Vintage Telnet Server?

[Mac128]

In an ongoing effort to relive life like it was in 1984, I was thinking about setting up a telnet server for Classic Mac file sharing on an rarely used phone line. But I have absolutely no experience with this sort of thing.

Ideally I would take a 512K or Plus connected to a hard disk and a 1200K Apple modem. Others would dial up the server on their vintage Mac with something like Mac-Terminal and browse the directories and download anything they found interesting.

Also, is there a way to access such a dialup server via the internet, the way you can call telephones using Skype?

Any thoughts about how to go about doing this?

 

[luddite]

Probably your best bet would be to set up a BBS... I use Hermes which works with both direct dial and telnet connections (though xfers only work over modem).

 

[bigD]

Heh - I was just going to mention luddite. He beat me to it.

What is that thing running on, luddite?

 

[gavo]

Hmm,

I would say go for the plus, just because your more likely to find suitable BBS software and its easier to add a HD I know that the old WWIV BBS ran on a 512k (from personal experience) with as little as two 400k floppys - but clearly this is not the optimum configuration I dont think I ever came across (but am pretty sure there was) any other BBS software that would run on a 512k with 64k roms or less (i'd like to see it tho).

You mention you'd like to have both dialup and internet telnet clients - given this, I'd guess you would need a BBS package that supported simultaneous multi-line connections - I say this just because I cant think of an easy way to share a single serial port with a standard modem and an internet telnet device at the same time. If I remember correctly, the Hermes BBS software did support two concurrent connections via devices connected to both the serial and printer ports (and ran on a plus). In your case, one of these could be a standard modem, and the other could be a "ethernet modem" or PC acting as an ethernet modem.

Ethernet modems essentially look exactly like a hayes compatible modem to the serial attached device, but connect to ethernet networks via TCPIP and allow other TCPIP attached devices to connect to the serial device (via telnet etc) - the serial device on the end doesnt know the difference as the ethernet modem handles all the "ringing/hangup/carrier/handshaking" signals based on what connections it is accepting/processing via TCPIP. BTW, this is a good way to get a 512k (or eariler) "onto the net" with MacTerminal or similar - you can (theoretically - I've never tried it on an old mac, but have on other devices) "dialout" to a internet based telnet server via a command like ATDT - cool.

I've used a MOXA single port device in the past and found it quite good (http://www.moxa.com/product/NPort_DE-311.htm). Also quite good is this software (http://boycot.no-ip.com/InternetModem) which does a similar thing but runs on a windows based PC.

The only thing I would say about the ethernet modem route is that getting file transfers to work may be a challenge.

Anyway, I'd be interested to hear how you get on, and what other information you find out in the process.

Cheers,

 

[MacMan]

Heh - I was just going to mention luddite. He beat me to it.
What is that thing running on, luddite?

Same here! If I recall correctly it is running on an LC475.

 

[nahuelmarisi]

It would also be cool if you could provide BBS service as a telnet service on the internet. I suppose that if you get an SCSI to Ethernet card you could hook your mac plus online and offer your BBS service to any mac that's connected to the internet! Should work quicker and better than over the phoneline

 

[Mac128]

Thanks luddite, terrific little site.

I would say go for the plus, just because your more likely to find suitable BBS software and its easier to add a HD I know that the old WWIV BBS ran on a 512k (from personal experience) with as little as two 400k floppys - but clearly this is not the optimum configuration

It looks like Hermes requires 4MB, so it's definitely a Plus. I would like a go at that 512K software though. Part of the goal here is to use the oldest equipment I can.

Knowing nothing about it, I know the 128K can connect to any other computer with MacTerminal. I'm guessing the limitation there is that it doesn't have enough RAM to monitor and establish automatic connections with incoming calls and "serve" the other systems automatically on demand.

As for dialup, I expect the demand for dialup connections to be minimal, so one phone line! If anyone ever got a busy signal I would be surprised. The main reason I want dialup is for those old Macs that can't really get on the internet easily, in particular the 128K & 512K that can't really do it at all. While I have a great serial transfer method for my 128K, the idea of being able to just dial-up a server and obtain software without anything else is kind of cool. Also, I would be surprised if the Apple & Microsoft lawyers are trolling the last vestiges of BBS networks looking for copyright violations.

nahuelamrisi, certainly Ethernet is going to be faster, but the goal is dialup access. But, it would be nice to make the same server available to others in the vintage Mac community who don't have dialup systems or like me, typically use OS X to manage all their old software. That's why I wanted some way to access the dialup connection via the internet. I must say gavo, this Ethernet modem idea is very interesting. Why do you say I would have problems with file transfers, though?

 

[luddite]

Heh - I was just going to mention luddite. He beat me to it.
What is that thing running on, luddite?

Same here! If I recall correctly it is running on an LC475.

Right you are... though Hermes will run on anything down to a Plus with 4 Megs. I have 3 TCP/IP connexions and one modem which is more than enough for my purposes... I don't think it would be problematic to increase that several fold, but it's not necessary at all.

On thing about Hermes... it's buggy as batsh!t. The only way I could keep mine running smoothly was to limit it to one catch-all forum. Thankfully that's enough to cope with the traffic.

 

[equant]

I know that the old WWIV BBS ran on a 512k (from personal experience) with as little as two 400k floppys

I never got WWIV to run. I ordered it through a shareware disk service in the 80s. I was so excited to have my own BBS, but the software didn't work at all on my Mac plus. I have no idea why. Eventually I used Hermes.

I never found Hermes to be buggy, but I was using versions prior to any TCP/IP support, that's for sure. I wrote a few externals for it. I really liked it.

There was also a BBS system called "Mansion" that I remember seeing. It had some really interesting ideas on how a BBS should work, but I can't remember any details. I didn't end up using it because it lacked some pretty expected feature by BBS uses.

Nathan

 

[gavo]

I must say gavo, this Ethernet modem idea is very interesting. Why do you say I would have problems with file transfers, though?

I think in theory its all meant to work, however I have read of issues with things like X-Modem transfers through the ethernet modems - I personally never tried it when I could have and dont know the technical reasons around why it might be

I never got WWIV to run. I ordered it through a shareware disk service in the 80s. I was so excited to have my own BBS, but the software didn't work at all on my Mac plus. I have no idea why. Eventually I used Hermes.

Yeah, I actually got my copy directly off Terry Teague back in the late 80's - early 90s(?) - I vaguely remember going to his place in Auckland and picking up a copy - he seemed like a good guy I found this link http://www.geocities.com/terry_teague/atplay.html but unfortunately it doesnt have a link to download WWIV - I wonder if I still have my floppies of it around somewhere (I might have a look later).

I'm pretty sure I had a copy of the Mansion BBS as well - I think that might have required a Plus, but also seem to remember that it wasnt a completed product as so was not quite usable.

I also used to be involved in a local apple user group that run Second Sight BBS (the software formally known as Red Ryder) - Im pretty sure that required a Plus as well.

Gee, those were the good old days ;-)

 

[gavo]

Wow - transferring stuff from my classic to my PC via floppies is not fun...

Anyway, I dug out my original WWIV BBS Disks and they are still readable! I used DiskCopy to create images of them and then transfered them via floppy to my PC. If anyones interested they can download them from the following links for the next few days (dont worry, the URL is not dodgey - its a long story ;-) ).

http://www.nakeditguys.com/WWIV3-Dsk1.bin

http://www.nakeditguys.com/WWIV3-Dsk2.bin

The images themselves can be loaded directly into an emulator like Mini vMac, they are 800k disk images.

Having a bit of a browse, they contain the stuffit archives that are needed to install the WWIV version 3 BBS software. According to the readme, this will indeed run on a 512k mac (and implies 64k ROMs).

I'm not sure how you would get these DiskCopy images to work on a real Mac again - its been a long time, but I'm sure this transfer will have messed up their resource fork? I have a vague recollection that I should have stuff'd them on the mac after creating the disk images, and then stuffit on a real mac would have been able to handle it?

Anyway, might be some use to someone.

Cheers,