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Everything posted by trag

  1. trag

    1MB cache

    Okay, the firmware module (ROM) pinout is up at http://www.io.com/~trag/Apple_pinouts/ No, I am not suggesting that the PowerSurge cache would work in the NuBus machines. I'm just saying that the ROM pinout is similar to the x100 cache pinout. The Power Surge cache slot may (or may not) be a different animal entirely.
  2. trag

    What to do with a 7200?

    Because the AMP made CPU socket is no longer available unless you order over 1000 of them so it is worth it to AMP to do another run. And that information is about eight years old, so it may not be available any more period. So, if you wanted to do a CPU pass-through, you'd have to do something like a ZIF socket and give up the ability to use a pre-G3 CPU. Ignoring the socket problem, there's still the signal integrity issue of putting more connectors between the motherboard and the CPU.
  3. trag

    66MHz PCI in PCI PowerMacs?

    Well, it's true that the PCI bus on the PowerSurge machines is clocked in exactly the way he writes. I'm surprised that the PCI clock buffer, the PCI arbiter and especially Bandit will work at 66 MHz though. I'm especially surprised that Bandit will still synch up with the CPU bus if you're running the PCI side at 66 MHz, but I guess it isn't too surprising since Bandit must adjust to many possible CPU bus speeds as well. They would have had to use a synchronization method which is largely independent of specific clock rates. Oh, and I guess Grand Central and probably CURIO would need to run at the increased speed as well.
  4. The 7500 power supply will work in the 7200. I don't have a spare because I have only one, which is what I use to test x500 motherboards. You can convert an ATX, if you put an inverter on the soft-power-on line. I think instructions are in an article at xlr8yourmac.com. But it might be difficult to find an ATX supply the right shape for the 7200/7500 case. An 8500/9500 power supply would also work electrically, but won't fit.
  5. These folks have the peltier/heat sink combo for $2 each. http://www.shrevesystems.com/misc.html I don't know what they'll charge you for shipping though. There should be a pair of pins near the CPU to supply the 12V.
  6. trag

    What to do with a 7200?

    Okay this one is way out there, but... The 7200 has a working Bandit chip and PCI arbiter chip on board. With some work (okay, a *lot* of work) you could put the Bandit and arbiter on a board, plug the board into a Umax S900's secondary CPU slot and add three PCI slots to the S900... I have the necessary pinouts figured out...
  7. trag

    What to do with a 7200?

    The 7300 uses a slightly different connector on the power supply. The 7200 power supply is compatible with the 7500, 8500 and 9500. The 7500 and 8500 will fit in the 7200 case because it is identical to a 7500 case and the 8500 is built on the same circuit board as the 7500.
  8. trag

    What to do with a 7200?

    Well, technically, the 7200's Hardware Developer Notes say that it can take a 256MB DIMM, so having twice as many slots doesn't really give the 7500 a higher RAM capacity in theory. The fact that no one ever made a compatible DIMM with 256 MB on board is a technicality.
  9. I would lay fairly long odds that what you have is an overheating processor. I've been there, brother. Up all night with a 7100, which had tested out okay, sold to a coworker and flaked out on his wife. Reinstall the OS--> problems. Finally get the OS installed. Run some tests. More problems after a couple of hours. Finally I saw some screen artifacts which reminded me of the same artifacts I had on a Power120. I cleaned the CPU and heat sink, replaced the heat sink grease and all the problems vanished. Sooooo, if you have not yet burned that poor, maligned 7200, pull the heat sink (or if it's a 7200/120, heat sink/peltier combo) clean the white powdering residue off with some unadulterate rubbing alcohol (just alcohol and water, no scents, oils, colors, etc.) and then replace the grease with a dab and replace the heat sink. The grease is available from Radio Shack for about $3 in a blue and white tube on a card which can hang on a peg board. At least, that's how they used to package it. I think they call it "Heat Sink Compound". You can use the expensive Arctic Silver stuff for $15+ instead, but my experience is that the Radio Shack stuff works about as well in most uses. Only put a dab on. It's just filling the tiny imperfections between the flat heat sink and flat CPU die (the square in the middle). Plus if the stuff runs off onto the pins of the CPU it can short them out. I killed a board that way, many years ago when they were still worth hundreds of dollars. PPC601s run hot. The grease Apple used on them turns to useless powder after a while. At which point the CPU becomes unreliable and the errors wander all over the machine, becaues the CPU is randomly belching. Anyone with a 7100 definitely needs to replace the heat sink grease. The 7200 is probably about due for it too. BTW, if you do have a 7200/120 and don't have the Peltier/heat sink combo, then you need one. That's the heat sink with the unit under it which plugs into the 12V connector on the MB next to the CPU. The PPC601 will not operate at 120 reliably without active cooling. It's only rated to 100 with passive cooling.
  10. trag

    RealTek Drivers

    I have been told that the SIIG USB/Firewire/Gb Enet card will work in the PCI Mac using the RealTek drivers for the 10/100/1000 ethernet. The fellow was actually writing about a generic version of the card which was briefly available from the factory which made the SIIG cards, but they're identical (except the price, $80 vs. $15). Strangely, from what I understand the USB/FW/10/100 card does not work well in Macs. If you need 10/100 Nubus cards email me and maybe we can work out a deal. I have some AsanteFast 10/100 NuBus cards still in boxes. They're refurbs. trag@io.com
  11. trag

    Asante Micro EN/SC connection mod

    Going back to your tubing idea... The pins which fit into the Molex Mini-Fit Jr. "receptacle" housings are actually tube-like. I don't know if they'll fit snugly over the pins on your adapter, or not, but they're not terribly expensive--couple bucks per 100 (or about a pound). The shipping will cost you more. In the US, one would shop at Mouser or Digi-Key, but I'm not sure who are the good electronic supply mail order houses in the UK. Still, Digi-Key's web site is well organized. You may wish to look up the Molex Mini-Fit Jr. line of housings. Then look on that catalog page to identify the corresponding pins for the receptacles. That'll give you part numbers. You can also probably find a mechanical drawing of the pins there which will give you dimensions. Then you can try crimping wires onto the pins, and soldering them after crimping, if you wish. Connect the other ends of the wires to a DB-25 connector perhaps. Then when it is all done, simply slide the Molex pins over the appropriate adapter pins, and that way you needn't do any soldering on your adapter. The odd thing about the Mini-Fit Jr. housings, is that the ones that look like plugs are called receptacles and vice versa. The reason for this is that the pins which install in the plugs are male and the pins which install in the receptacles are female. So even though the large plastic plug housing looks female, the pins inside are male and vice versa. Hence the odd naming convention. Also, if the Mini-Fit Jr. pins are not a good fit, I'd look for some other crimp on pins which do have the proper dimensions. One of these two part numbers, WM2312CT-ND WM2513-ND, is tubular, crimp-on pin with a smaller size than the Mini-Fit Jr. pins. The other is a springing action pin, so you'd need to look at specs to pick the right one. Or order both. Again, they're cheap. And don't forget to order a DB25 housing and pins while you're at it.
  12. Just use two soldering pencils to remove surface mount caps. I don't know why this idea doesn't penetrate better. It's easy. It's cheap. And it pretty much completely eliminates any danger of lifting traces, as long as one exercises a bit of patience when heating the component. 15 watt grounded pencils are under $10 each at Radio Shack. A pair of those will lift any SM capacitor or resister in a few seconds without all the angst about lifting traces and whether to alternate sides or use desoldering braid or whether to spend a small fortune on special tweezer tips. I think one of the earlier posters touched on it briefly, but it really deserves more empasis, so I'm emphasizing it. 2 soldering pencils == trouble free SM (passive) component removal.
  13. Can't be done, unless the ROM one means is a special, never-released ROM especially made to allow the ANS to boot the Mac OS. The Open Firmware in these machines does not dynamically allocate interrupt signals. The interrupt assignments are fixed in the firmware. The ANS has interrupts assigned differently than one would find in the PM9500. So, if one attempted to boot an ANS with a PM9500 ROM, it would work up to the point where the machine attempted to service one of the interrupts which is connected differently on the ANS from the PM9500. Now, a 9500 ROM with the interrupt assignments rewritten should work--and if one could add drivers for the on-board F&W SCSI chips and built-in video that would be even cooler. BTW, if anyone ever runs across that special ROM, or someone who has one of those special ROMs, please let me know. I have the means to copy it into shiny new ROM modules, which will plug into the stock ROM slot.
  14. trag

    pci logic boards query

    The 9500/9600 has six PCI slots and 512K of level 2 cache soldered to the board. They lack the level 2 cache slot found on the 7x00 and 8x00 machines and they lack the built-in video abilities. Other than that, they are identical. The I/O hardware is identical. All of the I/O goes through the Grand Central chip which appears as a PCI device to the computer. So there are actually four PCI "slots" on the 7500/7600/8500/8600/7300 machines. The PCI bus is controlled by the Bandit chip which bridges data from the CPU/memory bus to the PCI bus. The non-9500/9600 machines have one Bandit chip bridging for Grand Central and the three PCI slots. The 9500/9600 have two Bandit chips. The first one does exactly the same job as the single Bandit chip on the 7/85/600 machines. The second Bandit chip bridges for the additional 3 PCI slots. So each Bandit chip occupies a spot on the CPU/Memory bus. In the non-9500/9600 machines, there is one Bandit chip, plus the video controllers, Control and CHAOS. The Control/CHAOS combo occupies the CPU/Memory bus space which the second Bandit occupies on the 9500/9600, sort of. Apple originally designed this family of machines to be capable of having four Bandit-style bridges on the CPU/memory bus. So, in theory, they could have built a machine with 12 PCI slots, or one with 9 PCI slot plus built-in video. Additionally, Bandit is capable of controlling more than three or four PCI devices. The Apple Network Server uses Bandit PCI Bridge chips. It has six PCI slots, one Grand Central, on-board PCI video, and two F&W SCSI busses on the PCI bus, for a total of ten PCI devices on two PCI bridges. But wait, there's more. In the Apple Network Server, the video, two SCSI busses, Grand Central and first two PCI slots are all on one Bandit chip. So that's actually six PCI devices on one PCI bus. So with four Bandits and six devices per Bandit, one could theoretically have 24 PCI devices. Unfortunately, problems with bus noise limit one to about 5 PCI slots per bus. One can have ten soldered down devices, because soldered down devices are less noisy and probably have less trace length than cards. So figure each slots counts twice and each soldered down device counts once, and you're limited to a count of eight to ten per Bandit chip.
  15. trag

    pci logic boards query

    The 7600 and 8600 use a different power supply from the 7500/8500, IIRC. The 8500 and 8600 include a couple of extra chips for the video capture or maybe that was video export. The 7500 and 7600 do either import or export, I can't remember which. The 8500 and 8600 do both import and export. The 7500 and 7600 motherboard have the positions on the circuit board for the extra chips which the 8500 and 8600 actually have on board, so they're the same raw boards, simply populated differently. The 7300 and the 8600 have a slightly updated ROM, $77D.34F2 instead of $77D.28F2. The 7600 also has the 28f2 ROM. On the boards, the four 28F2 ROM chips are labeled 341S0169 through 341S0172. The 34F2 ROMs are labeled 341S0280 through 341S0283. The 8600 enhanced and 9600 enhanced (Kansas/Mach V machines) have yet another ROM, the $77D.34F5, which is labeled 341S0380 through 341S0383. The switch from 8500 and 9500 to 8600 and 9600 moved virtually the same motherboards (updated power connector and ROM) into a nicer case. The update to 8600 and 9600 Enhanced kept the nice case and added the later ROM and ability to use the Mach V CPU cards. Also, the 9600 Enhanced lacks the on-board L2 cache found on the 9500 and 9600 boards, but the positions for the chips are still there, but unpopulated. The 7300 also did away with the video import/export ability altogether. Jeff Walther
  16. trag

    1MB cache

    I have a 1MB cache somewhere. I don't know if I can lay my hands on it. It was from NewerTechnology. I bought it as a clearance item from some Mac equipment seller, years ago, turned out it was defective, and NewerTech replaced it. The original, defective one had a bunch of chips on board. The replacement clearly used higher capacity chips and fewer of them. So the original defective one would have been similar to what you're trying to do probably--build up smaller chips into a larger agglomerate. One thing I do have which might be helpful for you is the pinout for the cache slot--sort of. As you may know, the cache slot and the ROM slot in the x100 machines are interchangeable, i.e. the ROM and Cache DIMMs may be installed in either slot without preference (except it's sometimes good to put the cache closer to the CPU). What you probably do not know is that the pinout of the ROM slot is the same as on the x500 series and on the Beige G3 series, with some minor differences. And I do have most of the pinout for the Beige G3 ROM slot. If you want it, email me at trag@io.com and I'll throw it up on the space I use for public files. One difference is that the Beige uses pins, which are unused on the x500/x100, for the 3.3V supply, because its parts run on 3.3V whereas the older machines use chips which run on 5V. It would still be a good idea to confirm the pinout but this will get you way more started than probing at random. I only identified the pinout needed for a ROM module. There may be other pins implemented in a cache module. Wouldn't there be something like a cache hit/cache miss signal back to the host? BTW, OWC has bundles of those 256K caches for really low prices.
  17. trag


    I'm going to feel pretty silly if it turns out that Prootwaddles ran around calling out, "Proot, proot, proot," instead of woot. Get old, memory turns to mush.
  18. trag

    Switch between 128K & 512K RAM

    Many, if not all, ROM chips have a Chip Enable pin. This also applies to EPROM, EEPROM and Flash. When Chip Enable is low (at or near ground) the chip is activated. When Chip Enable is high (at or near Vdd, 5V in this case) the chip is disabled and all the outputs go to high impedance--they become mostly invisible to the rest of the machine. So, to do a one switch ROM changer, you would install both sets of ROM in parallel and connect a switch to the CEs. There's a name for the type of switch, but I forget what it is. It has a common and two poles. In one position it connects pole1 to common. In the other position it connects pole2 to common. Use a few hundred ohms of resistance to 5V as the common. Tie each of the CE pins to Ground through something like a 4Kohm resistor or so. That way, they're grounded unless the switch connects them to 5V. The one connected to 5V is disabled and the other one is activated. Voila, one switch changing of the ROMs. Still, you'll need a way to mount them, but you could just piggy-back them on top of each other, as long as the CE pins are not connected together.
  19. trag


    I don't know if this is the origin... But back in the very old days (like the late 70s or 80s) there was a series of role-playing games collectively known as "The Fantasy Trip" from a company called Meta-gaming. Meta-gaming producted Car Wars (before Steve Jackson Games) and that big tank game "Bolo"(?). This was back when Steve Jackson and Howard Thompson were partners or at least worked together. Their games were regularly advertised in the sci-fi periodical "Analog". Anyway, one of the sentient/sub-sentient races in The Fantasy Trip (includes "Wizard", "Advanced Wizard", "Melee", "Advanced Melee" and "In the Labyrinth") was the Prootwaddle. They were described as something that looked about like a Tele-tubby (before tele-tubbies) without the head gear and with brown or natural colored fur. They had an IQ of 6 where 8 was the low-end of human-normal and would follow others around happily, joyously singing out, "Woot, woot, woot, woot, woot, woot." Somewhat like a deeper pitched guinea pig. Meta-gaming broke up and Steve Jackson started Steve Jackson Games. "The Fantasy Trip" had copyright issues, so GURPS was created, but SJ apparently had the copyrights to Car Wars. The very active Steve Jackson Games BBS eventually grew into Illuminati Online (io.com), a major Texan ISP. And the SJ BBS was raided by the FBI in a notorious case which ultimately involved the EFF in one of its first court cases, because the FBI thought a role-playing book in the cyberpunk milieu was a cookbook for computer hacking. The point of the last paragraph being that there was enough notoriety and connectivity from that source, for the few folks who know about prootwaddles to have spread the "Woot, woot, woot" meme into the general on-line community. So, it may not be the source, but that's my 50 cents on the topic and my hypothesis of woot's source.
  20. trag

    Dead HD20

    The HD20 has an IWM interface on the outside. Then it has a circuit board to translate from IWM (I.e. Mac floppy) interface to whatever interface that 36 pin hard drive connector implements. One possibility is that the 36 pin connector implements SCSI and that the circuit board in the HD20 translates from IWM to SCSI. There are enough conductors in 36 wires to implement SCSI. Even if we knew that the hard drive mechanism in teh HD20 was a SCSI drive with a custom connector, we'd still have problems, because we have no idea what the pinout on the 36 pin connector is. Now the Mac Portable uses a SCSI drive with a non-standard connector. If it also happens to have 36 pins, there is some possibility that Apple used the same non-standard connector for both SCSI devices. In which case guessing at the pinout becomes much easier--maybe. But the HD20 may be something completely different. This seems pretty unlikely though. Why would Apple invent a whole different interface and then build an adapter card to it? If you buy a hard drive with a custom interface, specify that the interface be IWM already. Right? So it is likely that the interface on teh HD20 drive is actually something common, but with a non-standard connector. The choices are ST506 style, IDE or SCSI or something completely different. Given Apple's fondness for SCSI and the fact that they stuck non-standard connectors on another drive (the Mac Portable's drive) my first guess would be a non-standard connector implementing SCSI.
  21. trag

    Most expensive Nubus card these days?

    Is it certain that this is even a Mac Card? NuBus was used in some obscure Unix system (Nu Machine) which was sold by TI after they acquired NuBus from MIT. It looks like the form factor for the cards is rather different from that of a Macintosh, but maybe it would fit in a Nu Machine... Heh. Maybe competing espianage agencies are bidding on the thing.
  22. trag

    Dead HD20

    Okay, time for someone to check the drive/connector on the Mac Portable and compare it to the disk drive mechanism in the HD20. The Portable used a SCSI drive with a special cable harness attached. If the number of pins matches, it is time for a more careful comparison. It may be that Apple reused this modified SCSI connector in both the HD20 and the Portable, although, IIRC, the Portable had a 40MB drive. The Portable pinout is avaiable somewhere, because there was a Portable to standard 50 pin converter available at some point. If the HD20 uses the same scheme as the Portable and we know the pinout of the Portable, then we would know the pinout of the HD20 and the only remaining thing to do would be to build a conversion cable so that we could test other SCSI drives in the HD20 case. I'd check it myself, but I don't have a Portable.
  23. One final comment on all the updated interface card ideas... The problem with NuBus cards is that the maximum theoretical performance of a NuBus card is 10MHz X 4 bytes = 40 MB/s. And the reality is quite a bit slower with bus overhead. For example, on the NuBus, the data and address pins are multiplexed, which means that addresses and data are transmitted on teh same wires, sequentially. A PDS bus has separate address and data busses as well as running faster than 10 MHz. Apple's guidelines for cards for PDS slots are very similar to NuBus cards, so there's actually not that much difference in developing one or the other. With FPGAs it's not that difficult to build a card which will work regardless of which PDS slot it's plugged into. Although making it autodetect that might be a bit of a trick. It'd be nicer if the user set a jumper. Of course, there's only one PDS slot in each machine. So a multi-function card such as IDE/USB mentioned above becomes attractive. At this point one starts thinking about all the things that would benefit from faster performance and is quickly contemplating a card wtih IDE, USB, video, and 10/100 ethernet all rolled into one. Then, if one assumes that a machine wtih such a card installed would also be one with a fast CPU upgrade, one starts thinking, "hey, the upgrade is running at 40 or 50 MHz, why am I limiting my peripheral upgrades with a 16 MHz bus speed? If I put them all on the same card, they could all run at 40 or 50 MHz bus speeds. And then one start comptemplating a total 68K computer upgrade that just uses the host motherboard as an I/O interface....
  24. I'm not sure if I'm interpreting your comment correctly, but there is no NuBus UW SCSI card. The fastest SCSI card made (or shipped anyway) was Fast & Wide with max transfer rates of 20 MB/s theoretical. UW is 40 MB/s theoretical maximum and was the next step up and the last one before LVD hit the scenes.
  25. More importantly, it makes it too expensive. The very first thing we need to look at in any concept is the cost per unit, I think. 68K CPUs cost about $100 each depending on the model. If you can live without the MMU and at low speeds, they get cheaper. 68060 and 68040 are also too expensive. Coldfire chips are cheap enough (~$30) but I see your post about them lacking an FPU. So, we either live without an FPU in accelerated systems, or.... If we're going to try to implement an FPU in an FPGA, then I'd say we're better off just going all the way back to the emulate the 68030 in an FPGA. Besides, the CF doesn't have a built-in interface to an FPU the way the 68030 does, does it? That would make providing an external FPU much more daunting. FPGAs with about twice as much logic as found in an actual 68030 cost under $20 and run at 200 MHz. The 68030 contains about 273,000 transistors. The 68040 contains just under 1,200,000 transistors. If we assume that there are about 4 transistors per gate (this is very conservative from the point of view of this estimate) then the 68030 contains about 70,000 gates and the 68040 contains about 300,000 gates. The Xilinx XC3S500E contains about 500,000 gates and costs $20.75 when purchased individually from Digi-Key. I'm not sure how FPGA gates translates to CPU transistors or even CPU gates though. There are at least 4 transistors in each real world gate, except inverters which only have two. If we assume an average of four (which should be low) we get the numbers above for total gates in the target CPUs. I would assume that one needs many more gates in an FPGA to get the same functionality found in a CPU, because we're not custom designing the logic. But how much more? The XC3S500E has 7 times as many gates as a 68030. Is that enough? Is it too much? Does a 200MHz FPGA run non-optimized logic at a speed faster than 40MHz 68030 with custom logic.