News To Me!

[funkytoad]

So I think it is safe to say, we are all know of The Classic II (Aka: Performa 200).

I have always seen them like this.

But today I saw this: http://www.terramaja.nl/uploaded_files/Kleine%20Mac%202.JPG

I knew that they sold it as a "Performa 200" for a while,

But I wasn't aware of that they ever had that written on the case.

Anyone here have a marked Perfroma 200?

-funkytoad

 

[equill]

No. I have two bog-standard Classic IIs, with the only difference being that one has the vent-holes on the left side, for the speaker. However, Performa 200s pop up on eBay from time to time, although not usually with Dutch localizations of the software. There was a Performa 400 (LC II) in this house some years ago, and its badging was similar to that of the 200.

de

 

[Franklinstein]

I've seen one before, at a thrift store in Oregon. I remember it because I had never seen one before - I knew all about the LC-form Performas, but not about the Classic types (I think the 200 was the only Classic model). I've never seen one in person after then, tho. I doubt they were hot sellers.

 

[JDW]

The third paragraph of the Macintosh Performa Wiki has some information of interest. I personally disagree with the author's consensus in the 3rd sentence of paragraph-3 and feel that the reasons for the Performa line's failure is more accurately spelling out in the 5th and 6th sentences. I always felt the Performa brand was an Apple marketing gimmick.

But as Equill points out, the hardware of the Performa 200 and the "Classic II" is largely the same. I wouldn't say though that you would be buying more "value" by getting a Performa 200 versus a Classic II merely due to the lack of inherent value in that "Performa" name. However, most people who buy Classics or Classic II's on EBAY really don't buy those models for reasons of "value" as they are less in value than other compacts like a stock 128k or Plus or SE/30. That's why Classics sell for such low prices versus other compacts on EBAY. But if you're buying for the sake of just playing with an old B&W Mac, then there's nothing that need stop you from picking up even a Performa 200.

 

[funkytoad]

Thank you for all the great info everyone.

I have two Classic IIs that are great for playing around with.

I would like to find a Performa 200 Someday.

 

[Mac128]

I consider Glen Sanford's site to be one of the most comprehensively informative of the general Mac hardware variety: http://www.apple-history.com/?page=gallery&model=classic_II&performa=off&sort=date&order=ASC

As I understand it, there was absolutely NO difference in hardware between the Performa and Classic. The main difference was that it came bundled with extra software which was a hallmark of the Perfoma line and in the case of the Classic (per Apple-History.com) even came with a modem!

As Charlieman once pointed out to me, badging is a minor issue and an easy and cheap final application to the case. This explains the existence of badged Macintosh EDs, Macintosh Plus EDs, SE 1/20s, etc.

However, if you start including Performas in your collection, it will truly inflate in size. I think Glen Sanford has the right idea on the Apple-History site, ignore the Performas much like the general public did. (perhaps I hate Performas so much because the first new Mac I ever bought myself was a Performa 6400 which Apple begrudgingly eventually replaced with a Power Mac 6500)

 

[alk]

I would be much more interested in finding a Performa 250 or Performa 275 than a Performa 200 if I'm looking for a rare all-in-one, but that's just me.

My first Mac was a Performa 460. It was essentially an LC III+ (33 MHz 68030 in an LC-style case), but considering that the 46x line was more common than the LC III+ line, you might argue that the LC III+ was a copy of the 460. It was a fine machine, and I never had any trouble with it. You could argue that it was underpowered compared to the other Macs of the time (many of them with '040 processors), but then you'd be missing the point: If you wanted to spend a mint for a machine with three NuBus slots and an '040, you would have bought a Quadra. That's like arguing that the BMW 3-series is garbage because for only a couple tens of grand more, you can buy a BMW-7 series.

Other than the ridiculously outdated video controller in the 6400 and the low memory ceiling, I don't see what the problem is with that machine. I much prefer the 5400, but still, the machine is quite capable for a low-end, low-price PCI Mac.

Peace,

Drew

 

[Charlieman]

The third paragraph of the Macintosh Performa Wiki has some information of interest. I personally disagree with the author's consensus in the 3rd sentence of paragraph-3 and feel that the reasons for the Performa line's failure is more accurately spelling out in the 5th and 6th sentences. I always felt the Performa brand was an Apple marketing gimmick.

I tend to agree. The attempt to create different models for different retailers, by bundling the same hardware with slightly varying "extras", only creates suspicion in consumers.

Some manufacturers still do it. The other day, two work colleagues were checking the price for a TV offered at a good price in Spain. The exact model was only available from one Spanish retailer, but the generic model and "retailer specials" were available across the EU.

 

[stevep]

I have one marked as a Peforma 200. Got it on eBay.

 

[equill]

In the ensuing fifteen-odd years I have seen more Classic IIs than Performa 200s, and given that their difference from the 'parent' machine was in software rather than hardware, I suspect that their relative scarcity should give them far more cachet as collectors items.

As alk points out above, the other Compact AIO/Performa pairings also do have scarcity status. Despite that, I own two Performa 250s and only one Colour Classic. I exchanged with Stuart Bell, for his collection, one of my P250 badges for a CC badge, but both of us ended up with hybrids because the P250's serial numbers end with 'J' whereas the CC's end with 'G'. As for the CC II and P275, I suppose that one henstooth is as scarce as another.

de

 

[Mac128]

given that their difference from the 'parent' machine was in software rather than hardware, I suspect that their relative scarcity should give them far more cachet as collectors items.

It should, but it doesn't. Kind of like the badged 128K and Macintosh. I think the idea one came first outranks the paucity of the other. Besides, are we really going to let Apple pull a fast-one and continue to rip us off long after the Performa line went the way of the dodo, simply to showcase some rare badging? I hope not.

alk, FYI, at the time, there was a webpage dedicated to the Performa problems, particularly the 6400 and demanding its recall. There were widespread video problems, the Geoport never worked correctly and there were other random issues that Apple never fully resolved. As usual they refused to acknowledge a widespread problem and in the end I had to sign a confidentiality agreement to get mine replaced. By contrast, the PowerMac 6500 was a fantastic machine, basically the same but with all the bugs worked out.

 

[equill]

I have no hard-and-fast assessment of the value of Compact AIO Performas. They were clones of their models as far as hardware goes, unlike many later Performas that were conceived and executed as a model unto themselves. (I did a rough count once of the number of Performa models, for a post somewhere. About 70, from memory, although I could be out by a few. A remarkable number, anyway.)

The Compact AIO Performas, then, are as useful, appealing and collectible as their models when their debilitating/specific software is removed. No-one would suggest that Austin 7 cars are tearaways, but they have their following still. A Performa 200 with its full 10MB of RAM, an FPU PDS card and a 120MB hard drive is as accomplished as a Classic II of the same specification, and quite possibly scarcer.

By the way, the sins of Apple at any one time are surely the sins of the then current employees? They aren't a permanent albatross around the necks of present employees.

de

 

[Charlieman]

No-one would suggest that Austin 7 cars are tearaways, but they have their following still.

Somewhat off topic, but a couple of years ago, I noticed an Austin 7 Chummy being pursued (at the legal speed limit in town, 30mph) by a Lamborgini Countach. I know which driver was having the most fun at that moment... A similar rule applies to using compact Macs: there are often easier ways of tackling things with a more modern Mac or PC, but sometimes it's just fun to stretch the old hardware a little.

 

[Mac128]

equill, check out http://www.apple-history.com/ and sort the list by family, about mid-way down there is an exceedingly long list of Performa models, more than any other series of Apple computer. In fact, these are just the macro models, click on any one of them and the various sub-models associated wich may not be independently listed. At your count of 70, it sounds like even Glen Sanford may have missed a few ...

My Performa 6400 was also the PowerMac 6400 (and if I recall was the LAST Performa model), the PowerMac being the more scare variety, oddly enough. But, for whatever reason I would prefer to have the PowerMac as a collectible. If I were looking for a practical computer, I guess it wouldn't matter. In comparing to cars, I would align the comparison more to Ford's partnership with Mazda. If you were a collector of Mazda cars, I seriously doubt if you would include the Ford badging of certain models for the US in your collection and especially not Mazda badging of certain Ford vehicles (like the Mazda 121 – a rebadged Ford Fiesta), unless you had unlimited resources and obsessive compulsive disorder ... but, driving one is a completely different matter.

As for Apple, I don't doubt the role of the employees and management at any given time. However, Apple has a repeated habit dating back to the introduction of the John Scully corporate culture, of ignoring major deficiencies in their hardware which persists today. It just happened recently with my MacBook battery and I have delt with it on every Macintosh I have ever owned. Steve Jobs has picked up on it too. I saw the video of the iPhone release in the UK and he was asked what he thought about people being able to use the iPhone with other networks and he played dumb ... some very bad acting by the way ... until he was pressed to finally comment on the hacks. WHile this may well be the nature of corporate culture in general, Apple has consistently performed (or rather not performed) with predictable behavior in such matters. Personally, I blame the lawyers. Regardless of which employees are running the companies, lawyers tend to infest them like cockroaches. So the current occupants can move out, but the new ones are still going to have to deal with the pests. In a less negative metaphor, the lawyers set up legal policies which become like the constitutions of sovereign nations. Leadership may change but they still have to deal with the legacies of the past, which often determine how they must deal with current and future liabilities.