atlas series drives. At the time this computer was new, Apple wasn't really using Hitachi, Samsung, or Fujitsu 3.5" drives.
  19. Franklinstein

    Help resurrecting a 7500/100

    If you're not planning to fill out your PCI slots with other things, you can get one of those ATA or possibly SATA cards to go in there. The cards are usually cheap (~$20-30) and if you've already got a spare ATA drive sitting around, it'll cost less than one of the SCSI2SD boards.
  20. Franklinstein

    Apple PHX 100

    I bought one, along with a beat-up Quadra 630, for $20 on Yahoo! Auctions. They should be here in a couple days and I'll put up a few pictures. I figure it's either a pre-production unit or rebadged for inclusion in some sort of custom set. The more or less complete lack of info could point either way. A review of the logic board will help: if it's one of the 100MHz units and has "PHX" on it somewhere then it's probably a preproduction unit.
  21. Franklinstein

    PowerBook 2400c with goodies

    I bought this lot because it included very uncommon accessories: the fabled Yu-Plan keyboards. Years ago I heard tell of a green variant of this keyboard but almost never see reference to it anywhere, let alone one available for sale, even though they're US-standard layout. Mine are not green, but apparently there were at least two options available: a black version and a clear version. The computer itself is in excellent shape (and has been upgraded to a 320MHz G3 and 112MB of RAM) and has the black one installed, leaving a clear one for me to install on a different machine. Also included were two extra displays and the guts of another mostly stock 2400c/180 (no idea where the rest of it went), two floppy drives, a few non-Apple accessories, and the PowerBook 2400c Perfect Guide, a Japanese book detailing the development history of the 2400 series and cataloging all of the accessories and popular modifications available for it.
  22. Franklinstein

    Help resurrecting a 7500/100

    ROM is usually soldered on those. Look for four near-identical mid-size DIP chips. They should have an Apple copyright date on them. You will require VRAM to be installed if you want video output. These are the four mini-DIMM slots toward the back. If they're all empty you'll have problems. Also try booting with the L2 cache removed, if present. If you get no chime, video, or attempted disk access, to me this suggests a bad CPU, bad PS, or bad logic board. You can use the 8500 to test the 601 card. If that doesn't work, suspect the PS or logic board. The 8500's PS would work in the 7500 but the G3's, while in a physically similar case if a DT model, has different connectors and won't work.
  23. If SilverLining won't touch it without the password you may be able to force a reformat on it with a different Mac utility (such as FWB Hard Disk Toolkit, APS PowerTools, CharisMac Anubis), or you may possibly have to use a PC to reformat it first. If you want to recover data on it I have no idea.
  24. Franklinstein

    Best macOS version for IIci?

    For 68k? Not much, I don't think. Maybe something to do with OpenTransport or that CFM68k runtime extension but I think those were bigger deals in 8.1. Im sure some web browsers would still run in 7.6.1 that wouldn't on prior OS versions. For PPC? 7.6.1 is generally regarded as lighter, faster, and more stable than any version of 7.5, supposedly because it has enhanced 68k emulation routines and more PPC native code. It's generally what i run on NuBus PPC Macs because I don't need 8.6 for USB or FW support because they obviously can't be used. Also, OS 8 started making some changes to the core of the Mac OS, most noticeable at 8.5 and 9.0, that broke some apps and extensions. System 7.6.1 keeps maximum compatibility while providing the best PPC experience under System 7.
  25. Franklinstein

    Best macOS version for IIci?

    Apple allows you to install up to 7.6.1 on the IIci. There are 3rd party programs (WishIWere, maybe?) that will allow you to change the gestalt ID and install up to 8.1, which is best with a 68040 upgrade. You need a PPC upgrade card for anything after 8.1. Honestly the IIci is best with 7.1 or 7.5, depending on what software you want to run. You need lots of RAM for a comfortable OS 8 experience. System 7.1 is happy with 4MB. System 7.5 wants at least 8MB, 16 or more to avoid thrashing your HD with VM swaps.
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