MDD FW800 G4 max hard drive capacity?

[Schmoburger]

ANybody know for certain what the maximum hard drive capacity is that a FW800 Mirror-door G4 tower will recognise on the internal bus? Am I right in assuming somewhere around about the 250-500Gb mark? Cant find much documentation on max-out specs of the later G4's...

 

[Byrd]

Due to the MDD having 48 bit LBA, > 137GB, I think the max size IDE drive made is 750GB.

 

[Schmoburger]

Sweet cheers for that!

 

[Unknown_K]

The original Quicksilver was the last one that had a 128GB limit on IDE, later Quicksilvers and all MDD can use whatever size EIDE drive was made (and I assume any SATA drive with EIDE adapter).

 

[waynestewart]

This made me curious and I had 1tb and 3tb Seagate drives siting on the table

Using an IDE to SATA adapter I connected them to a MDDs ide bus.

They both showed up on the desktop. I could read and write to them.

This was a FW800 MDD running 10.5.8

 

[Unknown_K]

Did you benchmark those drives? Was wondering how bad the adapters slowed down the drives, and what speed the Mac assumed they were (ATA133?).

 

[Schmoburger]

Hmmmm handy to know... I'd probably settle for some IDE drives if I can get hold of new items... I believe for my purposes, a pair of 500's or even 250's would be more than adequate. That said, if I had to go SATA, no issue.

 

[waynestewart]

I just tried them to see if they worked. I'll try benchmarking them this weekend if I can. It'd be interesting to compare. The MDD has a 320gb ide and on a SATA card a 500gb. It'd be interesting to see how the drives compare on the adapter and the SATA card.

The MDD has an ATA66 and an ATA100 bus so I'd guess it sees the drive as one of those.

 

[waynestewart]

System Info

Xbench Version 1.3

System Version 10.5.8 (9L30)

Physical RAM 2048 MB

Model PowerMac3,6

Processor PowerPC G4x2 @ 1.50 GHz

Version 7455 (Apollo) v3.3

L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)

L2 Cache 256K @ 1.50 GHz

L3 Cache 2048K @ 250 MHz

Bus Frequency 167 MHz

3tb with ATA adapter on ATA 100 bus

Disk Test 49.90

Sequential 131.61

Uncached Write 143.39 88.04 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 142.96 80.89 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 97.21 28.45 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 162.96 81.90 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Random 30.79

Uncached Write 8.80 0.93 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 249.25 79.79 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 148.73 1.05 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 180.92 33.57 MB/sec [256K blocks]

3tb on SATA card

Disk Test 53.82

Sequential 134.98

Uncached Write 117.66 72.24 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 168.69 95.45 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 96.95 28.37 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 204.39 102.73 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Random 33.61

Uncached Write 9.69 1.03 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 275.48 88.19 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 146.49 1.04 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 186.03 34.52 MB/sec [256K blocks]

320gb ATA on ATA 100 bus

Disk Test 47.59

Sequential 84.72

Uncached Write 51.43 31.58 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 111.19 62.91 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 93.35 27.32 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 124.01 62.33 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Random 33.09

Uncached Write 11.22 1.19 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 72.99 23.37 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 91.92 0.65 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 139.32 25.85 MB/sec [256K blocks]

500gb SATA on SATA card

Disk Test 66.48

Sequential 134.37

Uncached Write 118.70 72.88 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 157.41 89.07 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 102.85 30.10 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 189.82 95.40 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Random 44.16

Uncached Write 14.47 1.53 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 190.56 61.01 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 105.88 0.75 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 148.03 27.47 MB/sec [256K blocks]

 

[Unknown_K]

Not too bad then.

 

[waynestewart]

I started wondering if the drives being in different formats and having different percentages of free space was affecting the scores. So since only the boot disk had data I didn’t have elsewhere, I formatted all the drives and after testing the 3tb,I copied the boot drive onto it and formatted it.

A bit different results off the freshly formatted drives

3tb with ide adapter on ATA 100 bus

Disk Test 55.82

Sequential 129.27

Uncached Write 146.59 90.00 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 143.48 81.18 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 90.42 26.46 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 164.14 82.50 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Random 35.59

Uncached Write 10.37 1.10 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 248.77 79.64 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 145.93 1.03 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 197.06 36.57 MB/sec [256K blocks]

3tb SATA on SATA card

Disk Test 55.64

Sequential 134.08

Uncached Write 118.98 73.05 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 168.15 95.14 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 97.57 28.55 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 191.17 96.08 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Random 35.10

Uncached Write 10.29 1.09 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 191.91 61.44 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 148.66 1.05 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 205.21 38.08 MB/sec [256K blocks]

320gb ide on ATA 100 bus

Disk Test 52.49

Sequential 126.93

Uncached Write 140.66 86.36 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 137.39 77.73 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 93.19 27.27 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 156.41 78.61 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Random 33.08

Uncached Write 10.68 1.13 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 95.97 30.72 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 95.82 0.68 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 155.65 28.88 MB/sec [256K blocks]

500gb SATA on SATA card

Disk Test 66.39

Sequential 127.44

Uncached Write 117.78 72.31 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 164.15 92.88 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 84.73 24.80 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 199.93 100.48 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Random 44.88

Uncached Write 14.73 1.56 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 188.29 60.28 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 108.89 0.77 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 148.24 27.51 MB/sec [256K blocks]

 

[jongleur]

....and here is a selection from my PowerMac QuickSilver 2002 on 10.5.8 Main Boot drive is an OWC 60GB SSD, and is still my main desktop machine.

Original 80GB on ATA100

Drive Type ST380021A ST380021A

Disk Test 40.37

500GB on SATA Controller

Drive Type ST3500820AS ST3500820AS

Disk Test 61.80

60GB SSD on SATA Controller

Drive Type: OWC Mercury Extreme Pro SSD

Disk Test 188.73

(Full XBench Drive results on my blog http://www.jongleur.co.uk/blogs/random-thoughts/how-old-is-retro/ )

 

[Cory5412]

Just out of curiosity, do you happen to know the rotational speeds on each of those drives? It's pretty interesting to me that a 500GB would bench faster than a 3TB, unless density is thrown off by platter counts or if the difference between a 7200RPM disk and a 5400RPM disk is really that pronounced.

It also surprises me a little bit that being on a SATA card offers no performance advantage for the 3TB disk. Is that a 150mb/s SATA card, 3gb/s or 6gb/s? Although even if it's a very early 150mb/s card, it should be able to get a bit more performance out of the SATA card.

If you're taking requests for benchmarks, and you have the opportunity, would you mind putting that 500GB SATA disk on the IDE bus to see if the 3TB/320GB disks are hitting the limit of ATA, or if that's not quite an issue with ATA/100 and ATA/133 yet.

Thank you for these numbers!

 

[waynestewart]

The SATA card I’m using is the Sonnet Tempo with the latest firmware update. I have 3 cards and they are all 1.5 GB/S. I have two revisions but get about the same results with both

The drives are all 7200 rpm Seagate drives.

The 3tb is a 6 GB/S drive and the 500gb is a 3 GB/S drive. They are both compatible with 1.5 GB/S interface but maybe the 3 GB/S drive is a hair more compatible. I tried a 1tb 6 GB/S drive. It tested about the same as the 3tb. I guess I should pull another 3 GB/S drive from somewhere and test that. I should also have a 1.5 GB/S drive or two

500gb on ATA 100bus

Disk Test 65.76

Sequential 127.43

Uncached Write 146.55 89.98 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 142.92 80.86 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 87.30 25.55 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 163.53 82.19 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Random 44.32

Uncached Write 14.33 1.52 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 208.72 66.82 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 106.34 0.75 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 158.61 29.43 MB/sec [256K blocks]

 

[waynestewart]

I had some time to kill waiting for the gas company people so I tried a couple more drives

320gb SATA drive on SATA card a 3gb/s drive

Disk Test 64.77

Sequential 124.50

Uncached Write 116.80 71.71 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 159.71 90.36 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 83.45 24.42 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 187.89 94.43 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Random 43.77

Uncached Write 14.47 1.53 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 188.65 60.39 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 107.51 0.76 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 130.25 24.17 MB/sec [256K blocks]

160gb Maxtor drive on SATA card 1.5 gb/s drive

Disk Test 73.54

Sequential 97.32

Uncached Write 101.18 62.12 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 102.96 58.26 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 79.15 23.16 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 112.71 56.65 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Random 59.09

Uncached Write 23.48 2.49 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 136.98 43.85 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 94.89 0.67 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 137.59 25.53 MB/sec [256K blocks]

160gb Maxtor drive on ATA 100 bus 1.5 gb/s drive

Disk Test 74.36

Sequential 100.90

Uncached Write 104.58 64.21 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 102.95 58.25 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 87.12 25.50 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 112.47 56.53 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Random 58.87

Uncached Write 23.28 2.46 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Write 135.62 43.42 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Uncached Read 95.84 0.68 MB/sec [4K blocks]

Uncached Read 139.35 25.86 MB/sec [256K blocks]

The Sonnet Tempo SATA card is a 1.5gb/s interface and it looks like it does better with a drive closer to it’s own interface speed.

The IDE to SATA adapter I have is a Hexin hxsp-0908. I can’t see much on it except that it’s an ATA133 interface

 

[Schmoburger]

Good info... almost seems worthy of a sticky were the decision mine.