What FPS do you get in Quake on your machine?

[noglin]

I have setup a spreadsheet to benchmark Mac computers on Quake:

quake on mac

docs.google.com

I would be very interested in seeing what FPS you would get on your mac.

 

[Snial]

I have setup a spreadsheet to benchmark Mac computers on Quake:

quake on mac

docs.google.com

I would be very interested in seeing what FPS you would get on your mac.

Thanks!

 

[chriscarruthers]

Could you please post the specific instructions (again?) to ensure comparable results?

 

[noglin]

It seems someone deleted the instructions in the spreadsheet, I added them back. Posting here as well:


Quake
- Get the 2nd download: https://download.macintoshgarden.org/games/Quake109.sea_.bin
- Install 1.08, then update to 1.09.
- Settings: set to 320x200, run with/without 2x scaling whatever you prefer but note which one
- Start single player (you must start but no need to play, if you don't do this step you won't get the fps)
- Hit ""~"" on keyboard
- Type: ""timedemo demo2""
- it will now automatically play, it takes about 1 minute. About the time when it says ""got the golden key"", it will complete and the console window will come down and show the average fps.
- Report the FPS here, what mac model/cpu/mhz you have and if you have any upgrades.

 

[chriscarruthers]

Thanks!

 

[noglin]

Thank you for doing it, looking forward to see the results!

 

[Snial]

Hi @noglin ,

I've run it on my PB1400! Quite a lot of copying as you might expect: Macintosh Garden->Mac mini->Compact Flash->PB 1400.

UnBinHex it using Stuffit Expander; double-click for .sea; mount drive; install; reboot; run 1.09 updater. Now we can test it!

User	Machine	Quake Version	320x200	320x200(2x)	640x480
Snial	PowerBook 1400c/166	1.09	16.3	12.3	5.6

It looks like my PPC603e with 128kB of cache is proportionally faster. 7.9*166/75=17.4 fps. Alternatively, 16.3/7.9*75=>155MHz.

It was fun to get the PB1400c out (and clean the screen first, for this auspicious event ;-) ) !

 

[noglin]

Hi @noglin ,

I've run it on my PB1400! Quite a lot of copying as you might expect: Macintosh Garden->Mac mini->Compact Flash->PB 1400.

UnBinHex it using Stuffit Expander; double-click for .sea; mount drive; install; reboot; run 1.09 updater. Now we can test it!

User	Machine	Quake Version	320x200	320x200(2x)	640x480
Snial	PowerBook 1400c/166	1.09	16.3	12.3	5.6

It looks like my PPC603e with 128kB of cache is proportionally faster. 7.9*166/75=17.4 fps. Alternatively, 16.3/7.9*75=>155MHz.

It was fun to get the PB1400c out (and clean the screen first, for this auspicious event ;-) ) !

Cool! Thanks for doing that I thought it would do better than linear as it is the 603e so should be able to pair instructions better.

 

[killvore]

Powermac 6100/66 with Newer Technology G3 accelerator running at 247.50MHz, system bus speed 33MHz
264MB RAM (8+2x128 RAM)
Virtual memory off
BlueSCSI
Mac OS 8.6

320x200 39.8fps
320x200 double pixels 33.7fps
320x200 double pixels skip lines 37.5fps
640x400 15.8fps

Same, running 8.1
320x200 38.0fps

Same, running 8.1, 66MHz 601 (no L2 cache)
320x200 8.2fps

Same, running 8.1, 66MHz 601 (with 256kB L2 cache)
320x200 9.0fps

wish I'd kept my HPV card to see if it made a difference

 

[noglin]

Powermac 6100/66 with Newer Technology G3 accelerator running at 247.50MHz, system bus speed 33MHz
264MB RAM (8+2x128 RAM)
Virtual memory off
BlueSCSI
Mac OS 8.6

320x200 39.8fps
320x200 double pixels 33.7fps
320x200 double pixels skip lines 37.5fps

640x400 15.8fps

Very nice! Good to see that the civic video chip can push up to 39.8 fps, which is likely the bottleneck with the G3 in it. I hope we can get a 6100/66 to compare with and see how much that accelerator card is helping out on that same video chip.

 

[killvore]

Very nice! Good to see that the civic video chip can push up to 39.8 fps, which is likely the bottleneck with the G3 in it. I hope we can get a 6100/66 to compare with and see how much that accelerator card is helping out on that same video chip.

Disabled the card and updated the post! I also discovered that my PSU fan is busted so it's really cooking in there now

 

[Snial]

Cool! Thanks for doing that I thought it would do better than linear as it is the 603e so should be able to pair instructions better.

That's OK. I thought it would be worse than linear, because main board RAM is 70ns too. Bus speed is 33.3MHz (isn't it 37.5MHz on the 5200?). ROM interface is 32-bit (but that probably doesn't matter much to Quake). The architecture doesn't seem too dissimilar to the P5200:



"The PBX IC is an Apple custom IC that provides RAM and ROM memory control and also acts as the bridge between the processor bus and the 68030-type I/O bus. The PBX IC also provides bus cycle decoding for the floppy disk controller."

The I/O bus only runs at 25.175MHz and video is on the I/O bus.

This means that if the Performa 5200/75 CPU speed was scaled to the PB1400c/166's speed, then even a fairly low proportion of main RAM or video RAM accesses would slow the PB1400c to the speed of that P5200. My estimate is 2.4% accesses to both.

 

[Snial]

Disabled the card and updated the post! I also discovered that my PSU fan is busted so it's really cooking in there now

It'd be interesting to see what it's like without the G3 accelerator, but I guess it's fairly hairy to downgrade it.

OK, so you did do that! Well done! I think I must have seen the spreadsheet just before it updated. So, now the PM6100/66 is the second-slowest!

Sadistically I now wonder what the slowest one would be? How slow is a PM6100/66 without the 256kB cache at Quake? How slow is a PM6100/60 without L2? Or perhaps the prize for the slowest goes to a PB5300/100cs without L2 cache?

 

[noglin]

It'd be interesting to see what it's like without the G3 accelerator, but I guess it's fairly hairy to downgrade it.

Disabling the card, wouldn't that be exactly like running without it?

 

[killvore]

Yes I should have specified - I took the G3 accelerator card out so those last numbers are just off the 601@66 with and without 256kB L2 cache (which I also physically removed for testing)

Cache: 601 seems to be around +10% for this with 256kB L2
G3: about 4x as fast, phew! (G3 has its own built in L2)

 

[noglin]

Disabled the card and updated the post! I also discovered that my PSU fan is busted so it's really cooking in there now

Sorry about the PSU fan, but good you found out before it was too late!

Thanks for doing that, I added the numbers into the spreadsheet.
It is actually *very* interesting to me that you can get such high fps with the video-chip as-is. I had a quick look in the developer notes of the 6100/7100/8100, it seems this series actually has a 64-bit datapath from the CPU to the video chip!.

 

[Snial]

Disabling the card, wouldn't that be exactly like running without it?

I'm not familiar with the G3 accelerator, so I didn't know if it physically replaced the PPC 601 or could be disabled in software or even if it had some kind of dip-switch to disable it.

 

[Snial]

Same, running 8.1, 66MHz 601 (no L2 cache)
320x200 8.2fps

I guess that because the PM6100/60 bus speed and CPU scale in proportion (30MHz bus, 60MHz CPU), Quake will scale proportionally too. This implies Quake on such a machine would run at 7.5fps, a new record low! (P5200 at 75MHz/Mac OS 8.5 = 7.9fps).

 

[killvore]

I guess that because the PM6100/60 bus speed and CPU scale in proportion (30MHz bus, 60MHz CPU), Quake will scale proportionally too. This implies Quake on such a machine would run at 7.5fps, a new record low! (P5200 at 75MHz/Mac OS 8.5 = 7.9fps).

This is a very charitable use of the term "run"

Btw the PM6100 G3 accelerator is a pretty cool design, it's narrow enough that it slots vertically into the PDS and looks like it has a passthrough for eg an HPV card, so I am trying to get a hold of one to see if it makes a difference.

 

[Snial]

This is a very charitable use of the term "run"

I guess you never had a ZX Spectrum then ;-)

Btw the PM6100 G3 accelerator is a pretty cool design, it's narrow enough that it slots vertically into the PDS and looks like it has a passthrough for eg an HPV card, so I am trying to get a hold of one to see if it makes a difference.

Hmm, clever indeed! I always thought PDS was a good idea!