Seeking advice on final resolution with eBay seller.

[schmosef]

A few months ago, I won an eBay auction for a "lot of 3" Radius Rocket cards.

The seller shipped me only one card.

He claimed he used an AI for the listing title and product description and it made a mistake in the quantity.

I told him he could either pay for return shipping with a full refund, or refund me 2/3 of the auction amount. Otherwise, I would file a dispute with eBay.

He gave me a story about being broke and unable to refund me. He also said I should have somehow known the listing was only for one card.

So I filed a dispute with eBay. He didn't respond to them so eBay gave me a full refund and let me keep the card.

Ironically, I've been so busy lately I haven't been able to test the card.

It's been a few months now.

Part of me feels guilty about getting this card for free.

I'm considering messaging the seller and offering to send him 1/3 the auction amount via PayPal, to reflect the one card I did receive.

I'm not sure if he legitimately tried to scam me or if English is not his first language and he just didn't catch the mistakes in the listing.

What does the 68K Army think? Should I offer to send him some money?

 

[NJRoadfan]

Case closed, move on.

 

[finkmac]

??? why feel guilty. he basically scammed you and ebay sided with you.

if he used AI for the listing title, tough luck.

win win, case closed, all's well that ends well.

 

[David Cook]

Ironically, I've been so busy lately I haven't been able to test the card.

Test the card. If it works, reach out to the seller and offer whatever amount would make you feel good every time you use the card. Basically, turn a bad story into a good one.

 

[Byrd]

Case closed, move on.

Agreed +1 why bother engaging with the seller again when they were clearly out for a scam/sad story. AI descriptions put in text, not quantities in other fields.

 

[Unknown_K]

Why use AI to write an Ebay listing? Don't have the money to refund you, that's a scammer.

The problem with scammers is most people can be easily strung along with bullshit until the return time passes and that's the last time you will hear from the scammer.

 

[killvore]

You are legally entitled to keep the card and not worry about this anymore!

But if we look past the back and forth and sob stories: You wanted this card, and were willing to pay for it (and did so). Even though the seller is clearly out to lunch, they did actually provide you with something of value. So if the card works, go ahead and ping them and offer to send them whatever sum feels fair (1/3rd of the ask is probably fine). If they refuse or freak out or whatever, hey, it's not on you and you tried to do right by them in the circumstances!

 

[maceffects]

You are legally entitled to keep the card and not worry about this anymore!

I'm not so sure that eBay is the arbiter of legal interpretations. I'd actually say that it is a case of unjust enrichment.

The OP 1) received a benefit 2) it was at the sellers expense 3) the OP retained the benefit

Yes there was an error on the sellers part, but that doesn't free the buyer from an unjust enrichment claim.

It seems pretty clear cut that legally, if sued, the seller would have a good case for 1/3 of the value of the listing. As a practical matter that almost certainly wouldn't happen as it's not worth the small claims court costs and time. Morally, I'd feel compelled to pay as well.

I've seen cases where people buy Performa 575 machines on eBay knowing that even with the best packing they will break (and sellers don't know - information asymmetry) and buyers really only want to steal the board for their CC machine knowing eBay will side with them and give a full refund and they keep the item with 80% of the value of the order. Legally and ethically, I have issues with this. Not just the loss of a Mac but the intention to deprive the seller of value.

This is just my two cents, but I wouldn't want this hanging over me when simply paying the 1/3rd will solve it.

But if we look past the back and forth and sob stories: You wanted this card, and were willing to pay for it (and did so). Even though the seller is clearly out to lunch, they did actually provide you with something of value. So if the card works, go ahead and ping them and offer to send them whatever sum feels fair (1/3rd of the ask is probably fine). If they refuse or freak out or whatever, hey, it's not on you and you tried to do right by them in the circumstances!

100% agree

 

[joshc]

So I filed a dispute with eBay. He didn't respond to them so eBay gave me a full refund and let me keep the card.

So the seller had the chance here to respond to the dispute, and to put his side forward, but he didn't.

Part of me feels guilty about getting this card for free.

Don't.

I'm considering messaging the seller and offering to send him 1/3 the auction amount via PayPal, to reflect the one card I did receive.

Why would you do that?

He claimed he used an AI for the listing title and product description and it made a mistake in the quantity.

It's still the sellers responsbility to check the title and description themselves. I don't believe that he didn't realise this once the listing had gone live.

 

[Powerbase]

I'm unsure if eBay "takes" the money from the seller or they simply refunded you to solve the issue. So, the seller most likely retained what you paid. Like I said, I'm unsure.

Just as an aside, did the auction/sale listing show three cards, or the quantity simply listed three?

 

[schmosef]

To answer some questions:

1. The listing title was "Radius Rocket Accelerator Card 32MB 33MHz V1.0 256K 1991 for Macintosh Lot of 3".
   
   
2. I don't recall how many photos there were. There was only ever one card shown in any photo.
   
   
3. The description contained multiple references to the listing being for more than one card. Words to the effect of, "you can upgrade multiple computers".
   
   
4. Two days after I placed my "max bid", the seller added a note to the description (eBay showed the time stamp) to clarify the listing was for only one card.
   
   
5. I did not see the note until after I received the package with only one card. I immediately messaged the seller to inform him of his mistake. I then looked at the listing again to see if I misremembered the quantity. That's when I saw the note for the first time.
   
   
6. The auction ID is 197045483144. It's not showing up on eBay anymore. If anyone knows a way to see old listings, please share a link.
   
   
7. There were actually two disputes filed:
   1. I filed the first dispute when the seller refused to offer a return or partial refund. The seller did respond to the first dispute with a few excuses (it wasn't his fault the AI he used made a mistake, I should have known the listing was for only one card because of the auction amount, etc.).
      
      At the time I filed the first dispute, eBay's package tracking had not yet updated to indicate the package was delivered. After the package tracking was updated, I received a note from someone at eBay to say they needed to close the dispute (their system processed the dispute as "not received", which was incorrect). I was advised to immediately file a new dispute.
      
      
   2. I filed a second dispute as advised by eBay. I received a note from eBay to say there was no question I was owed a return or refund. They were going to give the seller a week to try to resolve this. If we did not agree on a resolution, I would get a full refund. The seller did not respond to the second dispute at all. After the seller's time to respond expired, eBay sent me a full refund and closed the dispute.

 

[schmosef]

I'm not so sure that eBay is the arbiter of legal interpretations. I'd actually say that it is a case of unjust enrichment.

The OP 1) received a benefit 2) it was at the sellers expense 3) the OP retained the benefit

Yes there was an error on the sellers part, but that doesn't free the buyer from an unjust enrichment claim.

It seems pretty clear cut that legally, if sued, the seller would have a good case for 1/3 of the value of the listing. As a practical matter that almost certainly wouldn't happen as it's not worth the small claims court costs and time. Morally, I'd feel compelled to pay as well.

I've seen cases where people buy Performa 575 machines on eBay knowing that even with the best packing they will break (and sellers don't know - information asymmetry) and buyers really only want to steal the board for their CC machine knowing eBay will side with them and give a full refund and they keep the item with 80% of the value of the order. Legally and ethically, I have issues with this. Not just the loss of a Mac but the intention to deprive the seller of value.

This is just my two cents, but I wouldn't want this hanging over me when simply paying the 1/3rd will solve it.



100% agree

I've bought a few things from you in the past. I think some of it through your site and some through eBay. We've not had any challenges with those transactions. The quality of your products is very high. I appreciate your perspective, as an experienced seller.

I want to say I have no concern about the legal implications. I'm in Canada. The seller is in the USA. The cost and effort to come after me would not be worth it.

I'm much more concerned about the moral implications. I'm the kind of guy who walks back into the grocery store when I notice they didn't scan one of my items.

I agree with you, @killvore and @David Cook.

I'm going to test the card in a few weeks. If it works, I'll reach out to the seller to offer a 1/3 payment. He did mention, in our private messages, the card (and Mac II series computer it was in) were sitting untouched in a barn for 20 years and he had no idea if it worked.

 

[Unknown_K]

Was the max bid a sniping bid for the last few seconds of the auction or a normal bid?

I was under the impression you can't change descriptions after somebody bids.

 

[mikes-macs]

He gave me a story about being broke and unable to refund me.

The seller shouldn’t have spent the money you sent until the auction is final. That way he would be able to give you a 2/3 refund from what you sent. He probably had your payment spent within the hour you sent it.
Do not send him any more money because this will encourage him to repeat this dishonest practice.
BTW I believe he still gets charged for the eBay selling fees and you should give negative feedback.

 

[schmosef]

Was the max bid a sniping bid for the last few seconds of the auction or a normal bid?

I was under the impression you can't change descriptions after somebody bids.

Is sniping a thing with eBay? If so, I wasn't aware. I've made sniping bids with Yahoo Japan Auctions a few times.

It was a standard eBay bid.

When you bid on eBay, you can indicate what your "max bid" is. If you get outbid, eBay will auto-bid for you in small increments until your bid is the highest or your max bid has been reached.

 

[Unknown_K]

Some people use sniping tools, I never have. Any bid you enter is a max bid and eBay will counter any other bid until your max is reached.

About the only thing I do is if I bid $20 I will make it $20.03 or something so that the next bid increment is $20.50 since most people enter whole numbers.

 

[schmosef]

The seller shouldn’t have spent the money you sent until the auction is final. That way he would be able to give you a 2/3 refund from what you sent. He probably had your payment spent within the hour you sent it.
Do not send him any more money because this will encourage him to repeat this dishonest practice.
BTW I believe he still gets charged for the eBay selling fees and you should give negative feedback.

I've never sold anything on eBay.

I always assumed the site held the funds for a few weeks, to ensure there were no disputes, before releasing them to the seller.

Maybe someone else can clarify.

I did post negative feedback to his seller profile.

 

[schmosef]

About the only thing I do is if I bid $20 I will make it $20.03 or something so that the next bid increment is $20.50 since most people enter whole numbers.

This is good advice. Thank you.

 

[Unknown_K]

They hold money for new members to make sure its not a scam.

 

[Powerbase]

To answer some questions:

1. The listing title was "Radius Rocket Accelerator Card 32MB 33MHz V1.0 256K 1991 for Macintosh Lot of 3".
   
   
2. I don't recall how many photos there were. There was only ever one card shown in any photos.
   
   
3. The description contained multiple references to the listing being for more than one card. Words to the effect of, "you can upgrade multiple computers".
   
   
4. Two days after I placed my "max bid", the seller added a note to the description (eBay showed the time stamp) to clarify the listing was for only one card.
   
   
5. I did not see the note until after I received the package with only one card. I immediately messaged the seller to inform him of his mistake. I then looked at the listing again to see if I misremembered the quantity. That's when I saw the note for the first time.
   
   
6. The auction ID is 197045483144. It's not showing up on eBay anymore. If anyone knows a way to see old listings, please share a link.
   
   
7. There were actually two disputes filed:
   1. I filed the first dispute when the seller refused to offer a return or partial refund. The seller did respond to the first dispute with a few excuses (it wasn't his fault the AI he used made a mistake, I should have known the listing was for only one card because of the auction amount, etc.).
      
      At the time I filed the first dispute, eBay's package tracking had not yet updated to indicate the package was delivered. After the package tracking was updated, I received a note from someone at eBay to say they needed to close the dispute (their system processed the dispute as "not received", which was incorrect). I was advised to immediately file a new dispute.
      
      
   2. I filed a second dispute as advised by eBay. I received a note from eBay to say there was no question I was owed a return or refund. They were going to give the seller a week to try to resolve this. If we did not agree on a resolution, I would get a full refund. The seller did not respond to the second dispute at all. After the seller's time to respond expired, eBay sent me a full refund and closed the dispute.

Ahhh, yeah that was real dirty not gonna lie. AI my butt, that was intentional as far as I'm concerned. I thought they might have just entered 3 instead of 1 in the quantity field but "Lot of 3" is three of them. If they decided to sell on the side, I'm pretty sure you can cancel an auction at any time with some penalty.

You made the effort to peacefully resolve the situation, so I wouldn't feel particularly bad. I mean, you DID pay and ebay chose to refund you.

Is that going to be a new future cop out of problems, "My AI messed up, not me".