While I prefer the 68k stuff, I do kind of want an Apple II...however, I know very little about Apple IIs. Well, aside from the obvious stuff (6502 processor, uses 5 1/4" floppies for software, old-school command-line, etc). But my question is...if I just want a convenient, relatively easy to use Apple II, what's the best choice? I was thinking of the Platinum IIe, but the Apple IIc is also pretty neat and there's the IIGS to consider as well. I probably won't be buying one for a while, but I'd like to know what to look for when I do.
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What is the best Apple II to buy?
- Thread starter EvieSigma
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If you have a beige Mac, the IIc+ is good, because it has everything a "II series" needs in a very compact case, including a built-in 3.5" drive, so you can transfer files from a beige Mac easily. And external 5.25" drives are easy to find to running most Apple II software.
That or a IIgs, which is the ultimate evolution of the II line.
That or a IIgs, which is the ultimate evolution of the II line.
I have a IIc and the monochrome monitor designed for it, it doesn't take much space and it's a pretty neat and cute machine..
But the problem is, IIc doesn't have an analog cassette input.. meaning you can't do something like this.
Which means I am stuck with the software it came with it (some demos and tutorials).. if I had one with the analog input, I could just load software from my laptop.
But the problem is, IIc doesn't have an analog cassette input.. meaning you can't do something like this.
Which means I am stuck with the software it came with it (some demos and tutorials).. if I had one with the analog input, I could just load software from my laptop.
Personally I'd get a II Plus or Europlus (depending on where you live etc...). Then I would send to lid to woz and get his nice signature on it.
With a USB->Serial adapter and an admittedly oddball but not too hard to make or buy serial cable you can use ADTpro to transfer software to a IIc, which is under most circumstances a better/more reliable option than cassette audio.
My favorite Apple computer is my bizarre mongrel II plus. (It's a real Apple II plus motherboard in the case of a "SYSCOM-II" Apple clone.)
The thing the original II or II Plus have over the later models is if you're thinking really long-term they're more repairable than the newer models. (Some of the parts are getting a little thin on the ground, but they're entirely made out of generic off-the-shelf logic, no Apple-specific ASICs.)
That said, if you just want one to experience "Apple II"-ness with the IIe or IIc are probably better choices than the older models; software support for the earlier systems started to dry up around 1985 or so as the IIe vastly outsold them and went on to become the "standard" Apple II configuration. The IIgs is sort of its own thing; if you want to run IIgs software, have a 3.5" drive for 8-bit software under ProDos, or use something like the Floppy Emu as a Smartport hard drive the IIgs is mostly backwards compatible with the IIe and will do the job. Just personally... I dunno, I kind of feel like it's missing the retro "spark" of a real Apple II.
(My other Apple II *is* a gs. And it's a perfectly okay machine, but I'm not really interested in GS-OS software and running 8 bit software on it feels sort of like a cross between using a real Apple II and running it in an emulator.)
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Get a IIGS. They can do everything the others did PLUS have a mouse, more powerful, etc.
It depends on what you want to do. The IIgs is a faster IIe, but many of the 8-bit people prefer the IIe because it's more true to the original platform, plus IIGS can be a little on the expensive side. And if you're using the weird graphical 16-bit computer component of it, you usually need to buy potentially costly memory and CPU upgrades.
It kind of depends on what you want.
I'd consider trying to emulate each before buying one. It would be a bummer to buy an old computer (potentially very costly) and then figure out that you have no idea what to do with it and nothing you want is exclusive to that type of computer.
The (original) Mac came with everything you needed to put it on your desk and start doing productive writing and graphics work.
The (original) Apple II came with everything you needed to connect the thing to a TV you had, with an adapter, and type BASIC programs.
It's not just that Apple IIs use command interfaces (they do, in certain contexts) but they and their OS isn't designed from the get-go for a lot of local storage.
If you know literally nothing about Apple IIs and what you want is a slightly different, more primitive Mac experience, get a IIgs. If you want to learn an entirely new platform from almost ten years before the Mac and well before a lot of the computing notions that were in use on the Mac existed or were common, then the Apple II could be your platform, but C64 and some others might also be worth looking into.
It kind of depends on what you want.
I'd consider trying to emulate each before buying one. It would be a bummer to buy an old computer (potentially very costly) and then figure out that you have no idea what to do with it and nothing you want is exclusive to that type of computer.
The (original) Mac came with everything you needed to put it on your desk and start doing productive writing and graphics work.
The (original) Apple II came with everything you needed to connect the thing to a TV you had, with an adapter, and type BASIC programs.
It's not just that Apple IIs use command interfaces (they do, in certain contexts) but they and their OS isn't designed from the get-go for a lot of local storage.
If you know literally nothing about Apple IIs and what you want is a slightly different, more primitive Mac experience, get a IIgs. If you want to learn an entirely new platform from almost ten years before the Mac and well before a lot of the computing notions that were in use on the Mac existed or were common, then the Apple II could be your platform, but C64 and some others might also be worth looking into.
I definitely recommend trying out an emulator.
You can see the inspiration for Mac OS X in basically any version of Mac System Software. The Apple IIs are more or less a completely different ballgame, unless you get and upgrade a IIgs and its RGB monitor and a floppyemu or other storage device and install GS/OS system 6.0.1 or 6.0.3.
At that point, why not just get a Mac? A Mac LC is faster than an upgraded IIgs and system 7.0-7.1 has most of what GS/OS 6.0.1 has.
You can see the inspiration for Mac OS X in basically any version of Mac System Software. The Apple IIs are more or less a completely different ballgame, unless you get and upgrade a IIgs and its RGB monitor and a floppyemu or other storage device and install GS/OS system 6.0.1 or 6.0.3.
At that point, why not just get a Mac? A Mac LC is faster than an upgraded IIgs and system 7.0-7.1 has most of what GS/OS 6.0.1 has.
This is a good point about the IIgs that bears repeating: if you actually want to use it as a "IIgs" with its native operating system you really should *at the very least* look for a system that has some sort of hard disk solution. (Preferably Apple's SCSI card, or one of the third-party IDE/CF Flash cards.) You'll also want, again, at the very least a ROM1 system with a fully maxxed-out Apple stock memory card (This configuration is often described as having "1.125MB" of RAM) and if you really want to get "serious" about things you'll end up buying a third-party 8MB RAM card. In short, owning a IIgs was a lot like owning a low-end Amiga like an A500; you can play self-booting games with a stock out-of-the-box floppy-only system but to really use it as a serious computer you have to basically double the cost of it with additional peripherals.
However, I will note this in the IIgs' favor over a IIe: If you don't care about IIgs software but just want the equivalent of a fully maxxed-out IIe system a floppy-only IIgs system might cost you about the same anyway. If you're comparing basic systems with just a system unit and a couple of floppies the prices for the two are in about the same ballpark, and the nice thing about the IIgs is it has the equivalent of a Super Serial Card (which you'll *really want* with a IIe) and a CPU accelerator (which drives up the price of a IIe immensely) built-in. It's when you add a hard disk controller and other upgrades really needed to run GS/OS that the price of a GS goes through the roof(*). Where I think the IIgs fails in the comparison is simply aesthetics: a IIe (or older) has a really iconic, retro look that instantly tells even casual observers that what they're seeing is something oldschool and special. The IIgs... not so much.
(* Cory mentioned the FloppyEMU, and for casual use that can serve to give you a taste of running GS/OS on a more basic IIgs system. But that's still $100, which on one hand I consider perfectly reasonable for a well-built hobby device, but on the other might not be something you'll want to spend on something you're not even sure you're going to care about.)
Personally, as I may have mentioned elsewhere, I don't care much for GS/OS applications. The OS is technically somewhat interesting and in some ways is actually more advanced than the MacOS of the same era but the hardware limitations of the system, particularly the painful 200 line vertical screen resolution and sluggish stock CPU speed, frankly sort of trigger some not-so-fond memories of running GUI software on IBM PC/XT-class systems with CGA graphics. 640x200 graphics are a thing that I just can't be nostalgic for.
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Well I see a lot more macs out there, so the Apple IIGS may be a better investment. Its hard to find a real good working system in GOOD CONDITION! Mine for instance has all the manuals, monitor, Imagewriter, etc etc etc, and its better than one of the early macs. Keep in mind this is an opinion. Oh, and its color (If it makes a difference). You also dont have to be forced to use a CRT.
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GS/OS pretty much needs 4MB+ RAM, SCSI card, and preferably an Accelerator to run nicely. The stock IIgs is a good old school Apple II gaming machine.
To me GS/OS is like Commodores GEOS, kind of cool to mess with but you need some upgrades to make it usable. I have a mouse, dual 1571 drives, 1084 Monitor (does high resolution), and a 512K RAM expansion for my Commodore 128 machine to mess with GEOS. The upgraded Transwap IIgs with max RAM and Apple SCSI card feels like an early Mac.
To me GS/OS is like Commodores GEOS, kind of cool to mess with but you need some upgrades to make it usable. I have a mouse, dual 1571 drives, 1084 Monitor (does high resolution), and a 512K RAM expansion for my Commodore 128 machine to mess with GEOS. The upgraded Transwap IIgs with max RAM and Apple SCSI card feels like an early Mac.
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