Quadra video versus high end Nubus

[beachycove]

Does anyone have a good sense of how the logic board video of a high end Quadra compares with a (good) accelerated Nubus card in performance?

I ask because:

a) Nubus itself is relatively slow, whereas the logic board video of a Quadra is not encumbered by the Nubus architecture;

B) I am wondering whether adding a good Nubus card (e.g., a late Radius Nubus accelerator) to a Quadra for anything other than a second monitor is worthwhile;

c) and thus whether Nubus video cards are best kept for 68030 machines.

 

[CelGen]

Seems to be decent enough for Photoshop after you max out the VRAM. Seems to handle video pretty well too.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

It's not a meaningful question in those general terms, unless you specify the software to be run, there is no answer.

Quadra video was pretty anemic, other than doing big spreadsheets at a low color depths.

Even the mighty 840AV with both MB of VRAM installed falls to its 16bit knees slinging just two pages of pixels, something any 3MB 68030 era NuBus Card can do with ease, some sporting four DSPs to the 840av's one for use in Graphic Design and CAD redraws.

Video doesn't count, it never leaves the NuBus slot on any Quadra w/o the av suffix. The 660 can't do much of anything at all with its paltry 1MB of VRAM. There was maybe one(?) VidCap Card ever made for the 840av's PDS. Dunno if it was worthwhile or not, some claimed it could do better than the NuBus Cards in PPC Macs, but I've never heard any claims about an 840av PDS/VidCap solution running head to head with a PCI Mac.

So unless your Quadra era gaming needs exceeded 640 x 480 at 16 bit, 1MB VRAM Quadra Video was fine and faster than NuBus.

2MB Quadra 840av Video got you over the 24bit hump at 640 x 480, 800 x 600 and a big whopping 832 x 624.

No, NuBus VidCards need not be relegated to the 68030 machines . . . unless you've got a really crappy little monitor! }

 

[beachycove]

OK, concrete examples:

Quadra 650, System 7.6.1 for AppleShare IP access to X.4 so as to transfer images, 128MB RAM, used primarily as a scanning station with a Color OneScanner 1200/30, software used mainly Photoshop 4 and Acrobat 3. I have a Storm 2xDSP Nubus card in this machine (no video output/port from this card, though), so that complicates the question somewhat. VRam maxxed, of course; also has a PDS Quad 040 accelerator @ 40MHz with cache. Monitor a 1024x768 Philips LCD. Very fast, highly upgraded Quadra, mint, still with one spare Nubus slot. Would it benefit from one of the cards below? Maybe.

Quadra 840av, with a SpigotPower AV card specific to the AV (again, no video output from this card, which is used for digitizing video rather than displaying it), 96 or 128MB RAM, I forget. Running 8.1 for HFS+ support. VRam maxxed. General software packages installed include Adobe products as above (though I really just use the 650, which is faster in the configuration given), but this one also has Premiere and Deck and such, since I intended it on set-up to function as an actual AV machine. Would it benefit from one of the cards below? Probably not.

Quadra 950. I have two of these; one is an A/UX box, where Nubus video card support is more or less non-existent. The second one is not used as more than a shelf support currently, but I would like to bring it into some kind of service. 64MB+ RAM (I have some 16MB simms, plus a collection of 4MBs, so it can be brought up to maybe 96MB or some such), and VRam is already maxxed. I would probably go here with an earlier System 7 installation (7.1 or 7.5, which I happen to like), and so the question: do I equip with Nubus video or leave it as it is?

At the high end of the Nubus pile, I have available a Radius PrecisionColor 24x, a Radius Thunder IV 1360, a RasterOps 8/24 XLi, an Apple 8-24GC and a Futura II. All are unused.

I thought it interesting that CelGen, who like me has tons of this stuff, thought subjectively that there is not much between the onboard video of a Quadra and a good Nubus card. That's been my sense, but it occurred to me on thinking about doing something with the 950 yesterday that I might be completely wrong, and that is why I am asking.

Is the truth that what really matters with this gear is the Control Panel, and what it makes the card capable of doing? So, e.g., the card might not be faster, or much faster, than the onboard video of a Quadra, but can nevertheless do more interesting things? Maybe the advantage is really the pan & zoom/ virtual desktops/ G-worlds etc. that become possible rather than just general Quickdraw acceleration, so that this would make it worth doing the upgrade. After all, it is the software that makes the hardware run, and it is software that we actually use.

I would probably make the 950 a Claris software haven. So QuickDraw likely matters. As for thousands versus millions of colours, I can't tell the difference on a 68k machine, though it does become obvious enough even to me in OSX.

I suppose I could always just stick all five of the cards available in the 950 and have a shoot-out, but something tells me that the left hand control panel would not know what the right hand control panel was doing.

 

[olePigeon]

I think your Radius Thunder IV is the best of the lot.

 

[CelGen]

I thought it interesting that CelGen, who like me has tons of this stuff, thought subjectively that there is not much between the onboard video of a Quadra and a good Nubus card.

It could also just be that I'm not pushing it enough to see the bat points so pardon my bias.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Unless the two Radius Cards decide they don't like each other, I'm pretty sure the Monitors Control Panel will work fine.

The only config that caused me any trouble so far was three of the Apple Macintosh 24AC ROM'd version of the Radius Card stepping all over each others' feet trying to dance with each other and the three VidCards that showed them up . . . just this once.

It all boils down to the monitor you're using and how many pixels you want to see on it at this point. With all those slots available, the Quadra 950* simply begs for a 3MB NuBus VidCard to give it 24bit pixels to display at anything over 16" resolution.

BTW, that 3MB SuperMac Spectrum 24/V.3 in the pet IIfx has four DSPs on it to run PhotoShop Filters . . .

. . . that bit of NuBus Goodness came installed in the Radius 81/110 conquest back in the day . . . and has four empty G-World slots on it still . . .

. . . methinks that NuBus VidCard running 21" @ 24bit in your 950 would blow the doors off the "mighty" 840AV Video pushing only 16" @ 24bit for production work. }

The Video Production work sounds interesting, I remain clueless about that at this point.

I'm guessing the 840AV for VidCap coupled with the 950/NuBus Slots and its massive storage capacity for Video Editing might be the sweet spot? :?:

It's the System that counts, not the individual Components in almost every case. I'm still learning this stuff too, it's new territory for me. I've never run Photoshop or done any Raster Imaging Production. Back in the day, my brain handled the color and the non-WYSIWYG B&W TPD, coupled with the Rocket33 in the IIx, was plenty good enough for Vector Graphics Production right up until AI's PPC only upgrade pushed me out of my comfy little 33MHz 68040/32MB RAM/System 7.0.1 Production System.

* let's play "Where is Waldo?" for contradictory LEMspecs again! :