RIP LC 575

[luddite]

There are no good 575s. In fact the whole 5xx series was some kind of horrible mutant Mac-enstein design that had neither grace nor beauty. They didn't get it right until the 5000 series.

I like the 575... viewed from the front, it has a commanding appearance; feet planted squarely on the ground, chin thrust defiantly forward, gazing skyward like a heroic worker in a soviet propaganda film. From the side, it has the look of a fierce predator crouching on its powerful haunches, ready to spring on its unsuspecting prey.

Certainly a more handsome machine than the smurftastic Color Classic.

 

[alk]

The 575 had the best monitor of the entire 5xx series. The more common 580 was basically the same but with a cheaper screen to keep the price down.

That is likely true, but it was the same Sony Trinitron used in the Color Classic. Thanks for reminding me about the 580, that truly was the ugly duckling of an already deformed product line. In fact the same cheap monitor in the 5000 series destroyed any aesthetic beauty of that machine which was designed to use the Trinitron "flat" screen. Damn you Apple!

Er, all Hook models up to the 580 had 14" Trinitrons in them that easily match and surpass the quality of the Color Classic's display. The 580 had a shadow mask tube. The 580 was also based on the 630 motherboard (IDE hard drives, shared DRAM for video). However, the 580 does allow the incorporation of a TV tuner, so that gets it some points back. ;-)

Peace,

Drew

 

[alk]

I like the 575... viewed from the front, it has a commanding appearance; feet planted squarely on the ground, chin thrust defiantly forward, gazing skyward like a heroic worker in a soviet propaganda film. From the side, it has the look of a fierce predator crouching on its powerful haunches, ready to spring on its unsuspecting prey.

That's funny. I always thought it kind of looked like a sphinx.

Peace,

Drew

 

[Mac128]

That's funny. I always thought it kind of looked like a sphinx.

I would go with Sphinx myself. Except the Sphinx was built correctly, ie a broader base than head. If you don't pick up a 5xx exactly right, it will tip forward and crack its commanding head wide open. From the back it sort of looks like a mausoleum crypt vault. Structurally, there is a reason it is more likely to be damaged during shipping ... it is a poorly engineered and an unwieldy design. I would be interested to know the statistics of the original damaged inventory during shipping, which in those days I believe was mostly handled by Apple which I'm sure exercised significantly more care than UPS.

Anyone who has Kunkle's Apple Design book can see pictures of the 5xx series prototypes, all of which blow the socks off what they ended up with. One of these days I'll get around to posting them. But it's clear, whatever you think about the CC, the Hook design was inspired by the CC and drew upon its unique features. It owes to the CC all of the good and none of the bad.

The biggest problem with the 5xx is that once those Macs get to that size, I would much rather go with a separate monitor and CPU which were easier to move around, ship and configure. The 5000 series improved the AIO design to the point that it all fit in the equivalent cabinet size to a monitor. The Power Mac G3 AIO tried to bee too much and ended up being almost as unwieldy as the 5xx. What barely saves it is good design and construction, despite the fact it looks like a bug molar. The iMac of course fixed all of that.

Just out of curiosity, If I was absolutely in love with the 5xx case design and wouldn't want any other computer sitting on my desk, would the contributors to this article be as outraged if I wanted to strip the logicboard out of a 5500 to upgrade my 580? Or is that just as taboo?

 

[luddite]

The biggest problem with the 5xx is that once those Macs get to that size, I would much rather go with a separate monitor and CPU which were easier to move around, ship and configure.

It's also worth noting that a 475 with the matching monitor is considerably more compact than the 575... and prettier.

 

[alk]

Just out of curiosity, If I was absolutely in love with the 5xx case design and wouldn't want any other computer sitting on my desk, would the contributors to this article be as outraged if I wanted to strip the logicboard out of a 5500 to upgrade my 580? Or is that just as taboo?

Personally, I don't hold stock in the idea that a computer deserves any more respect than any other tool. Put a rock through it for all I care. (Or don't and donate it to charity - it would be a shame to destroy a tool just because you can when another person might get some use from it.)

That said, you would have trouble putting a 5500 board in a 5x0 for two reasons: Machines up to the 575 (inclusive) had a shorter logic board so it won't fit physically. The 5500 requires 3.3V which isn't supplied by the 5x0 power supply (to the best of my knowledge). So even if you wanted to put a 5500 board in a 580 where it might physically fit, it wouldn't run.

However, you could add a 3.3V regulator to a 580 and probably be fine. And while you are at it, why not swap in the Trinitron CRT from an abandoned LC 520? Then it would be a great machine! ;-)

Peace,

Drew

 

[Mike Richardson]

Just out of curiosity, If I was absolutely in love with the 5xx case design and wouldn't want any other computer sitting on my desk, would the contributors to this article be as outraged if I wanted to strip the logicboard out of a 5500 to upgrade my 580? Or is that just as taboo?

Assuming that were possible, it would still be a terrible waste of a computer just to get the motherboard out of it.

Personally, I don't hold stock in the idea that a computer deserves any more respect than any other tool. Put a rock through it for all I care. (Or don't and donate it to charity - it would be a shame to destroy a tool just because you can when another person might get some use from it.)

At what point do they stop being a tool and become something more?

 

[alk]

Pretty much the only exception to that rule for me is when the computer is an observed collectable: The price for resale exceeds the value of the computer based on it's capabilities. But at that point the computer stops being a tool and becomes a collector's item. My TAM is a case in point. The 5500/250 has equal capabilities, and paying more than $50 for one is certifiable insanity (IMO), but I happily paid several hundred for my TAM. I won't cannibalize the TAM because it is not a tool. It is a collector's item that I invested in.

The Color Classic is similarly collectable but holds significantly less value than the TAM. As it is less valuable, I had no problem gutting and carving mine to convert it to a Takky (though the conversion is as yet incomplete). The 5x0 series and 5xxx series have no collector's value and thus no intrinsic worth other than what use I can get out of them as a tool. That doesn't stop me from buying one and preserving it in my collection, but I feel no guilt about destroying a second, third, or thirtieth for any reason provided that the destruction results in some increase in overall net worth or even some temporary entertainment (though, actually, destroying one for fun might make me feel guilty because I have deprived someone else of a useful tool just for entertainment's sake).

Peace,

Drew

 

[Mike Richardson]

Pretty much the only exception to that rule for me is when the computer is an observed collectable: The price for resale exceeds the value of the computer based on it's capabilities. But at that point the computer stops being a tool and becomes a collector's item. My TAM is a case in point. The 5500/250 has equal capabilities, and paying more than $50 for one is certifiable insanity (IMO), but I happily paid several hundred for my TAM. I won't cannibalize the TAM because it is not a tool. It is a collector's item that I invested in.
The Color Classic is similarly collectable but holds significantly less value than the TAM. As it is less valuable, I had no problem gutting and carving mine to convert it to a Takky (though the conversion is as yet incomplete). The 5x0 series and 5xxx series have no collector's value and thus no intrinsic worth other than what use I can get out of them as a tool. That doesn't stop me from buying one and preserving it in my collection, but I feel no guilt about destroying a second, third, or thirtieth for any reason provided that the destruction results in some increase in overall net worth or even some temporary entertainment (though, actually, destroying one for fun might make me feel guilty because I have deprived someone else of a useful tool just for entertainment's sake).

Peace,

Drew

While particular computers may not be collectable now, what's to say that the computer won't be collectable in the future?

Most computers of a particular model wind up getting crushed or recycled or thrown away, leaving the remaining models more scarce. Look at the Apple I. They made something like a few hundred? Or perhaps thousand. But now there exists only a handful of such computers.

Most LC 5xx will be crushed. In 10 years I bet they're collectable.

 

[Unknown_K]

There are plenty of things that are collectable and still almost worthless.

Plenty of 5xx units will be around for collectors in the future I think.

 

[alk]

Most LC 5xx will be crushed. In 10 years I bet they're collectable.

Well, you are welcome to hold onto them until the. For your sake, I hope they don't turn into $10 pieces of junk that you offload at a garage sale because your family is screaming at you that they want a place to park the car.

This is bad logic. Commodity tools are virtually never collectible unless they are fairly antique. The reason people throw them away is because they are without value from the start. The same is NOT true of machines like the TAM and Apple I which were originally acknowledged to be in short supply or had other defining characteristics that gave them value beyond their mere utility. The Apple I was hardly a capable machine, and even though it was rare, it didn't have value because of the rareness. It had value because of it's novelty. The same is true of the Mac TV and the TAM. The same is true of most prototypes and pre-production Macs. Can you say this about the LC 575?

You have to draw the line somewhere lest you become a pack rat. The mentality you describe just results in needless hoarding. Why stop with the LC 580? Why not also include that vintage Sony WEGA Trinitron TV you've got in your living room? In thirty years time, they'll be plenty rare, too! And why stop even there?! What about that cordless phone you've got? No doubt that in one hundred years, you'll be the only person who has one! My, won't that be a hit on Antiques Roadshow!

Your point neglects the reality that most machines, no matter how much you wish it weren't true, will just never be collectibles. And besides, even if one simply defines something's value to a collector by it's rarity, then diminishing the supply by destroying surplus equipment, one automatically increases the value of the remainder of the supply. In that case, you should applaud the needless destruction of Macs in other people's collections. But that is a poor way to define a collector's item's value.

Peace,

Drew

 

[Mac128]

That said, you would have trouble putting a 5500 board in a 5x0 for two reasons: Machines up to the 575 (inclusive) had a shorter logic board so it won't fit physically. The 5500 requires 3.3V which isn't supplied by the 5x0 power supply (to the best of my knowledge). So even if you wanted to put a 5500 board in a 580 where it might physically fit, it wouldn't run. However, you could add a 3.3V regulator to a 580 and probably be fine.

I try not to make this stuff up. Warning, not for those who think the 5xx or 5xxx series is sacred. -grin-

http://www.macmod.com/content/view/34/192/

But you weren't far off on the 3.3V regulator:

http://68kmla.org/forums/archive/topic.asp%3FTOPIC_ID=5097.html

And while you are at it, why not swap in the Trinitron CRT from an abandoned LC 520? Then it would be a great machine!

This will probably only compound my sacrilege, but I would go for a transplant of the 580 guts wholesale into a useless 520 case (can we all agree the 520 was useless?). Then swap with the PPC logicboard and that would give the the best possible model/features. The reverse would be true as well, if only Apple had made one model of the 5xxx series with the Trinitron, the way it had been designed. The Trinitron might fit in a 5500 case, but there would definitely be some gaps around the sides. Though a little putty sanding and painting would clean that right up. Black really helps minimize all these behemoths.

 

[Mike Richardson]

Well, you are welcome to hold onto them until the. For your sake, I hope they don't turn into $10 pieces of junk that you offload at a garage sale because your family is screaming at you that they want a place to park the car.

I just sold two LC 550s for $100 each. I commonly sell LC 575s for $20-$50 on eBay. They are stored in a storage center. At least 50 Macs from schools and such which I pack and sell.

You have to draw the line somewhere lest you become a pack rat. The mentality you describe just results in needless hoarding. Why stop with the LC 580? Why not also include that vintage Sony WEGA Trinitron TV you've got in your living room? In thirty years time, they'll be plenty rare, too! And why stop even there?! What about that cordless phone you've got? No doubt that in one hundred years, you'll be the only person who has one! My, won't that be a hit on Antiques Roadshow!

I don't really care about Sony TVs and such. I do care about Apple though. But it's true that my current TV, if I kept it for 50 years, would be collectable after such time. I am not advocating we keep the Macs sitting around for 50 years so they become collectable.

Your point neglects the reality that most machines, no matter how much you wish it weren't true, will just never be collectibles. And besides, even if one simply defines something's value to a collector by it's rarity, then diminishing the supply by destroying surplus equipment, one automatically increases the value of the remainder of the supply. In that case, you should applaud the needless destruction of Macs in other people's collections. But that is a poor way to define a collector's item's value.

They will become collectable in time. Was the Color Classic really that rare? Everyone seems to adore those and based on the high prices they fetch on eBay they appear to be somewhat collectable. But I'm sure a lot have been crushed, reducing the quantity available.

 

[alk]

I'm glad for you, and I'm not trying to argue with you. All I am doing is indicating what I think is a healthy attitude to have when collecting computers. I do my share of collecting worthless pieces of electronics (mostly Macs), but I also try not to get emotionally attached to the idea that they have some intrinsic worth.

It's awesome for you that you can sell your 5xx AIOs for such high prices. I think this is an aberration, though, and probably not a price the market will sustain. These machines are without intrinsic value, and I find it odd that anyone would pay more than a couple tens of dollars for one. As some have already pointed out, these sales may be the result of selling to young adults who have some disposable income and who are experiencing nostalgia for the computers they grew up with. If so, that trend won't last. I encourage you to sell as many of them as possible as quickly as possible (especially while the US dollar is in the tank).

Peace,

Drew

 

[Quadraman]

I'm glad for you, and I'm not trying to argue with you. All I am doing is indicating what I think is a healthy attitude to have when collecting computers. I do my share of collecting worthless pieces of electronics (mostly Macs), but I also try not to get emotionally attached to the idea that they have some intrinsic worth.
It's awesome for you that you can sell your 5xx AIOs for such high prices. I think this is an aberration, though, and probably not a price the market will sustain. These machines are without intrinsic value, and I find it odd that anyone would pay more than a couple tens of dollars for one. As some have already pointed out, these sales may be the result of selling to young adults who have some disposable income and who are experiencing nostalgia for the computers they grew up with. If so, that trend won't last. I encourage you to sell as many of them as possible as quickly as possible (especially while the US dollar is in the tank).

Peace,

Drew

I have to agree with this assessment. 5xx models going for over $100 can't last. You can get a G3 AIO or iMac for less than that.

 

[Mike Richardson]

The low dollar may be contributing to international sales. Although I stopped sales temporarily due to the crushed Mac I plan to ramp up again soon.