Some new SCSI2SD problems

[BadGoldEagle]

Hey there

Finally managed to get some time to test those v5.0a boards. I had a problem with the firmware, but after much trouble, I fixed the problem which was bloody windows trying to get a driver online... It crashed the util every time the board was connected. When Windows finally gave up on the drivers, it worked again so I was able to install version 4.6 of the firmware.

I didn't bother with the settings much. I only changed the SCSI ID to 1 in the "Device 1" tab, and SCSI Target is not enabled on the other devices.

By the way, my board has got those two terminators on it.

Now, I wanted to make a backup of the hard drive in my SE/30. So I need to have both the internal HD and the SCSI2SD connected to the machine, hence my decision to change SCSI ID to 1 for the SCSI2SD.

I plugged the SCSI2SD on my dead HD20SC. It gives 5V to the SCSI2SD and it is connected to the SCSI ribbon which in turn is connected to the back of the HD20SC.

When I tried to plug the "improved" HD20SC on my machine, it gave me a blinking question mark. That's bad.

I initially thought the internal HD was dead. It did the same when power was off on the HD20SC but the cable still plugged to my SE/30. That's really weird. 

Now, I know a lot of people come here with their problems which could be easily solved with the search tool of the website, but I couldn't find anything to help me with this problem. Do you think I did something wrong when setting the SCSI2SD up? 

Sorry for the inconvenience but maybe someone in the future will have the same problem as me...

 

[TimHD]

I had similar issues when I did what you did (though with an earlier version of the SCSI2SD) - ie putting the SCSI2SD into an ext 80SC drive to copy the SE/30 internal HDD data over (after doing a firmware update and resetting it's ID no)

From memory, a few things:

- check the SCSI2SD utility logging/messages when setting up the SD drive: I recall a few checksum errors the first few times I set up the SD card over micro USB on my Mac, even though it seemed to complete! (Ie your SD may still be set to ID0 and thus, finding 2 x ID0 drives and thus the flashing ?s!)

- Termination issues. Found I had to re-jig the order of my SCSI daisy chaining (ie SE/30 to Iomega to SC CD, to the 80SC w SD drive and THEN a terminator plug (seemed to me that sometimes the order matters - go figure!)

- I think I changed my SD to ID 4 or 2 or something, and that helped too for some reason (Iomega is ID5, SC CD was ID3 etc)

- check the Iomega drive switch (sets ID to 5 or 4(?)) if using one, to be sure the switch is properly engaged - check them all!

- lastly, swapped a few SCSI cables around in case it was the problem, though I think no difference.

- finally, I might have also tried swapping the SE/30 int. HDD into the ext drive 80SC as ID1 and put the SD card in the SE/30 as default ID0, with some success)

From your comments I lean towards SCSI ID or termination issues - note that I even managed to boot my SD drive once when it was in the ext drive which was turned off! Seems enough power came down the SCSI cable to power the SCSI2SD HDD! Hence even though it's 'off' it still gets enough power to report back a clashing ID 0 no!

Took a few tries but finally got there! (What's the problem with firmware 5.0?)

 

[BadGoldEagle]

Thanks Tim !

I don't have that many peripherals. One in total actually. The HD20SC is my ONLY SCSI device as of now. The 5.0a version is the latest version of the scsi2sd, and it is self terminated. I don't have to worry about all that termination nonsense. The latest firmware is 4.6.

Getting your internal HD out and SCSI2SD in is indeed a good idea. But my HD is a bit peculiar as I said in many posts now. It won't work if the SE/30 booted from a floppy before. It will lock itself even if it wasn't physically connected when I booted from the floppy. :blink:  Then I have to wait a few days to unlock it (only time solves this problem). I'm afraid the little bugger might die soon. So I don't want to disturb it much. 

Plus I'm either a complete n00b or completely blind but it doesn't seem my HD has any jumpers on it. It was maybe only meant to be used internally?

About my internal Hard Drive: It was upgraded. It's a 130MB Fujitsu. Maybe the ID is fixed to 1?? I haven't tried with the SCSI2SD on 0... Do I risk losing data on the HD because of ID conflicts?

I don't know if my SCSI cable is working though. I got it with the HD20SC which was already dead... So no way to test it.

So I'll double check tomorrow that SCSI ID. I'm 100% positive that it did not fail the setup. When you exit the util, and restart it, it will tell you that the board has the default settings (i.e. ID0) but once your load from the card, it reads all data on it and then it will say ID1.

Just to be sure I'll change the ID from 1 to 5 for example. 

EDIT: I've downloaded LIDO 7 earlier today and I think I can get the SCSI ID from any SCSI device connected to the computer. I'll have a look at the ID for the internal HD tomorrow. 

 

[TimHD]

Pretty sure that when I put the SCSI2SD in the ext 80SC drive I also had an external terminator plug in the second SCSI port to make it work. Did you have that? This might explain why you can't see it in the ext drive.

(I think the self-termination is only relevant if it's in the SE/30 on its own. Could be wrong, but thought someone said that once.)

One more thought (as you can see, had many attempts to get thus working) have you ensured the SCSI SD card is less than 2GB in size? At least the partitions are <2gb each say if you put a 8GB sdxc card in there....

Ps Google the Fujitsu drive for jumper setttings (if it indeed has any!) A quick look found this SCSI jumper setting PDF on the Fujitsu site: http://www.fujitsu.com/downloads/COMP/fcpa/mo/discontinued/mcj3230ss_jumper.pdf

But not sure what your model no is...

Will be great once you have your SCSI2CD setup. Love having it in my SE/30. (Bit like when I put an OWC 60GB in my iMac G3, really seems to go much faster!!)

 

[BadGoldEagle]

My SD card is 4gb. But the device size in the SCSI2SD util is set to 2GB. It should be okay then?

I didn't have time to check the serial on that Fujitsu drive... But Lido 7 confirmed that the drive was ID0. That's good.

I tested the SCSI2SD this time with ID5 and I have the same results.The util successfully changes the ID, that's for sure. I don't know if my settings are okay though on the util. I left everything on default except the SCSI ID.

I have:

-Ticked Enable SCSI Target

-SCSI ID 5

-Device type Removable

-SD card start sector to Auto (0)

-Sector size (bytes): 512

-Sector count 4194303

-Device size 2GB

-Vendor codesrc

-Product ID: SCSI2SD

-Revision 1.0

-and my board's serial number 

Another thing: Version 5.0 board have an active Terminator in the form of two resistor packs.

Does that mean that I need an external terminator as you suggested? I don't have any of those. Might explain it. I don't know...

 

[TimHD]

Another thing: Version 5.0 board have an active Terminator in the form of two resistor packs.

Does that mean that I need an external terminator as you suggested? I don't have any of those. Might explain it. I don't know...

Pretty sure you need an external terminator on your ext drive where the SCSI2SD card is. I think that's your problem!!

See this explanation: http://computer.howstuffworks.com/scsi4.htm

As I recall it, the terminators on the SCSI2SD board probably helps when it's sitting on its own in the SE/30 with nothing plugged into the ext SCSI port (ie no terminator), whereas when there is a DB25 SCSI cable attached and going out to a SCSI device, that external device (with 2 centronics SCSI ports) must have the other port terminated.

Get one off ebay cheaply and it should work then.

 

[BadGoldEagle]

Yeah I guess that's the problem. That's really stupid of me. Should have thought of that before. But then you only learn about life by making mistakes right ?

I'll try to get a cheap one and I'll report back next week end. I live 30km away from my macs... 

But it probably means that the Hard disk that was in the drive is ok as well... It did the same when I plugged it to my Mac Plus. The LED is dead but the drive fires up okay. Well at least it "sounds" ok.

 

[uniserver]

gosh i hate to say this... but the SCSI2CF adaptor that artmix sells... man that thing is great. no configuration required.

just open the package that comes from the mail... pop it into your vintage mac... run lido7 partition it...   and install or copy your os.

eazy cheesy. 

 

[BadGoldEagle]

I should have bought one of those SCSI2CF. But I think my SCSI2SD will work when I'll get that terminator.

I'll have to make a bespoke bracket for the SCSI2SD + your adapter uni for the Mac Portable. I'll be happy to post the file here on 68kmla for free so you can 3D print your own. But first I have to get my SE/30 backup and send my Portable's LB overseas (again) to techknight. I've already spent too much on getting that damn thing to work so I'm not going to give up now.

 

[TimHD]

I quite like the SCSI2SD (set up on Mac OSX via usb cable, then pop it into a SE/30 and install the System Software and you're away!!).

In your case, it was popping it into the external HDD and it not working that set you off (had similar issues when I tried to backup my HDD from ext HDD to the SD sitting in the SE/30 and vice versa, before I too realised it was a termination issue!.

Frankly, I still prefer the SDs - for one, I once forgot to reattach the power cable to the SCSI2SD when it was in my SE/30 but it just ran off the cable! Equally so, I am a little wary of CF drives on Macs that don't already have IDE drives (CF is naturally an IDE card, so what does a SCSI2CF card do, emulate IDE within SCSI?). Also, I've seen a lot of commentary suggesting dual CF cards are needed with a small 'sacrificial' CF drive used as the 'swap space' as there's every chance the CF will fail early. However, as my 630CD only allows single CF adapters, I really need to keep an eye on it in case it fails eventually it seems.

While I have seen the comments about the time it would actually take to wear down either a SD or CF card (i.e. years of continued use!), I saw more warnings re: CF than SD, so for mine, SD seems the better tech.

Either way, getting rid of IDE/SCSI 'hard' drives seems the go either way, and in that regards CF or SD is today, more reliable than a 20year old IDE or SCSI drive will ever be, so both are good options.

 

[NJRoadfan]

SCSI2CF cards are "bridge" interfaces. Its an IDE controller with a SCSI interface attached to it. The SCSI2SD works similar, except it uses SPI and a microSD card. The wear controller on SD and CF cards should be similar. I wouldn't be too concerned about killing a card though, particularly on a 68k Macintosh where virtual memory usually isn't used or is unavailable.

 

[BadGoldEagle]

So I received the SCSI terminator today and I've just tested the drive. It doesn't work even with the terminator installed.

Same problems. It hangs and then asks me for a floppy...

I would like to try hot plugging the scsi2sd but I'm wandering if that's not dangerous to do so for the machine.

I would have tried plugging the SCSI2SD internally on my other SE/30 but it doesn't have a working floppy drive. So I can't boot it up right now.

The 4GB micro-SD card might be the problem... What do you think?

The Sector count is 4194303, is that all right?

 Damn it. I paid so much for this thing and it's not working.  >

 

[BadGoldEagle]

IT'S A MIRACLE

IT'S WORKING

IT'S A SUCCESS

I decided to give it a go once more. This time I placed the ESD Anti Static bag underneath it. I was stupidly leaving the SCSI2SD directly on top of the original HD, and I think it generated interferences... And it booted right up. Lido could only see 2GB worth of SD card but still, that's better than nothing !

I was able to copy my entire HD to a 130mb partition on the SCSI2SD. It took 30 mins LOL. My rMBP takes about 20 secs to transfer a 150mb file.

Now I have about 1.95gigs left for games! Oh Yeah!

What I did to make it work in an external HD case (might help someone in the future): ID to 1, other settings as standard. Molex plug NOT connected to the HD PSU, it appears it doesn't need extra power when it's connected to the computer's SCSI port.

 

[Bunsen]

I was stupidly leaving the SCSI2SD directly on top of the original HD, and I think it generated interferences...

Sure, if by "interference" you mean "short-circuiting traces on the SCSI2SD"

 

[BadGoldEagle]

I guess so 

Sorry  :-/

 

[jeznav]

Just adding my to experience as well (I know its already a while since last post), that after many hours spent troubleshooting:

- Why HD SC Setup not working or failing to initialize, including using different vendor ids and using Patched version

- Tried other HD Tools like Lido, Anubis, HD SpeedTools which none worked. It was able to report size according to SCSI2SD eeprom, but was unable to write anything or reported 0 bytes remaining.

- Tried multiple SD Cards with different sizes, dd formatting, et al.

- Tried with/without molex connector

- Disabled Software SCSI Termination ( it was enabled )

After many searches, reading articles and forums, this post was my last hope deciding that maybe my SCSI2SD was defective, I got to the reading about anti-static and short-circuiting which gave me a clue. 
I had initially covered my entire SCSI2SD bottom PCB with a blank sticker from a label maker, and also removed a couple of double sided tape so it doesn't touch the metal housing beneath. It could be that the glue was a bit conductive? Cleaned it with alcohol and removed the gunk off. I placed a paper card underneath with the exact dimensions between the PCB and metal. Launched Anubis and noticed that the vendor ID is now reporting correctly (It would show a weird character). Tried to Init and partition and IT WORKED! So then, I popped in my other SD card with a bootable images, and lo and behold it FINALLY BOOTED! I had my head on the table reflecting back why wasn't this obvious.

Folks please don't put anything on the PCB that could cause a short-circuit even when you think it won't.

 

[aperezbios]

Just adding my to experience as well (I know its already a while since last post), that after many hours spent troubleshooting:

- Why HD SC Setup not working or failing to initialize, including using different vendor ids and using Patched version

- Tried other HD Tools like Lido, Anubis, HD SpeedTools which none worked. It was able to report size according to SCSI2SD eeprom, but was unable to write anything or reported 0 bytes remaining.

- Tried multiple SD Cards with different sizes, dd formatting, et al.

- Tried with/without molex connector

- Disabled Software SCSI Termination ( it was enabled )

After many searches, reading articles and forums, this post was my last hope deciding that maybe my SCSI2SD was defective, I got to the reading about anti-static and short-circuiting which gave me a clue. 
I had initially covered my entire SCSI2SD bottom PCB with a blank sticker from a label maker, and also removed a couple of double sided tape so it doesn't touch the metal housing beneath. It could be that the glue was a bit conductive? Cleaned it with alcohol and removed the gunk off. I placed a paper card underneath with the exact dimensions between the PCB and metal. Launched Anubis and noticed that the vendor ID is now reporting correctly (It would show a weird character). Tried to Init and partition and IT WORKED! So then, I popped in my other SD card with a bootable images, and lo and behold it FINALLY BOOTED! I had my head on the table reflecting back why wasn't this obvious.

Folks please don't put anything on the PCB that could cause a short-circuit even when you think it won't.

This is why we make and sell a proper 3.5" mounting bracket for SCSI2SD V6/V5.1. Since you don't mention which version you're using, and revived a ~four year old thread, it seems most likely you're using a V5.1. Would you like a proper mounting bracket?

 

[tecneeq]

I can't get my 5.0a to work.

Bought it a few years ago, never had the time to tinker with it. I installed the latest firmware using Linux. It worked, i can save and read the options.

However, as soon as there is a CF card inside, it freezes scsi2sd-util. Is this supposed to happen? Eject the CD card, scsi2sd-util works. Insert it, scsi2sd-util freezes. Bought another SD card to be sure, it's the same. Both SD cards work fine in a RPi.

Mounted the SCSI2SD into my Quadra 700 anyways, without luck.

Tried my Quadra 650, no luck either. Using Lido i can't even see the disk! The SCSI2SD blinks when Lido checks ID0, but nothing happens after that. :?:

Double checked to make sure no shorts occured.

 

[karrots]

Probably best to start a new thread rather than bring one back from the dead.