What to buy LC475 or Performa 630

[Trianon]

Hi all,

I'm just starting my Macintosh collection, as a child I could only afford an Amiga 500 and the Atari STE, but always wanted the Mac.
Now 36 years later I can afford them but they are very hard to find (in Europe).
PS I'm an old 68k electronic engineer so recapping or some other HW work is just fine, the plan is to do some programming, maybe design HW ...

I already have a LC, LC II and a Performa 5300, so now I would like the basic 68000 and the 68040 version.
I found a perfect working LC475 with only 512k video RAM and a Performa 630 without HDD (no idea about memory or working state).

1.Is there a big difference in speed between the 25MHz LC475 and the 33MHz Performa 630 ? Is it difficult to overclock the LC475 ?

2.What about the storage, the LC475 has a SCSI drive, I will upgrade it to a BlueSCSI or can I upgrade the Performa 630 with an CF card ?

3.Also important for me is a big screen resolution for ease on programming, I have a LCD screen available.
Is the a difference between the 2 machine, I found contradicting info on the web, hoping they can handle 1024x728 ?

I would be very helpful if any of you experience Mac user could help me.

Br,
Steve

 

[aserker]

Some points to consider:
- the LC 475 is small factor and lightweight, while the 630 is quite heavy and bulky
- I understand the motherboard of the LC 475 is praised for its design and relatively good extensibility (for an apple product).
- the LC 475 is easy to open and all the components are directly accessible even while powered on. The 630 has a fancy drawer system to take out the motherboard but honestly it’s not very practical for hacking
- the hacker and tinkerer community is quite active on the LC 475, with loads of upgrades available
- it’s easy to replace the PSU in the LC 475 with a modern MeanWell PSU
- it’s easy to overclock the LC 475 at least to 33 MHz with a software tool only. Some hardware upgrades may be needed to reach 40 MHz

It’s nice to welcome a 68k engineer on this forum !

 

[Byrd]

Hi Steve,

Both are quite different machines while very similar in specs, on release the LC475 was the answer to a "cheap Quadra" while the LC630 was released more at the end of the 68K cycle as a "cheap multimedia Mac" with such features (optical drive, TV/AV cards, IR remote support), but somewhat more limited in upgradability. The casing is also quite different with the 475 being easy to get into while the 630 has always been a bit of a pain.

In terms of repairs, both need just much work as each other with leaky caps and failing PSUs, likely more work needed on the 630 due to fragile plastics and harder to get to some components.

1. 475 can be overclocked using software, or 33Mhz moving resistors not hard; the LC630 does 40Mhz without issues. Keep in mind neither will likely have full fat '040 CPUs, likely the 68LC040 variants. I've always felt the 475 feels snappier compared to the 630 due to a lesser video chip. Also check out the 630 DOS compatible if having x86 Windows and DOS running sounds cool.

2. Blue/Zulu SCSI will be great in the 475, inexpensive CF--3.5" IDE can have some compatibility issues but should be fine in the 630, but again, getting to the card isn't fun ...

3. In terms of your uses, due to limited max VRAM in both, you can't to 1024 x 768 on the 630 (nor upgrade it), with 1MB on the LC475 you can do 1024 x 768 @ lowly 8bit, you could continue to save for a Quadra 650/700 here and find any Nubus video card you like for higher resolutions and colour depths.

 

[tjjq44]

I agree, the LC 475 is really worth it ! The 650 is similar in terms of upgrades and performance and accepts NuBus cards but it is significantly bulkier.

For overclocking look here :
https://ameblo.jp/keroxiee1016/entry-12680862668.html
https://ameblo.jp/keroxiee1016/entry-12614308377.html

Personally I use system 7.1 on mine (40MHz modded) and it feels pretty snappy . I had to do the 33Mhz resistor mod (easy), add a 20MHz oscillator (quite easy) and use two 512k 70ns Vram (not needed @33MHz). I also replaced the 68LC040 by a real 68040 with heatsink (very easy).

Here is my modified system enabler, The 33 MHz "resistor modded" LC 475 is recognized as LC 475+

 

[Phipli]

Others have already covered most of this but...

I found a perfect working LC475 with only 512k video RAM

It will happily work as a 256 colour 640*480 machine like that. To upgrade to 1MB, you're better off making your own SIMMs because the originals are expensive.

Performa 630 without HDD

They take IDE disks and standard cheap CF card adapters, that is less of an issue than with other 68k macs

1.Is there a big difference in speed between the 25MHz LC475 and the 33MHz Performa 630 ? Is it difficult to overclock the LC475 ?

Both can be overclocked. The LC 475 is easier to get to 50MHz, but 40MHz is doable on both, although you'll probably need to swap the CPU and move one resistor on the LC 475, Vs move a couple of resistors on the 630.

The 475 can be overclocked in software, but if you go to higher speeds you might need to... Move the SCSI clock source resistor to the other setting, replace the CPU with a higher grade, and if you go past 40MHz, replace the PLL (88920) with a faster one (they're cheap).

The 630 has LC-PDS, COMM Slot, UHF module, and an AV slot. The 630 upgrades are much cheaper than Nubus cards, but more limited. Ethernet cards are about €40 annoyingly.

What about the storage, the LC475 has a SCSI drive, I will upgrade it to a BlueSCSI or can I upgrade the Performa 630 with an CF card ?

As above. 630 is much cheaper to upgrade storage. I don't think I'd worry about access - just grab an ethernet card, regardless of which machine you get.

3. In terms of your uses, due to limited max VRAM in both, you can't to 1024 x 768 on the 630 (nor upgrade it), with 1MB on the LC475 you can do 1024 x 768 @ lowly 8bit, you could continue to save for a Quadra 650/700 here and find any Nubus video card you like for higher resolutions and colour depths.

I think the resolution limit on the 630 isn't a VRAM limit, but probably semi-artificial / cost cutting. Remember this was the bottom end Mac. Edit - just remembered why the limit exists - the AV capability means that some VRAM is needed for a video buffer for the AV features. Or something like that.

The 630 has hardware 4x (2x2) video scaling, which can be useful if you want to write games or demos.

Is the a difference between the 2 machine, I found contradicting info on the web, hoping they can handle 1024x728 ?

Both do 832x624 (yes that is right - Mac Resolution), but with the VRAM upgrade the 475 does 1024*768. I suspect the hardware is technically able to do 1152*870 at 1, 2 with 512k or 4bit with 1MB, but that might need some register poking.

In all, given you're not talking about expandability or CD drives (the main advantages of the 630) I'd say it comes down to where you want 1024*768 (475), or to avoid paying a fortune for a hard disk (630).

It might be worth considering that the 475 is better documented.

Have you considered both?

 

[Byrd]

I think the resolution limit on the 630 isn't a VRAM limit, but probably semi-artificial / cost cutting. Remember this was the bottom end Mac.

It was a great Mac on release with all those features and price. The add-on TV tuners, AV cards can also be picked up fairly cheap if not present and make for a fun vintage Mac, DOS cards were also cheap but now highly sought after

 

[Phipli]

It was a great Mac on release with all those features and price. The add-on TV tuners, AV cards can also be picked up fairly cheap if not present and make for a fun vintage Mac, DOS cards were also cheap but now highly sought after

I know it was, but I'd perhaps point out that it was released after the PPC. It was a SLOW Mac on release, but is retrospectively one of the best 68k macs made, certainly one of the fastest and most interesting to expand.

And yes, I even have the hardware MPEG card and FM radio module

 

[Trianon]

Thank you all for the response, my conclusions :

- 630 has poor plastics (seen it on the 5300 also) and difficult to get in to, and I really want to get inside while keeping the case pristine !
- 630 can be expended with video and DOS cards, don't have any need for it yet.
- 630 has CD rom, but as I don't have any physical CD and only images, no need for it.

- LC475 has the better graphics, but I need to get 1MB VRAM first, making a PCB myself should be no issue.
- LC475 has by default slower 25MHz clock, but seems easy to overclock. I do have a Motorola VME card with a 68040RC33 + heatsink,
so I would really like to use this one and overclock it to 40MHz.

Br,
Steve

 

[Phipli]

- 630 has poor plastics (seen it on the 5300 also) and difficult to get in to, and I really want to get inside while keeping the case pristine !

It isn't as bad as people are making out - it is more difficult to get to the PSU, there is a trick to getting to the disks but the logic board PCB is on rails and slides out after removing a couple of screws.

You could probably mount a compact flash in front of the floppy drive slot if you didn't need the floppy drive.

The PSU you only need to access once to recap.

The board, well... I leave the screws out most of the time, so it is 10 seconds to get to things like RAM and expansion slots and the CPU.

Plastics wise, these aren't the worst. I've not had one break more, just them arrive broken from shipping or very obviously having been kicked while on the floor (with rubber marks on them).

But, other than that, it sounds like the 475 suits you better.

 

[Trianon]

The 630 has one advantage in it supports the COM slot, so I could add cheap(er) 10/100MB card to it.
I found here : https://shop.onegeekarmy.eu/index.php/product/comm-slot-ii-10-100-ethernet-card.
But then it's not in the supported list ...

Don't know if there are any project on home build Ethernet card for the PDS slot ?

Br,
Steve

 

[Phipli]

The 630 has one advantage in it supports the COM slot, so I could add cheap(er) 10/100MB card to it.
I found here : https://shop.onegeekarmy.eu/index.php/product/comm-slot-ii-10-100-ethernet-card.
But then it's not in the supported list ...

Don't know if there are any project on home build Ethernet card for the PDS slot ?

Br,
Steve

That is "COMM Slot 2" a later revision. That specific card doesn't work in a 630.

You need a COMM Slot (i.e. version 1), or an LC PDS card. The LC PDS ones are more common and often cheaper.

 

[croissantking]

It will happily work as a 256 colour 640*480 machine like that. To upgrade to 1MB, you're better off making your own SIMMs because the originals are expensive.

Has anyone designed a pcb for this?

 

[tjjq44]

An ethernet card in "LC PDS" format for the 475 might be difficult to find (and quite a bit pricey)... Another solution is to replace the internal HD by a BlueSCSI with integrated Wifi.

The LC 475 will do 1024x768 with only 512k of VRAM but only at 4bit (16) colours.